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The three Adams threads are annoying and we can have a discussion about him in one thread.

LGR4GM

By LGR4GM
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Taro T Hall of Famer

Taro T

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We've worked the other 3 easy permutations of the subject, this is the last one we can come up with before just getting silly with things like "Adams may not be good, but the Sabres may still be good despite that" or "Adams is dreamy, but the Sabres still disappoint; wtf is going on."

So, this seems to be the thread for those that aren't certain that Adams is good or evil but are leaning towards evil and also leaning towards the Sabres being a disappointment once again because of that.

@Eleven, you're welcome.  😜

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GASabresIUFAN All Star

GASabresIUFAN

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52 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Still am of the opinion that Tokarski was brought in to be the 3rd goalie should they not be able to upgrade the backup position and the loser of the internal competition gets claimed on waivers.  Have way more faith in him than in Subban.

But if Tokarski is the regular backup, there will be a book on him and he will get exposed.  But filling in for a handful of games, he should be fine - just like he was when called into desperation duty in the past.

Tokarski played 29 games for us in 2021-22 and put up a 3.27 & .899 behind a worse D and worse team overall than UPL and Comrie played behind last season.  UPL gave us 33 games with a 3.58 & .892 while Comrie gave us in 19 games a 3.67 with an .886.  Frankly they all stink, but at least Tokar has 80+ games of NHL experience.

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Kristian First Liner

Kristian

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2 hours ago, Taro T said:

We've worked the other 3 easy permutations of the subject, this is the last one we can come up with before just getting silly with things like "Adams may not be good, but the Sabres may still be good despite that" or "Adams is dreamy, but the Sabres still disappoint; wtf is going on."

So, this seems to be the thread for those that aren't certain that Adams is good or evil but are leaning towards evil and also leaning towards the Sabres being a disappointment once again because of that.

@Eleven, you're welcome.  😜

I don’t know. I demand another thread to decide! 🤣

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nfreeman Hall of Famer

nfreeman

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2 hours ago, tom webster said:

I don’t think Quinn and Benson are even in the discussion and I do not think it would require 2 of the other 3. I’m not sure it would require any of the five. 

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

i always have to default of the most ever given up for a goalie being pick #9 and that was for a young but proven goalie expected to be your franchise #1 for years..

Quinn was pick 8 and has justified it so far. Savoie was pick 9 and held value. Some think Benson and Kulich are better than Savoie and Peterka is at a similar level.

I don' think any of them should be necessary to get any goalie, particularly one with a big contract, or the expectations of a big contract.

I think that none of Helle, Saros or Hart (and probably not Demko or Markstrom) was coming here without one of those 5 coming back (including this year's #1 as a proxy for Benson in any potential pre-draft trade).

Does either of you think the Sabres could've gotten/could get at present one of those goalies for Rosen or Östlund or a 2024 #1?

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tom webster First Liner

tom webster

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15 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I think that none of Helle, Saros or Hart (and probably not Demko or Markstrom) was coming here without one of those 5 coming back (including this year's #1 as a proxy for Benson in any potential pre-draft trade).

Does either of you think the Sabres could've gotten/could get at present one of those goalies for Rosen or Östlund or a 2024 #1?

Rosen & Östlund. You went from saying two of the top five to one of six and seven. 

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dudacek Hall of Famer

dudacek

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50 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I think that none of Helle, Saros or Hart (and probably not Demko or Markstrom) was coming here without one of those 5 coming back (including this year's #1 as a proxy for Benson in any potential pre-draft trade).

Does either of you think the Sabres could've gotten/could get at present one of those goalies for Rosen or Östlund or a 2024 #1?

Depends what the other team thinks of those pieces and how badly they are looking to sell.

Prospect valuations are all over the board.

I think Östlund is significantly better than Rosen, others disagree. Is Devon Levi a recent 7th round pick, or an NHL starter in the making? Are Cody Hodgson and Zach Kassian potential core pieces, or prospects their drafting team has developed serious doubts about? 

The Devils might flip Alexander Holtz for a goalie. I see him as a Rosen, others might see him as a Quinn.

Hellebuyck has a motivated seller. When he goes, it will be for a package, the best piece of which some will see as the equivalent of Rosen or Östlund.

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nfreeman Hall of Famer

nfreeman

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50 minutes ago, tom webster said:

Rosen & Östlund. You went from saying two of the top five to one of six and seven. 

Well, I asked about Rosen and Östlund because I don't think that price would've gotten it done, and I'm curious as to whether you do.

 

8 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Depends what the other team thinks of those pieces and how badly they are looking to sell.

Prospect valuations are all over the board.

I think Östlund is significantly better than Rosen, others disagree. Is Devon Levi a recent 7th round pick, or an NHL starter in the making? Are Cody Hodgson and Zach Kassian potential core pieces, or prospects their drafting team has developed serious doubts about? 

The Devils might flip Alexander Holtz for a goalie. I see him as a Rosen, others might see him as a Quinn.

Hellebuyck has a motivated seller. When he goes, it will be for a package, the best piece of which some will see as the equivalent of Rosen or Östlund.

I agree that it depends largely on the other team.

I think that Nashville doesn't need to trade Saros, that they rightly see him as a franchise goalie, and that they would have zero interest in trading him to the Sabres without getting at least one of those top 5 (Quinn, JJP, Savoie, Kulich and Benson).  I think Philly feels pretty much the same way about Hart.

I think that the Canadian teams are under a ton of pressure at all times and that each GM would feel like he could not present a deal to his owners/fans/media in which he parts with his franchise goalie and wasn't able to get more from the Sabres than the Sabres' #6 or #7 prospect.  (Although I think it's fairly likely that you're right about Winnipeg ultimately not getting more than an Östlund/Rosen level prospect for Helle.)

I will add that none of this IMHO excuses KA from not upgrading the goaltending this summer (or last summer or the previous summer).  It's a problem and he's accountable for not fixing it.  My point is simply that I think the price for the big-name goalies is too high, and I'm fine with KA not paying it.

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That Aud Smell Hall of Famer

That Aud Smell

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  In honour of the former thread entitled To Adams, or not to Adams: that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The successes and failures of our own prospects, Or to use assets to patch a sea of positional troubles, And by acquisition end them?

4 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

Now is the summer of our discontent

Made glorious winter by this ice of Adams.

 

1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said:

Two hard! What edge through yon' neutral zone skates?
This is the east, and Tage Thompson is the sun.
Arise, fair sun, and kill the damnéd Bruins.

 

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... All Star

...

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9 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

  In honour of the former thread entitled To Adams, or not to Adams: that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The successes and failures of our own prospects, Or to use assets to patch a sea of positional troubles, And by acquisition end them?

Alack, I am afraid Sabres fans have awaked,

And the roster 'tis not done. The attempt and not the deed

Confounds us. 

~ MacKevyn

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Marvin First Liner

Marvin

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16 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

  In honour of the former thread entitled To Adams, or not to Adams: that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The successes and failures of our own prospects, Or to use assets to patch a sea of positional troubles, And by acquisition end them?

 

 

That was the thread title that should have been kept.  If possible, please fix it.

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Huckleberry All Star

Huckleberry

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6 hours ago, nfreeman said:

I think that none of Helle, Saros or Hart (and probably not Demko or Markstrom) was coming here without one of those 5 coming back (including this year's #1 as a proxy for Benson in any potential pre-draft trade).

Does either of you think the Sabres could've gotten/could get at present one of those goalies for Rosen or Östlund or a 2024 #1?

In my mind he is as good as Savoie and Kulich right now which deem most untouchable, so yeah Östlund rosen and 2024 1st should get helle.   Might point is the jets will ask for Levi as part of the deal and they you want Helle locked up 7 more years.  

Hart Is at the same level as Comrie at this moment, with just more games played.    Demko and Marktstrom are gambles seeing the last season they played.

So only Saros and Helle would deserve a good prospect or  2 back if signed longterm.   I keep saying the goalie market has been a sellers market for years now and a lot of teams looking for a good fit in net.  

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