The three Adams threads are annoying and we can have a discussion about him in one thread.

[pi2000]

He's setting this franchise up for long term success.

They're very close to making the playoffs, it's gonna come down to health and goaltending as they just don't have the scoring depth yet but it's coming.

 

[Dr. Who]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

Or I just read the title of one thread without reading the other.

You're bored this summer aren't you? 

Saw an opportunity for a joke that included quantum physics and took it. 

[Thorny]

17 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

I feel like you are struggling with the concept of these threads. OTOH, you've given voice to ambivalence with a low hum of perduring disgruntlement in an intelligent manner. OTOH, you've failed to grasp the polar-dichotomy of point-counterpoint represented by two diverse threads of this particular nature. In reality, you want to occupy an ambiguous quantum state between two universal polarities, which places you high on the Heisenberg scale with a relatively strong undercurrent of Schrödinger syndrome.

Bazinga

[Thorny]

9 hours ago, SwampD said:

I’m pretty sure that both sides of thing can agree that this is the make or break year. No playoffs, you gotta go.

I get lumped into stormcloud sometimes so speaking on behalf of anyone I represent: I’m not firing KA if we miss. Regardless of how. 

If we miss again the following year: he should be fired, also regardless of how. If you are the GM for 5 years and can’t get in the playoffs once, you are a poor GM. I don’t care how good you look relative to the bums we’ve had: he’d be definitively below league average if we can’t make the dance 50% of teams make, once in 5 years. Pick a better plan if that’s the case, jeepers sakes. 

Edited August 6, 2023 by Thorny

[Thorny]

11 hours ago, Night Train said:

Hair. He's going bald and well into my 60's, I still have a full head of hair. I see baldness as a sign of nerves and weakness. 

“Going” bald lol right 

[Thorny]

10 hours ago, Eleven said:

Seriously, he's had three seasons and nearly four off-seasons to straighten out the goaltending situation.  That's his job.  Other GMs seem to have managed.  If Levi doesn't work out, Adams has to go.

preach 

[Thorny]

8 hours ago, matter2003 said:

 

So a guy that is good enough to start 78 games as a 2nd pair Dman on the best regular season team of all time isn't good enough for us?

 

Now I've heard it all.

The very very best teams and the very very worst teams are exactly the spots most likely to find players committing outlier statistics to record 

at least relative to the role we MAY ask of them, when extrapolating the numbers

7 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

POTY. It's human nature. He knows he's lucky to be a GM and he sees he's fallen softly into a lovely meadow of tall grass and wildflowers. He's got runway and he's gonn use it. Before I throw in another metaphor, yes I'm sure he also believes what he's doing is justifiable and Dudacek's fantasy lineup in 2027 could be good.

I’m losing titles at a Ric Flair rate 

Edited August 7, 2023 by Thorny

[7+6=13]

He picked the right coach.  He was right about the young prospects needing to play to develop and they have.  He's turned the team into a respected NHL offense.  He likely won the Risto, Rhino and Eichel trades.  He stock piled picks and rebuilt the cabinet with legitimate prospects.   We've grown every year in pts.  

He's attempting to take care of the defense and specials.  The majority of our core, likely hasn't reached their peak. 

I would guess that more than half of us didn't think Ullmark was the answer.  He believes the answer is Levi.

 

Despite all these excellent things he's done,  we're just regurgitating the no playoff appearances and goaltending unsolved narrative.   IMO, he's earned the benefit of the doubt to at least see how this season goes with the defense and goaltending.  After all,  he's been right more than he's been wrong.

 

 

 

Edited August 7, 2023 by 7+6=13

[Scottysabres]

I like KA, he has a plan, he has not deviated from the plan. The plan has improved the team. Don't alter the plan, the plan has washed away all that was, it has improved what is, it has set up the team nicely in to the foreseeable future. Be the plan.

[Thorny]

Technically Botterill hired Granato unless I’m mistaken. IIRC Adams retrained Krueger before firing him and promoting Granato. So good job there in the end 

Edited August 7, 2023 by Thorny

[PASabreFan]

I'm kinda surprised we haven't had more discussions (or any?) about the value of individual players improving year to year vs. the value of collective (team) growth. In my mind one playoff round trumps one year of development during a regular season. WHEN the Sabres make the playoffs, you know what the major storyline is going to be: do these guys know how to play in the postseason. That's really why I think if I'm KA I risk losing some trades, giving up some of the future to get this team into the postseason next spring.

[Scottysabres]

I have nothing bad to say about KA. Hell, he even came in a full 4 minutes ahead of schedule on my door dash order, the pizza pucks were still hot.

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

I'm kinda surprised we haven't had more discussions (or any?) about the value of individual players improving year to year vs. the value of collective (team) growth. In my mind one playoff round trumps one year of development during a regular season. WHEN the Sabres make the playoffs, you know what the major storyline is going to be: do these guys know how to play in the postseason. That's really why I think if I'm KA I risk losing some trades, giving up some of the future to get this team into the postseason next spring.

I agree with this, even though I think this team can make the playoffs as currently constructed.

Here’s why, and this fits this thread very well and doesn’t get talked about enough as we retread the same old worn-out ground about needing another goalie, or what a great prospect pool we have.

Rasmus Dahlin is among the best defenceman in the NHL and is certainly the best defenceman ever to wear blue and gold. He has first-tier talent, first-tier size and first-tier compete. He is a stud and every inch capable of being the lead dog on a Stanley Cup-winning blueline.

Tage Thompson may or may not be a top 10 centre given the holes in his defensive game, but he is an absolute top 10 game-breaker, in terms of being a player who can create highlight reel goals on his own. McDavid is without parallel of course, but who else in the league combines those one-on-one moves with that absolute bomb of a shot the way Tage does? Not many. Never mind the physical unicorn that he is. Eichel, Mogilny, Lafontaine, Martin, Perreault… who else in franchise history has shown the level of offensive talent we saw last year?

And how good is Alex Tuch? 6’4” 220 pounds, sees the ice well, deceptive shot, impressive forechecker, impressive backchecker, an all-around all-situations player and an absolute freight train on the rush. Great dude who sets a tone and represents the franchise and the city the way you want it represented. Every intangible you could ask for AND he was the 5th highest points/game Right Wing in the league last year.

These guys aren’t “potential” or “projections”, they are - right here, right now - the best D/C/W trio this franchise has had in at least a generation.

[thewookie1]

9 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

I'm kinda surprised we haven't had more discussions (or any?) about the value of individual players improving year to year vs. the value of collective (team) growth. In my mind one playoff round trumps one year of development during a regular season. WHEN the Sabres make the playoffs, you know what the major storyline is going to be: do these guys know how to play in the postseason. That's really why I think if I'm KA I risk losing some trades, giving up some of the future to get this team into the postseason next spring.

I agree up to a point; essentially I won't trade Savoie/Kulich/Benson for a rental.

But I certainly agree with the idea they need playoff development now.

[Pimlach]

18 hours ago, Norcal said:

I love the direction the team has taken since Adams came to the helm. 

The pace of the rebuild is debatable imo.

There's no question the Sabres are better off today than they were under previous regimes.

The next step is playoff success.

If what Adams has built can sustain some level of playoff success this season and build towards contention in the coming seasons then he'll prove worthy of sticking around a few more years to oversee that. 

 

The next step is just making the playoffs.  If they win a round that is gravy. 

[tom webster]

Like most things in life, things are rarely black and white.

Edited August 7, 2023 by tom webster

[tom webster]

Just now, tom webster said:

Like most things in life, things are rarely black and white.

I like Adams. I think he’s done terrific things and I’m more optimistic about the Sabres then I’ve been in a long time. 
 

I’m also very disappointed in his failure to address the goaltending situation and I believe a veteran center to play between KO and Z is called for.

I also believe he still may do  something and that there are people he relies on who believe the same thing. I am 100% sure that their private assessment of UPL is considerably lower then their public posture and that gives me hope that something will happen before camp,

I also believe he failed to weaponize cap space when he had the opportunity and he misread the Ullmark situation.

Ultimately though, the good far outweigh the bad, at least in my opinion.

[SwampD]

These are confusing times.

[Marvin]

This is the thread I was looking for, but these are not the droids that you are looking for.

Edited August 7, 2023 by Marvin

[PASabreFan]

8 hours ago, dudacek said:

I agree with this, even though I think this team can make the playoffs as currently constructed.

Here’s why, and this fits this thread very well and doesn’t get talked about enough as we retread the same old worn-out ground about needing another goalie, or what a great prospect pool we have.

Rasmus Dahlin is among the best defenceman in the NHL and is certainly the best defenceman ever to wear blue and gold. He has first-tier talent, first-tier size and first-tier compete. He is a stud and every inch capable of being the lead dog on a Stanley Cup-winning blueline.

Tage Thompson may or may not be a top 10 centre given the holes in his defensive game, but he is an absolute top 10 game-breaker, in terms of being a player who can create highlight reel goals on his own. McDavid is without parallel of course, but who else in the league combines those one-on-one moves with that absolute bomb of a shot the way Tage does? Not many. Never mind the physical unicorn that he is. Eichel, Mogilny, Lafontaine, Martin, Perreault… who else in franchise history has shown the level of offensive talent we saw last year?

And how good is Alex Tuch? 6’4” 220 pounds, sees the ice well, deceptive shot, impressive forechecker, impressive backchecker, an all-around all-situations player and an absolute freight train on the rush. Great dude who sets a tone and represents the franchise and the city the way you want it represented. Every intangible you could ask for AND he was the 5th highest points/game Right Wing in the league last year.

These guys aren’t “potential” or “projections”, they are - right here, right now - the best D/C/W trio this franchise has had in at least a generation.

And they did not lead the team into the playoffs.

[GASabresIUFAN]

KA pros and cons

Pros:  

1. Better Culture

2. Team is overall improved

3. Better prospect pipeline

4. Better drafting

5. Better player development

6. Forward depth

7. He did a great job getting value for the old core of Eichel, Reinhart, and Ristolainen.

8. Has really grown into the role.

Neutral:

1.  The majority of his moves following the dismantling of the old core have been very moneypuck oriented with varying degrees of success.  They have been short-term on contracts (1-3 years) and low-cost in terms of cap $ and assets.  Decent to Good: Greenway for a 2nd, Jost on waivers, Lyubushkin for 2 years, and Anderson.  Bad: Bloom for Stillman, Comrie for 2 years, Dell, and Butcher. 

Clifton and Johnson fit this philosophy as well.  Hopefully, both will be good. 

Cons:

1.  We still aren't a playoff team

2. Goaltending is still a complete unknown.

3. Finally addressed defensive depth, one year late IMHO, and we still don't know if the upgrades are sufficient.

4. Failed to make the necessary moves last deadline to get the team over the top and into the playoffs.

5. Team still can't win a faceoff and we need a veteran center.

6. Honestly seems afraid to use significant pipeline assets to upgrade the team even when there is a glaring roster hole.

7.  Not sure his off-season moves will dramatically improve one of the worst PK's in the NHL.

8.  KA's First year as GM was G-D awful.

Ultimately he is going to be judged this season by the D acquisitions and the failure to bring in a veteran goalie.  If Levi excels and the 2 new D work and the team makes the playoffs, people will be posting here what a great job he did backfilling the D and being patient with the goaltending.  If Levi struggles, Clifton can't play up, Johnson is not an upgrade over Bush and/or Joki, and the team again fails to make the playoffs, people will post that KA failed.  History says the 21-year-old goalies struggle in the NHL, but not always and we all know what a crap shoot UFAs can be.  

Personally, I love the risk KA has taken on Johnson and Clifton and hate the risk he is taking by not bringing in a real veteran to replace UPL and Comrie.  The goaltending failure looks like a completely unnecessary risk.

Edited August 7, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, tom webster said:

I like Adams. I think he’s done terrific things and I’m more optimistic about the Sabres then I’ve been in a long time. 
 

I’m also very disappointed in his failure to address the goaltending situation and I believe a veteran center to play between KO and Z is called for.

I also believe he still may do  something and that there are people he relies on who believe the same thing. I am 100% sure that their private assessment of UPL is considerably lower then their public posture and that gives me hope that something will happen before camp,

I also believe he failed to weaponize cap space when he had the opportunity and he misread the Ullmark situation.

Ultimately though, the good far outweigh the bad, at least in my opinion.

Just curious. Why do you say that the organization's assessment of UPL is lower than their public posture? I take the opposite view. If it had a low expectation for UPL, the GM would have been more aggressive in the offseason to address the position. It's still the offseason so there's time to bring in another goalie. I just don't see it happening. My sense is that Levi and UPL are going to be our goalie tandem when the season starts. 

[Buffalonill]

He can build the "greatest team" with great Culture etc. 

But until the team Actually succeeds makes the playoffs and takes over the eastern conference etc.

Team has to prove it first before I have any believe 

 

Edited August 7, 2023 by Buffalonill

[tom webster]

Just now, JohnC said:

Just curious. Why do you say that the organization's assessment of UPL is lower than their public posture? I take the opposite view. If it had a low expectation for UPL, the GM would have been more aggressive in the offseason to address the position. It's still the offseason so there's time to bring in another goalie. I just don't see it happening. My sense is that Levi and UPL are going to be our goalie tandem when the season starts. 

Their internal numbers show that Comrie was actually better. They also confirm that UPL has been in the bottom tier of goaltenders in whatever league he’s been in for most of his career.

I understand that some are skeptical and I can’t provide any substantive proof.

It also doesn’t mean he can’t beat the odds and prove me wrong.

This isn’t an exact science which is one of the main reasons sports can be fun. It’s also one of the worst parts of the internet. When I was wrong before, the only proof was a bunch of drunk and/or high friends and strangers in bars. Now my mistakes are saved for eternity.
 

And yes, it’s exactly why I’m disappointed they haven’t been more aggressive. My concern with Adams is two fold. He seems to be too enamored with his prospects and he did so well waiting out Vegas he thinks he will have the same success acquiring a goaltender.

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, tom webster said:

Their internal numbers show that Comrie was actually better. They also confirm that UPL has been in the bottom tier of goaltenders in whatever league he’s been in for most of his career.

I understand that some are skeptical and I can’t provide any substantive proof.

It also doesn’t mean he can’t beat the odds and prove me wrong.

This isn’t an exact science which is one of the main reasons sports can be fun. It’s also one of the worst parts of the internet. When I was wrong before, the only proof was a bunch of drunk and/or high friends and strangers in bars. Now my mistakes are saved for eternity.
 

And yes, it’s exactly why I’m disappointed they haven’t been more aggressive. My concern with Adams is two fold. He seems to be too enamored with his prospects and he did so well waiting out Vegas he thinks he will have the same success acquiring a goaltender.

We'll just have to wait to see what will happen on the goalie front. On the other hand, I do agree with you that the GM misread and mishandled the Ullmark situation. If he could have retained him, the Sabres would have been a playoff team last year and our current prospects would be more solidified.