Trade: Ryan O'Reilly to St Louis Blues

[Doohickie]

Increased competition is one benefit, yeah, but I also see them providing stability and mentoring the young guys.  Assuming Reino and Mitts will be our 2C and 3C at some point, they skate on a line with the newly acquired vets and benefit from their tutelage.  Reino has to re-acclimate to C, and Casey has to learn the NHL-level game at C.  I see Sopotka and Berglund sliding up and down the bottom 9 depth chart, and back and forth between C and LW depending on HCPH's needs for a given game.  I think both these guys will be very valuable in the coming year, and eventually they will settle in as 3rd or 4th line guys as the youth movement takes over.

[pi2000]

7 hours ago, nfreeman said:

 

No. Eichel missed 21 games, which is about a quarter of the season.  They went 7-9-5 without him and 26-28-7 with him.  And, on Feb. 18, they were 26-23-10 and on the fringes of the playoff picture -- and then fell off the table, losing 8 out of 9 (and 10 out of 12), and going 7-14-2 to finish the season. 

 

A well-coached team doesn't go to pieces like that.

 

 

 

OTOH, I can totally see the first paragraph being an accurate theory of how it played out, and you are right that Bylsma got more wins out of the team overall than Phil has so far.

 

But like someone mentioned, the fact that Phil might not have the right stuff doesn't mean that DDB did have it.

All good points. It just felt like half the season, and he wasn't 100% at any point even after he came back. That injury, the timing of it, really damaged that team mentally... so much hype and promise going into the season, then Zemgus decides to it all up. I often wonder if things would've played out differently had he not been injured.

I'm not saying DDB was going to lead them to a Cup, but he got pretty much everything he could out of that team, guys like O'Reilly and Eichel thrived and most played up to their potential.

Just because they stumbled down the stretch doesn't mean he was bum.

[Rasmus_]

It will be a win if we can some how move Berglund with other assets for an upgraded piece as a salary component.  On WGR, Jeremy White brought up 1st, 2nd Berglund and Nylander for Skinner.  I think I could be okay with this as Skinner provides speed on the wing, addition by subtraction and to be honest the fact that Nylander didn't skate at the camp and questions being dodged around him, proves he's out of favor.  He'll be traded by the deadline IMO. 

[Weave]

7 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Increased competition is one benefit, yeah, but I also see them providing stability and mentoring the young guys.  Assuming Reino and Mitts will be our 2C and 3C at some point, they skate on a line with the newly acquired vets and benefit from their tutelage.  Reino has to re-acclimate to C, and Casey has to learn the NHL-level game at C.  I see Sopotka and Berglund sliding up and down the bottom 9 depth chart, and back and forth between C and LW depending on HCPH's needs for a given game.  I think both these guys will be very valuable in the coming year, and eventually they will settle in as 3rd or 4th line guys as the youth movement takes over.

Jack and Sam needed needed this mentoring three years ago.  I'm glad that JBots recognized the need and got a bunch of vets in here for Casey and Rasmus.  Hopefully they are more accepting of the mentoring than Jack and Sam were.

[Rasmus_]

3 minutes ago, We've said:

Jack and Sam needed needed this mentoring three years ago.  I'm glad that JBots recognized the need and got a bunch of vets in here for Casey and Rasmus.  Hopefully they are more accepting of the mentoring than Jack and Sam were.

They can receive mentoring from Sobotka, Hutton and others in the room? 

[Weave]

6 minutes ago, TheCerebral1 said:

They can receive mentoring from Sobotka, Hutton and others in the room? 

It's a daring and unconventional concept for sure.

[Doohickie]

10 minutes ago, Weave said:

Jack and Sam needed needed this mentoring three years ago.  I'm glad that JBots recognized the need and got a bunch of vets in here for Casey and Rasmus.  Hopefully they are more accepting of the mentoring than Jack and Sam were.

I think ROR was intended to be that mentor in the XGMTM scheme.  It turned out he wasn't that guy. 

9 minutes ago, TheCerebral1 said:

They can receive mentoring from Sobotka, Hutton and others in the room? 

Don't forget Scandella.

[Weave]

20 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

I think ROR was intended to be that mentor in the XGMTM scheme.  It turned out he wasn't that guy. 

Don't forget Scandella.

And Gionta.  And Gorges.  It didn't take.  For all the flack Gio took, the way things have trickled out since the ROR trade it is pretty apparent now that Jack was just not accepting of the mentoring.

 

There are as many vets as kids in the room now.  Hopefully this works better.

[Rasmus_]

24 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

I think ROR was intended to be that mentor in the XGMTM scheme.  It turned out he wasn't that guy. 

Don't forget Scandella.

Absolutely, Scandella is the right sort of mentor for this group.  The next pragmatic cast off to go should be Bogosian ?

[Doohickie]

22 minutes ago, TheCerebral1 said:

The next pragmatic cast off to go should be Bogosian ?

I agree, but I'm willing to let him start the season and see how he does.  With any luck he'll be back on IR by Halloween.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

I think ROR was intended to be that mentor in the XGMTM scheme.  It turned out he wasn't that guy.

Don't forget Scandella.

It does seem that the mentoring / big brother capabilities of the O'Reilly brothers was overrated by Murray at a minimum.

Would be cool to sit & have a beer w/ their foster siblings.  Probably some intersting stories about growing up w/ them.

 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

And Gionta.  And Gorges.  It didn't take.  For all the flack Gio took, the way things have trickled out since the ROR trade it is pretty apparent now that Jack was just not accepting of the mentoring.

 

There are as many vets as kids in the room now.  Hopefully this works better.

 

Evander Kane disagrees

[7+6=13]

Bylsma was definitely the better coach - for the team we had.  Dump and chase all game long and sit back on defense.  It produced more because it better suites the players we had.  JBot and Housley have a North and South, puck possession philosophy which is the exact opposite of the talent we had the last several years.  

 

The personnel will be changed out until that system can be realized.  It's part of why ROR had to go.   

[inkman]

I've made my peace with it. Let's see how the new pieces fit. Thompson sounds like something we don't really have in the system and the other guys will push crappier players down the lineup. (Larsson, Girgs) 

[LGR4GM]

38 minutes ago, inkman said:

I've made my peace with it. Let's see how the new pieces fit. Thompson sounds like something we don't really have in the system and the other guys will push crappier players down the lineup. (Larsson, Girgs) 

If Tage has gotten quicker and more agile on skates it can work. Time will tell. 

[erickompositör72]

1 hour ago, Skurk Liger said:

If Tage has gotten quicker and more agile on skates it can work. Time will tell. 

Or even if he just bulks up and learns how to throw his weight around. Perhaps a net-front presence who can also snipe?

Could make for an intriguing PP cycle. Someone other than Eichel who has a deadly one-timer, and can also park in front of the net

Edited July 4, 2018 by erickompositör72

[LTS]

1 minute ago, erickompositör72 said:

Or even if he just bulks up and learns how to throw his weight around. Perhaps a net-front presence who can also snipe? 

Honestly.. that's almost all I care about.  If his shot can routinely put the puck in the back of the net I will be happy.  There are players who will get the puck to him.

[Broken Ankles]

5 hours ago, TheCerebral1 said:

It will be a win if we can some how move Berglund with other assets for an upgraded piece as a salary component.  On WGR, Jeremy White brought up 1st, 2nd Berglund and Nylander for Skinner.  I think I could be okay with this as Skinner provides speed on the wing, addition by subtraction and to be honest the fact that Nylander didn't skate at the camp and questions being dodged around him, proves he's out of favor.  He'll be traded by the deadline IMO. 

I like most of what Jeremy says, however this idea is shite.   The Sabres are not trading for a soon to be UFA to serve as mentor.   The inherent value of a UFA is a cap friendly value and a win now mentality you need for a playoff run.   There is a reason why no bottom 5 team ever signs these players (until Murray did with ROR).  It makes no sense to waste assets for player only to overpay in the future if you are willing to resign them.   The O’Reilly signing clearly made us a better team as evidenced in that seasons record, but it was not going to elevate us to a playoff position.  In hindsight had the Sabres waited one year, controlled those assets they moved, realized a higher draft selection than 8, then overpaid after he became a UFA they might have secured a winger like Laine or Tkachuk instead of Nylander whom you are recommending we give away with a first or a second.   But Murray  did make this horrible trade and JBotts will not.   He will accept the results from this season and it may result in a top 5 pick.  And the draft capital will be used as intended, not to accelerate the rebuild with pending UFA’s.   Its clear that some of are still in the denial phase of this loss.  Acceptance is step 5 and can take an eternity for some.  Remember, those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.  Let’s choose to remember Tim’s mistakes and move towards depression then acceptance.

[Neo]

Santayana and Kubler Ross  in your first post .. gotta respect that.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

9 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said:

I like most of what Jeremy says, however this idea is shite.   The Sabres are not trading for a soon to be UFA to serve as mentor.   The inherent value of a UFA is a cap friendly value and a win now mentality you need for a playoff run.   There is a reason why no bottom 5 team ever signs these players (until Murray did with ROR).  It makes no sense to waste assets for player only to overpay in the future if you are willing to resign them.   The O’Reilly signing clearly made us a better team as evidenced in that seasons record, but it was not going to elevate us to a playoff position.  In hindsight had the Sabres waited one year, controlled those assets they moved, realized a higher draft selection than 8, then overpaid after he became a UFA they might have secured a winger like Laine or Tkachuk instead of Nylander whom you are recommending we give away with a first or a second.   But Murray  did make this horrible trade and JBotts will not.   He will accept the results from this season and it may result in a top 5 pick.  And the draft capital will be used as intended, not to accelerate the rebuild with pending UFA’s.   Its clear that some of are still in the denial phase of this loss.  Acceptance is step 5 and can take an eternity for some.  Remember, those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.  Let’s choose to remember Tim’s mistakes and move towards depression then acceptance.

Welcome!!

I hope you are not the inevitable return of Yuri.

?

 

[JJFIVEOH]

Gionta and O'Reilly out because they weren't good enough leadership................ does anybody think Eichel might be the problem?

He's a great talent, but the kid needs to grow up and the team needs to realize you need to build around veterans, not spoiled young talent. 

 

 

[Eleven]

22 minutes ago, JJFIVEOH said:

Gionta and O'Reilly out because they weren't good enough leadership................ does anybody think Eichel might be the problem?

He's a great talent, but the kid needs to grow up and the team needs to realize you need to build around veterans, not spoiled young talent. 

What, other than a video of him chugging a beer in college, leads to the conclusion that he "needs to grow up" or is "spoiled young talent"?  Video of him riding on a tandem bike with Reinhart?

Edited July 4, 2018 by Eleven

[thewookie1]

20 minutes ago, JJFIVEOH said:

Gionta and O'Reilly out because they weren't good enough leadership................ does anybody think Eichel might be the problem?

He's a great talent, but the kid needs to grow up and the team needs to realize you need to build around veterans, not spoiled young talent. 

 

 

He likely has had some problems in the past but I do feel he's likely maturing based on his changes in demeanor and behavior since his rookie season. 

Gionta was put in an unwinnable situation from the start; GMTM needed more seasoned vets to help support Gionta instead of relying on him and Gorges to effectively lead everyone. Some people gravitate to different leadership styles, and Gorges and Gionta seemed to be likely to similar to reach players who didn't mesh with their style. Legwand was likely the only player, we inadvertently acquired, who helped spread that roll out a bit. 

GMTM needed more Cup winners and playoff experience in the locker room, 1 Cup Ring on the captain from 12 years prior might not hold the same intrigue as a more recent winner the kids personally watched on TV. They likely respected Gionta but he was just 1 guy.

[Weave]

55 minutes ago, JJFIVEOH said:

Gionta and O'Reilly out because they weren't good enough leadership................ does anybody think Eichel might be the problem?

He's a great talent, but the kid needs to grow up and the team needs to realize you need to build around veterans, not spoiled young talent. 

 

 

 

I think Eichel was the problem, not Gio or Gorges.  And I've said as much in the past.  Note the tense of that sentence though.  Was.  I think we saw the beginnings of change in Jack during the last half of the season.  Enough so that I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt to start the season.  Not enough benefit of the doubt to call for him to be captain, but enough to give him some time before making judgement again.

 

And look at the vets on the roster now.  Half the D is veteran, and a good percentage of the forwards are as well.  I think we're there.  Better late than never.

Edited July 4, 2018 by Weave

[Brawndo]

5 minutes ago, Weave said:

 

I think Eichel was the problem, not Gio or Gorges.  And I've said as much in the past.  Note the tense of that sentence though.  Was.  I think we saw the beginnings of change in Jack during the last half of the season.  Enough so that I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt to start the season.  Not enough benefit of the doubt to call for him to be captain, but enough to give him some time before making judgement again.

 

And look at the vets on the roster now.  Half the D is veteran, and a good percentage of the forwards are as well.  I think we're there.  Better late than never.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Even the media such as Hamilton and Harrington noticed a large difference in Eichel Demeanor and Maturity Level over the last portion of the season.

 

In regards to Skinner, I know someone who spends a lot of time in the Carolina Lockerroom. He mentioned he is a good player but is a quiet introvert in the Room, not exactly the veteran leadership they would be looking for, one would think.