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Kane traded to San Jose for a Cond. ‘19 1st, Dan O’ Regan and Conditional 4th

Brawndo

By Brawndo
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LTS First Liner

LTS

Posted
Posted

Interesting that SJ didn't propose a contract as part of trade and then a condition of trade is they must sign him to give up a 1st --- I'll bet 99% chance Kane is rental and signs elsewhere

 

Hate this trade

 

There had to be more value out there, if not today, month ago

 

Rookie GM gets played

 

I can't see it any other way

 

 

Don't confuse can't with won't.

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Billznut Third Liner

Billznut

Posted
Posted

This Sabres team is maybe the worst in team history for a variety of reasons. And definitely either the worst or second worst in the NHL. Not shocked one bit that other GMs want nothing to do with our players and gave us terrible value on the Kane trade. Botterill is stuck with this mess. Good luck cleaning it up.

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sabills Second Liner

sabills

Posted
Posted

Has JB done anything good as the GM?

 

Time to question if he was ever up to the challenge

 

 

Oh christ. 

 

Its at least halfway to a fair question I think. Dude has had essentially a full season now; the roster isn't going to change before the league year ends at this point, and really no progress has been made. This team needs a lot of help, and he has brought in...what. Scandella is pretty good, I guess. Thats it, though. I'm not saying we should judge him solely by this year, or that he won't succeed in the long run. but if we assume a GM's job is safe for about 3 years, he's a third of the way through and we've seen no improvement.

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Randall Flagg Hall of Famer

Randall Flagg

Posted
Posted

Yeah I liked that deal actually.

 

He is 1 - 1 now. I still feel that he is watching this ###### show and doing nothing about it

My number one problem with him is watching the first couple months and only addressing it with Scott Wilson, when names better than Nolan/Griffith/Pominville got waived/moved for cheap. 

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dudacek Hall of Famer

dudacek

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Posted

Maybe all the internet loudmouths who said Kane was a cancer and we would be lucky to get a 2nd were right and Botterill did a helluva job.

 

A lot of us pointed to the fact that Jack and Sam liked Evander as evidence that he wasn’t a bad guy.

Maybe his influence had a larger rule in what we have here than we’d care to admit.

Maybe this is what this team needs.

 

Value is set by what the highest bidder is willing to pay.

We now know what his value is around the league.

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Scottysabres First Liner

Scottysabres

Posted
Posted

For those that are in riot mode over the return, it would be wise to remember that JBots has an enormous task ahead of him. And while this appears to be a failure, the responsibility for it being so rests with Tim "0 given" Murray and Evander Kane himself.

 

We are now moving on from one of the franchises larger mistakes. Lets look forward to better days ahead.

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Trettioåtta Second Liner

Trettioåtta

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Its at least halfway to a fair question I think. Dude has had essentially a full season now; the roster isn't going to change before the league year ends at this point, and really no progress has been made. This team needs a lot of help, and he has brought in...what. Scandella is pretty good, I guess. Thats it, though. I'm not saying we should judge him solely by this year, or that he won't succeed in the long run. but if we assume a GM's job is safe for about 3 years, he's a third of the way through and we've seen no improvement.

 

Like a 20 point drop in performance, not just no improvement

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Crusader1969 First Liner

Crusader1969

Posted
Posted

this is why the Sabres are bottom feeders and the main reason is depth:

 

Updated trade from the Jets

 

2019 2nd round 

2019 4th round

Zack Bogosian

the rights to Jason Kasdorf

and 2 1/2 years of Kane playing on a losing team

 

 

To Jets:

Drew Stafford

Tyler Myers

Joel Armia

Brendan Lemieux

Jack Roslovic

 

wow!

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Randall Flagg Hall of Famer

Randall Flagg

Posted
Posted

I'm trying to see it that way, praying I'm wrong, help me out, how is this a good trade ?

It's never a GOOD trade when you're in last place dealing a guy you traded more for to be here with a good team, only to have it fail miserably and have him on his way out in the offseason so you have to get something for him. 

 

But it's fine all things considered. There was always a question even among the angriest posters in this thread of whether or not GMs will bite with his locker room/ off ice issues in the past, and people are just upset because the answer to that question was not the one we wanted.

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LTS First Liner

LTS

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Posted

I'm trying to see it that way, praying I'm wrong, help me out, how is this a good trade ?

 

How do any of us have enough information to pass judgment on this trade?  Superficially it can appear one way.  Again, we are not in the business, so we don't know.  

 

It's not like information about moves and trades have not come out days, weeks, months, or even years later that make you rethink why something happened.  So why get bent over something within 30 minutes of it happening as if that's all it will ever be?

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SDS All Star

SDS

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Posted

Sure.  There was value in keeping his rights until July 1 (and possibly re-signing him), and there was value in not letting the rest of the league know that you're not able to play poker with the grownups yet.

 

What do you think the reaction would have been if they didn't trade him today at all? There's a possibility his value could have been higher this summer by trading his negotiating rights, but there is also the possibility he would have gone for nothing. As we saw today - his value on 2/26/2018 was  :sick: .

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nfreeman Hall of Famer

nfreeman

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That doesn't mean he should have taken this one.  There is value to letting the league know you won't be had.  Considerable value, IMO.

 

 

I think they would've looked much worse -- as in a bunch of bozos -- if they hadn't traded him today and then he sailed off on July 1.

 

Can someone please explain to me why Jbot should have walked away from this deal if this was the best one he could get?  I'm curious because I really can't think of a good reason.

 

This.

 

You turned a good player into nothing. A 2nd rd pick in 2019 has about a 30% chance of playlist 100 games in the NHL and about a 5% chance of being a top 6 player. A 4th pick in 2020, if we even get that pick, has about a 11% chance of making the NHL. Jacks old BU buddy is a JAG at best. We have 15 forwards just like him. Bottom line: we literally got almost nothing for Kane.

 

Show me a worse deal?

 

There's a decent possibility that they'll end up getting around the #18 pick in the 2019 draft for him.  That's not nothing.  And the prospect they got is the kind of fully-seasoned prospect that JBott likes.  There's a solid likelihood that he replaces Larsson or Zemgus or someone like that in the bottom 6 and delivers a significant upgrade.

 

More importantly:  since they apparently decided they didn't want him back, the only option they had was to take the best deal they could get for him today. 

 

Now, you could argue that they should've kept him -- but they have quite a bit more info than we do in determining the answer to that question.

 

We saw Dimitri Kulikov get $4 million this summer after we couldn’t trade him for a fourth in April.

 

But clearly there must be a strong sense that Kane comes with a stink playoff bound teams considered risky.

He has a chance to wash that off with a big playoff run, and I think he and San Jose will make out just fine with this deal.

 

Ooooooooooohhh.  You got me there.

 

Kulikov remains one of my biggest "snakebit Sabres" regrets.  I liked what I saw out of him before he got hurt, but that injury completely derailed his season.  Add his unhappiness with a dysfunctional situation and the result was him being eager to leave and the Sabres getting zero out of that deal instead of a viable partner for Risto.

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darksabre Hall of Famer

darksabre

Posted
Posted

Its at least halfway to a fair question I think. Dude has had essentially a full season now; the roster isn't going to change before the league year ends at this point, and really no progress has been made. This team needs a lot of help, and he has brought in...what. Scandella is pretty good, I guess. Thats it, though. I'm not saying we should judge him solely by this year, or that he won't succeed in the long run. but if we assume a GM's job is safe for about 3 years, he's a third of the way through and we've seen no improvement.

What's he really gonna do? We have nothing to offer. I guess he could trade picks away to build up the pipeline with prospects but that's more of an offseason/draft day trade thing.

 

It's a waiting game right now. Waiting to see what our prospects do, waiting to see what the current roster players do. Waiting for Housley's system to take hold. 

 

I'm a pretty impatient person but I can't find myself worrying too much about Botterill yet. This team is a dumpster fire and I wouldn't want to be him. He might be good, but I doubt he's a wizard. 

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woods-racer First Liner

woods-racer

Posted
Posted

Maybe all the internet loudmouths who said Kane was a cancer and we would be lucky to get a 2nd were right and Botterill did a helluva job.

 

A lot of us pointed to the fact that Jack and Sam liked Evander as evidence that he wasn’t a bad guy.

Maybe his influence had a larger rule in what we have here than we’d care to admit.

Maybe this is what this team needs.

 

Value is set by what the highest bidder is willing to pay.

We now know what his value is around the league.

 

I'm betting this is the most likely scenario.

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SHAAAUGHT!!! Fourth Liner

SHAAAUGHT!!!

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Posted

Sure.  There was value in keeping his rights until July 1 (and possibly re-signing him), and there was value in not letting the rest of the league know that you're not able to play poker with the grownups yet.

 

I don't see how keeping Kane playing out another losing season would improve our negotiating position before July 1st.  Let Kane play playoffs, let's see if he can stay healthy, and then let's see what happens July 1st.  In your scenario if Jbot doesn't sign him at the end of two months,  he basically gave up a 1st rounder, a prospect, and a 4th rounder for the right to negotiate with a player that has already lived in your city and played on your team for 3 years. 

 

Regarding poker with the big boys, I think it would have shown timidness to not make a move here.  I also think that even when you lose a negotiation, you can use that as leverage in another situation ("hey man, I got killed last year, if you don't give me XYZ I can't make that deal").    

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dudacek Hall of Famer

dudacek

Posted
Posted

The return stinks, but that doesn't necessarily mean Botterill played it wrong. Like Flagg said, there has been oodles of discussion about Kane's shortcomings. GMs aren't (all) dumb.We also didn't have to take back bad money like NY did with Beleskey.

Good point. Brassard, Nash and Stastny returns were all fed by massive retention.

Maybe cap space means more to JBotts plan than we realize.

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