Kane traded to San Jose for a Cond. ‘19 1st, Dan O’ Regan and Conditional 4th

[nfreeman]

SJS won't even offer him a contract.  There is no way they sign him.  

 

Why do you think this?

 

The return stinks, but that doesn't necessarily mean Botterill played it wrong. Like Flagg said, there has been oodles of discussion about Kane's shortcomings. GMs aren't (all) dumb.We also didn't have to take back bad money like NY did with Beleskey.

 

Yes indeed.

 

Maybe all the internet loudmouths who said Kane was a cancer and we would be lucky to get a 2nd were right and Botterill did a helluva job.

 

A lot of us pointed to the fact that Jack and Sam liked Evander as evidence that he wasn’t a bad guy.

Maybe his influence had a larger rule in what we have here than we’d care to admit.

Maybe this is what this team needs.

 

Value is set by what the highest bidder is willing to pay.

We now know what his value is around the league.

 

I've wondered this myself.

[jahnyc]

This is depressing because I think we all wanted to see a prospect that would help now or soon and a first round pick in this year's draft so that the rebuild would have some energy.  This trade is of no near term help, and we just traded the winger with the most goals on the team.  How is this team not worse right now and for the foreseeable future?

[Crusader1969]

Is there any doubt we come in last place now?

 

 

and in 2019? really can anyone think of a reason to be optimistic about next season?

[Swedesessed]

This is all you need to know about this Evander Kane trade.

 

Tomas Tatar got Detroit a 1st 2nd and 3rd. NO conditions.

 

I'm done with Botterill.

[Gramps]

This is depressing because I think we all wanted to see a prospect that would help now or soon and a first round pick in this year's draft so that the rebuild would have some energy.  This trade is of no near term help, and we just traded the winger with the most goals on the team.  How is this team not worse right now and for the foreseeable future?

 

Because this season is shot and we can sign or trade for an equivalent or better UFA on 7/1

[LTS]

If Dan O'Regan becomes the equivalent of Jake Guentzal or Conor Sheary are you all as upset about the deal?

 

He's basically the same size as those two.

This is all you need to know about this Evander Kane trade.

 

Tomas Tatar got Detroit a 1st 2nd and 3rd. NO conditions.

 

I'm done with Botterill.

 

Here's what you need to know about Tatar.

 

He's signed for $5.3M for another 4 years.

The 2nd round is next year and the 3rd is in 2021.

 

Totally comparable... 100%.  

[Randall Flagg]

Toronto needed help. Bettman ensured that pick wasn't going anywhere.

Why would an independent firm in freaking England give two ###### about where to send a player they don't know in a sport they don't care about goes, and risk the legitimacy of their entire multi million dollar company to do so? 

 

Toronto was selling out after 57 years of garbage and Bettman's baby is still dying in the desert. The NHL didn't want Matthews in Toronto and even if they did, they didn't rig the lottery. 

 

Edit: Last year it was Bortz and company that handled the lottery. It was a firm from England in the McDavid year, or some other one.

Edited February 26, 2018 by Randall Flagg

[apuszczalowski]

Good point. Brassard, Nash and Stastny returns were all fed by massive retention.

Maybe cap space means more to JBotts plan than we realize.

Didn't they say they were willing to retain salary in a deal for Kane?

Might be that even with retention teams weren't willing to give up better picks or prospects for him. They would prefer to lose cash/cap space this year then a valuable pick or prospect

[Randall Flagg]

This is all you need to know about this Evander Kane trade.

 

Tomas Tatar got Detroit a 1st 2nd and 3rd. NO conditions.

 

I'm done with Botterill.

Tatar is a better player on a 4 year contract. They are not comparable. Kane is guaranteed like 20 games in SJ. Tatar is guaranteed hundreds in Vegas.

[7+6=13]

No, if this was the best deal out there, from my perspective something is always better than nothing.

 

My issue, is, I have to think J Bot had a better deal a month or 2 ago and waited hoping to get something even better and it cost him -- or he hoped that waiting for the first trade of deadline (i.e. Nash) would set a higher bar ---

 

In the end, we got what we got, but in the end, San Jose gave up very little for a legit Top 6 rental

 

Would you say the same for the other teams that traded today and last week?  Only we got offered more a month or 2 ago?  

[darksabre]

Tatar is a better player on a 4 year contract. They are not comparable. Kane is guaranteed like 20 games in SJ. Tatar is guaranteed hundreds in Vegas.

Can't you just let people be irrationally mad at Botterill in peace? 

[That Aud Smell]

JBOTS was had?

 

How on earth can that be posited?

 

Are we to believe that San Jose (and co-conspiring franchises?!) duped JBOTS into trading Kane for less than full value?

 

It makes no sense.

 

Walking away and getting nothing for Kane would be cutting the nose to spite the face — nothing more.

[Swedesessed]

Can't you just let people be irrationally mad at Botterill in peace? 

 

 

I can't I just cant! :P

[darksabre]

JBOTS was had?

 

How on earth can that be posited?

 

Are we to believe that San Jose (and co-conspiring franchises?!) duped JBOTS into trading Kane for less than full value?

 

It makes no sense.

 

Walking away and getting nothing for Kane would be cutting the nose to spite the face — nothing more.

Yeah but if he walked away he'd look tough! TOUGH. 

 

:rolleyes:

[dudacek]

Well, we did get slightly more than we got for Chris Stewart.

[PerreaultForever]

I think it really comes down to this, Kane was called a "greedy selfish player" and Botterill blew it as a greedy GM, over valued him, missed the timing and basically got nothing in a face saving deal. 

 

We did NOTHING at the deadline. We should have moved Gorges, Pouliot, Nolan, Josefson, all the UFAs and we should have moved them for anything. 

We still have Lehner, we still have Moulson (I know), all we had to look forward to this year before the lottery was a glimmer of hope for the future with a good deadline house cleaning and we got a big bag of nothing. 

 

Well I guess we find out now if Kane was a cancer but that's about it. 

[Georgia Blizzard]

Would you say the same for the other teams that traded today and last week?  Only we got offered more a month or 2 ago?  

 

I think if you list all the assets that were moved today and what they yielded in return, objectively you'd say Buffalo got very little

 

It's completely fair to raise the issue of WHY

 

Was it J BOT making a bad deal or was that the only deal out there

 

The committee in defense of this trade can only point to one reason, wait and see --- however, at this time, with the information we have in front of us, it's a bad deal

 

 

No Buffalo sports figure deserves the benefit of doubt anymore --- we all collectively gave it to GMTM and got burned, let's have J BOT EARN trust

[apuszczalowski]

Why would an independent firm in freaking England give two ###### about where to send a player they don't know in a sport they don't care about goes, and risk the legitimacy of their entire multi million dollar company to do so? 

Toronto was selling out after 57 years of garbage and Bettman's baby is still dying in the desert. The NHL didn't want Matthews in Toronto and even if they did, they didn't rig the lottery. 

 

Edit: Last year it was Bortz and company that handled the lottery. It was a firm from England in the McDavid year.

money talks and if the NHL is paying........

 

Fans were turning quickly in TO, they needed this and the league needed Toronto to turn things around to help their Canadian TV deal. The NHL wants TO to be good.

[Randall Flagg]

I think it really comes down to this, Kane was called a "greedy selfish player" and Botterill blew it as a greedy GM, over valued him, missed the timing and basically got nothing in a face saving deal. 

 

We did NOTHING at the deadline. We should have moved Gorges, Pouliot, Nolan, Josefson, all the UFAs and we should have moved them for anything. 

We still have Lehner, we still have Moulson (I know), all we had to look forward to this year before the lottery was a glimmer of hope for the future with a good deadline house cleaning and we got a big bag of nothing. 

 

Well I guess we find out now if Kane was a cancer but that's about it. 

Do you have proof that GM had a better offer at a different time? It was pretty consistently reported that teams weren't interested in seriously talking about trading for Kane until the last few days. 

 

And did you see how many players that are about as good as those guys got waived yesterday? Nobody is trading for a bunch of players so teams are waiving them. We are going to play ours to not disrupt Rochester. 

[3putt]

Why do you think this?

 

 

Yes indeed.

 

 

I've wondered this myself.

They are rumored to be all in on Tavares. If they thought he was valuable long term and were going to make an offer we probably would have gotten a  better deal.  

[darksabre]

Do you have proof that GM had a better offer at a different time? It was pretty consistently reported that teams weren't interested in seriously talking about trading for Kane until the last few days. 

 

And did you see how many players that are about as good as those guys got waived yesterday? Nobody is trading for a bunch of ###### players so teams are waiving them. We are going to play ours to not disrupt Rochester. 

Grateful you are here in this time of unrest. 

[Randall Flagg]

money talks and if the NHL is paying........

 

Fans were turning quickly in TO, they needed this and the league needed Toronto to turn things around to help their Canadian TV deal. The NHL wants TO to be good.

Tell me at which stage of the process the rigging happened? Was it before or after a representative from every team in the league was in the room? Because the lottery balls were not handled until then. Bortz&Co randomly assigned x amount of number combos to each team, corresponding to their given chances. They put the balls in the machine and the machine spat out 4 numbers in front of every team. So the machine must have been rigged somehow. How exactly do you rig a machine whose nature is to intentionally scramble the balls and eventually spit them out? This is a beautiful way to generate randomness. It would be incredibly hard and obvious to do.

 

Furthermore, tell me why NJ and Philly and Dallas won last year? You can make a story for any ###### team in the world if you want, but it is well known that Bettman desperately wants to keep Arizona in Arizona and it is well known that Edmonton and Toronto will sell out as long as they exist, and Arizona has gotten shafted time and time again, so you cannot posit that this is the scenario that helped the league out the most, and if you can, then you can make up any reason for any non-Buffalo team that will ever win. 

 

I guess it's easier to think that the universe hates Buffalo than to understand basic statistics and that relying on 20% chances or less for your happiness and belief in an honest process, is foolish.

Edited February 26, 2018 by Randall Flagg

[nfreeman]

They are rumored to be all in on Tavares. If they thought he was valuable long term and were going to make an offer we probably would have gotten a  better deal.  

 

A lot of teams are going to take shots at JT.  SJ could certainly have JT at the top of their wish list, but that doesn't mean they have no intention of re-signing Kane, especially if JT goes elsewhere and Kane plays well for them.

 

And why on earth would SJ give up more than they need to for Kane?  Clearly what they gave up today was enough to get him.

[Robviously]

The small return on Kane, the fact that there wasn't any interest in Lehner, and the Sabres still being stuck with Bogo and Moulson just illustrates how disastrous Murray was as GM.

 

GMJB has his work cut out for him. Hopefully we can make some hockey trades this summer and get some lottery luck because we're in the middle of nowhere right now.

[apuszczalowski]

I think it really comes down to this, Kane was called a "greedy selfish player" and Botterill blew it as a greedy GM, over valued him, missed the timing and basically got nothing in a face saving deal. 

 

We did NOTHING at the deadline. We should have moved Gorges, Pouliot, Nolan, Josefson, all the UFAs and we should have moved them for anything. 

We still have Lehner, we still have Moulson (I know), all we had to look forward to this year before the lottery was a glimmer of hope for the future with a good deadline house cleaning and we got a big bag of nothing. 

 

Well I guess we find out now if Kane was a cancer but that's about it.

 

you have to have other teams willing to make a trade for those players, why is anyone giving up assets for Moulson? Nolan was already available when the Sabres picked him up. The rest are done a dozen players that teams could probably find players close to their caliber on waivers.

 

Kane was way over hyped here in Buffalo. He was a good player with a damaged locker room reputation. He isn't and elite player