What if Tim Murray.....

[mjd1001]

If it means a much better shot at true long-term success and a cup then absolutely.

 

I agree. My goal is not to have the Sabres simply get a generational player though. What I want is the Sabres to be a top 10 team EVERY year for the next 10 years, and most of those years to be a top 5 team that has a legit shot at the cup.

 

I don't think you need McDavid to do that. I do think you need most of the Sabres young guys to reach their potentional, and one or two more years of top 5 picks.

[PASabreFan]

McDavid vs. Crosby

 

Pens had drafted Fleury and Malkin. Do the Sabres have an elite player like Malkin in their recent picks and a franchise goalie ready to join McDavid?

 

Crosby's owner was Mario Lemieux. Hell, he moved in with the guy. It was almost an unprecedented relationship in sports history, and it's not possible for that kind of chemistry to exist in Buffalo between superstar and owner.

 

Pittsburgh had won two Cups. The Steelers were good and about to win more Super Bowls. There wasn't an overbearing pressure on Crosby to break a franchise or civic sports "curse." McDavid will be buried in it.

 

Pittsburgh is Rust Belt, Appalachia, declining population just like Buffalo, but there's a different vibe in that town. Compare the skylines, the economy, the personality of the fans.

 

A bit of a ramble, but I think my point is that Crosby walked into a very nice spot. McDavid would find it a tougher go. Still, I'd like to watch him try to be our Sid.

[TrueBlueGED]

Do you really want to sit through another season like this one? I certainly do not

 

In a vacuum, no. But we don't live in a vacuum and this team is likely to be anywhere from bad to pathetic regardless of what happens this offseason. So my position at this point is...whatever, get me a better chance at another elite player to build around.

 

The question in my mind is, does tanking one more season really mean a much better shot at long term success? I'm not sure it does. Or, put another way, I don't believe that starting the rebound after this season ends is mutually exclusive with long term success and a reasonable shot at a Cup. Or three.

 

I don't think anyone thinks they're mutually exclusive. Rather, the debate is about our evaluations of the likelihood of this happening versus the benefit of one more tanked season.

 

McDavid vs. Crosby

 

Pens had drafted Fleury and Malkin. Do the Sabres have an elite player like Malkin in their recent picks and a franchise goalie ready to join McDavid?

 

Crosby's owner was Mario Lemieux. Hell, he moved in with the guy. It was almost an unprecedented relationship in sports history, and it's not possible for that kind of chemistry to exist in Buffalo between superstar and owner.

 

Pittsburgh had won two Cups. The Steelers were good and about to win more Super Bowls. There wasn't an overbearing pressure on Crosby to break a franchise or civic sports "curse." McDavid will be buried in it.

 

Pittsburgh is Rust Belt, Appalachia, declining population just like Buffalo, but there's a different vibe in that town. Compare the skylines, the economy, the personality of the fans.

 

A bit of a ramble, but I think my point is that Crosby walked into a very nice spot. McDavid would find it a tougher go. Still, I'd like to watch him try to be our Sid.

 

1) Not as good of a prospect as Malkin, but whoever we get this year should be a solid first line talent.

 

2) Not possible? Not likely, maybe. But not possible?

 

3) No, Crosby just had to save the team from moving to Kansas City.

Edited April 6, 2014 by TrueBluePhD

[PASabreFan]

In a vacuum, no. But we don't live in a vacuum and this team is likely to be anywhere from bad to pathetic regardless of what happens this offseason. So my position at this point is...whatever, get me a better chance at another elite player to build around.

 

 

 

I don't think anyone thinks they're mutually exclusive. Rather, the debate is about our evaluations of the likelihood of this happening versus the benefit of one more tanked season.

 

 

 

1) Not as good of a prospect as Malkin, but whoever we get this year should be a solid first line talent.

 

2) Not possible? Not likely, maybe. But not possible?

 

3) No, Crosby just had to save the team from moving to Kansas City.

 

"That kind of chemistry." Former superstar and superstar to be, same franchise, living together. Terry, back to you.

[TrueBlueGED]

"That kind of chemistry." Former superstar and superstar to be, same franchise, living together. Terry, back to you.

 

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

Edit: upon further review, I should have gone with a "so you're jealous Terry can't meddle as much as Lemieux" remark. Oh well, always next time.

Edited April 6, 2014 by TrueBluePhD

[respk]

The question in my mind is, does tanking one more season really mean a much better shot at long term success? I'm not sure it does. Or, put another way, I don't believe that starting the rebound after this season ends is mutually exclusive with long term success and a reasonable shot at a Cup. Or three.

 

Tanking one more year, drafting 1st or 2nd increases the chances of a successful rebound. As of right now I'm not so sure that there are any forwards in the organization that so far have shown the natural talent to be a 1st line forwards, outside of possibly Grigorenko. Lots of 3rd and 4th line players and a few that might become 2nd line players. Some of the prospects might step forward eventually but right now there are very few if any gifted forwards. That is why I think tanking one more year and a shot at McDavid or Eichel is so important.

[nucci]

If it means a much better shot at true long-term success and a cup then absolutely.

No guarantees on that. Murray needs to start building this team this off-season. Have another horrible season but still don't get the guy you want? Then what?

[sicknfla]

Just throwing this out there now that the dust has settled. All the FA's have been moved and we have a top 2 pick. This was the plan before and after DR.

 

So, who do you HONESTLY think would have maximized the rest of the teardown. DR or TM? I can't help but think (and i fully understand he had to go) but a part of me thinks DR would have received more value for the remainder of the guys that TM moved. Both the Pominville and Vanek moves were very well done.

[Taro T]

Just throwing this out there now that the dust has settled. All the FA's have been moved and we have a top 2 pick. This was the plan before and after DR.

 

So

who do you HONESTLY think would have maximized the rest of the teardown. DR or TM? I can't help but think (and i fully understand he had to go) but a part of me thinks DR would have received more value for the remainder of the guys that TM moved. Both the Pominville and Vanek moves were very well done.

There was no more to get for Miller, DR waiting until the last second would have botched that.

 

He might have gotten something for Staff (just a hunch), but he also might have still been holding onto Moulson - I can picture him being convinced LA would have given just a liiiiittttle bit more for him and missing out. (Another hunch) And there is little likelihood there was time for DR to trade 2 goalies @ the deadline. That Miller trade has to go down when it did for the Neuvirth trade to happen. McNabb trade probably doesn't happen either.

[Hoss]

 

 

The question in my mind is, does tanking one more season really mean a much better shot at long term success? I'm not sure it does. Or, put another way, I don't believe that starting the rebound after this season ends is mutually exclusive with long term success and a reasonable shot at a Cup. Or three.

 

I don't disagree, but I think long-term tanking is something this team hasn't done. We're loaded with good defensive prospects and starting to pool some offensive talent. Mix in multiple elite-level forwards from the draft and then this team should be set for about a decade.

 

 

No guarantees on that. Murray needs to start building this team this off-season. Have another horrible season but still don't get the guy you want? Then what?

 

Then you get one of the other elite talents in next year's draft. 2015 isn't about one player. McDavid, Eichel, Zacha, Barzal and Konecny all seem elite with a few names who could get there.

[dudacek]

I'm looking forward to Murray making moves to make this team better this summer.

I will be pissed if he doesn't.

 

I just don't think those moves will be enough to get this team out of the McDavid derby. This team is too bad.

Semantics maybe, but I see it as the tank being over, just not the consequences.

[Darryl Shannon's +/-]

Just throwing this out there now that the dust has settled. All the FA's have been moved and we have a top 2 pick. This was the plan before and after DR.

 

So, who do you HONESTLY think would have maximized the rest of the teardown. DR or TM? I can't help but think (and i fully understand he had to go) but a part of me thinks DR would have received more value for the remainder of the guys that TM moved. Both the Pominville and Vanek moves were very well done.

 

I personally believe Darcy was a magician in regards to trades, but given the price of some other big pieces at the deadline (Vanek), Murray seems to have acquitted himself quite well. My only gripe is packaging Miller/Ott, part of me believes that Ott alone as an asset may have led to a better return. In all honesty though, we have enough future draft picks in the next two years where there is some margin for error. This team is a GM's dream at the moment.....

[SabresBillsFan]

 

 

I personally believe Darcy was a magician in regards to trades, but given the price of some other big pieces at the deadline (Vanek), Murray seems to have acquitted himself quite well. My only gripe is packaging Miller/Ott, part of me believes that Ott alone as an asset may have led to a better return. In all honesty though, we have enough future draft picks in the next two years where there is some margin for error. This team is a GM's dream at the moment.....

 

I agree with the Ott part and about this is a GM's dream job with a total rebuild and a ton of cap space. I told people when this total rebuild went down it would take 3-5 years before we see playoffs and I was leaning more towards 5.

[qwksndmonster]

Just throwing this out there now that the dust has settled. All the FA's have been moved and we have a top 2 pick. This was the plan before and after DR.

 

So, who do you HONESTLY think would have maximized the rest of the teardown. DR or TM? I can't help but think (and i fully understand he had to go) but a part of me thinks DR would have received more value for the remainder of the guys that TM moved. Both the Pominville and Vanek moves were very well done.

Darcy already cost us 6-7 spots in last years draft by waiting and waiting and waiting to move the remaining members of the core, so any more that he could've gotten for our rentals this year wouldn't have even come close to bridging the gap. He also probably would've waited until deadline day to deal Ott, which would've lowered the return because it was a buyer's market for forwards.

[Claude_Verret]

I just don't think those moves will be enough to get this team out of the McDavid derby. This team is too bad.

Semantics maybe, but I see it as the tank being over, just not the consequences.

 

Thank you! It really doesn't matter if you're for the tank or against it, we've traveled too far down the road for anything that may be done this off season to be of consequence in the end.. This will be a bad / non-playoff team once again next season and we will be in the McDavid / top line talent hunt regardless.

[Hoss]

Darcy has been given a lot of credit in this thread. I agree that he's the master of selling, but he was never the master of buying or making the right move to ensure success.

[Andrew Amerk]

I think a lot of people are underestimating what Nolan can do with a full season of a mediocre roster.

 

We have seen it before.

[wjag]

I think a lot of people are underestimating what Nolan can do with a full season of a mediocre roster.

 

We have seen it before.

 

I think a lot of people are hoping what Nolan can do with a full season of a less-than-medicore roster. :flirt: Crap in, Crap out. Simple as that. This is a roster nearly devoid of NHL-level talent from top to bottom. Mediocre will be an improvement.

 

Nolan's team didn't dump his all-star goalie last time.

Edited April 7, 2014 by wjag

[Hoss]

I think a lot of people are underestimating what Nolan can do with a full season of a mediocre roster.

 

We have seen it before.

 

If he had a mediocre roster to work with then maybe, but I think it'd be hard to make moves this offseason to get this roster to even mediocre.

[shrader]

There was no more to get for Miller, DR waiting until the last second would have botched that.

 

He might have gotten something for Staff (just a hunch), but he also might have still been holding onto Moulson - I can picture him being convinced LA would have given just a liiiiittttle bit more for him and missing out. (Another hunch) And there is little likelihood there was time for DR to trade 2 goalies @ the deadline. That Miller trade has to go down when it did for the Neuvirth trade to happen. McNabb trade probably doesn't happen either.

 

I think the writing would have clearly been on the wall with LA regardless of who was GM. Once they picked up Gaborik, LA was out of the market.

[LGR4GM]

Just throwing this out there now that the dust has settled. All the FA's have been moved and we have a top 2 pick. This was the plan before and after DR.

 

So, who do you HONESTLY think would have maximized the rest of the teardown. DR or TM? I can't help but think (and i fully understand he had to go) but a part of me thinks DR would have received more value for the remainder of the guys that TM moved. Both the Pominville and Vanek moves were very well done.

I honestly think that DR would not have gotten the return we did for Miller and may not have been able to move him. TM isn't trying to maximize and win every trade, the McNabb trade proved that I think. He is looking for a certain type of player with specific skills. If he can acquire that without hurting his team he will. TM had the forsight to recognize he could deal 2 2nd round picks away because he could get them back with a snap of his fingers. I feel as if DR would have balked at getting Fasching and Deslauriers. Time will tell but I think it was the perfect time to jettison DR and bring in TM.

[That Aud Smell]

In answer to the original question, which I thought was an interesting one, I would not be mad.

 

I would in fact be mostly indifferent, waiting for a reason to follow the team closely again. I'd be the way I am now with this club. I go to the odd game, but spend most of my time chewing the fat with people I see at the game. (Honestly, I was in the concourse for almost all of the second period the last time I went -- catching up with a friend from high school days.) I keep up with all of the team's news via this site, major media outlets, Twitter, and some blogs. I sporadically watch a period or so of games when they're on TV.

 

But that's it.

 

If it's more of the same next year from the team, it will be more of the same for me.

 

Because, I'll tell ya: I got sh!t to do. And I'm not patting myself on the back. I'm just a guy who tries to be a good husband and dad. I remember so vividly how hard I worked to turn my life inside-out to follow the playoff runs in 2006 and 2007. When the team stinks, there's no reason for me to do that sort of stuff.

Edited April 7, 2014 by That Aud Smell

[Eleven]

Darcy has been given a lot of credit in this thread. I agree that he's the master of selling, but he was never the master of buying or making the right move to ensure success.

 

Once upon a time, he absolutely was the master of buying. Grosek for Gilmour and Dumont. Gratton for Briere. Warrener for Drury. The guy made some great trades.

[darksabre]

Once upon a time, he absolutely was the master of buying. Grosek for Gilmour and Dumont. Gratton for Briere. Warrener for Drury. The guy made some great trades.

 

Yup. He was a true broker of pieces. His problem was that he couldn't assemble them.

[dEnnis the Menace]

Do I want to see the team tank one more year for one more year? not really, but it would be for the better so I'd accept it for what it was. We need two years or so of top end draft picks at least. It's not a new concept. I'll still follow the team like I do now.