What if Tim Murray.....

[Iron Crotch]

You also forgot they turned that Toronto trade elevated them when they traded Kessel. Didn't they get Rask in that trade and then they ended up drafting Seguin. Boston drafted well I must say and they are putting guys into empty spots when they arrive.

 

 

 

First off that draft with Getzlaf and Perry is one of the best draft ever as it had a ton of players being impact players in round 1. And if I recall Tim Murray was a scout that wanted Getzlaf and Perry.

 

Krejci, Bergeron, and Lucic were all second round draft picks.

 

...and everyone always says "yeah, but that was a deep draft"... the irony is isn't that the argument most here are making about this coming draft? :)

 

and yes, Murray had a big role in drafting those guys, which is reason to be optimistic.

[TrueBlueGED]

Maybe? It isn't like there aren't examples of successful teams that didn't tank for two seasons.

 

Boston sure didn't need to tank. Neither did Detroit. Are they outliers? Could be. Or rmaybe they just have player evaluation staff who know what the feck they are doing. Yes, Boston has picked very high in the draft. Once. And they parlayed what they got into pieces that they needed to win a cup. They didn't need to tank to pick up Rask, Chara, Lucic, or any of their other key pieces. They have an organization that knows how to evaluate talent and build a team. Buffalo under Regier couldn't do that well enough to get beyond high level mediocrity. And we've become accustomed to it for so long that I guess we now assume that no GM can build a team without a couple years of picking at the top of the order.

 

Nobody is going to convince me Boston is some fantabulous talent evaluating franchise when they drafted Mark Stuart over Patrice Bergeron and Yury Alexandrov over Lucic (seriously, look at this abysmal record http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/BOS/draft.html). They got lucky, good on them. Even Detroit, who has a couple legit stars (even if they are in decline) and what was considered a top prospect pool, is currently wallowing in mediocrity. I don't think anyone considers them a legit contender.

[That Aud Smell]

Someone mentioned it upthread, but I will reiterate: Black has said many times, and as recently as last month, that the team is making a conscious choice to get off the "treadmill" (his term) of being almost/not quite good enough (if not his words, those are close).

 

I heard him say within this calendar year that TM could spend the offseason assembling a team that would compete next year for 7th-12th in the conference (I know, new playoff format--me no understand yet), but that he won't be doing that.

[Weave]

You also forgot they turned that Toronto trade elevated them when they traded Kessel.

 

Did I? Go back and re-read.

 

I think Boston's success is all rooted in Chara, and to do that they paid a huge price early in his contract. There were lean years until his long term contract became less of an albatross. That said, there hasn't been a free agent on the market with his skill level since the last lockout as teams have gotten smarter and extended their best players before free agency becomes an issue. This makes drafting well (and early in my opinion) even more important.

 

And calling the entire Regier occupation high level mediocrity isn't fair either. Current state of this team, sure. But there was a lot of really good hockey in the 99-07 timeframe that should be recognized and appreciated.

 

I stand by my label of high level mediocrity. We haven't had an organization capable of "getting the tools to finish the job" in the entirety of Regier's reign. I used the words "high level" to accommodate that brief period of success we had.

[shrader]

You also forgot they turned that Toronto trade elevated them when they traded Kessel. Didn't they get Rask in that trade and then they ended up drafting Seguin. Boston drafted well I must say and they are putting guys into empty spots when they arrive.

 

They got Rask three years earlier in exchange for Andrew Raycroft. Toronto just kept making great deals one after another.

 

And Weave, they didn't necessarily tank, but Boston definitely bottomed out coming out of the lockout. They finished dead last in the northast for the first two seasons. There was a sustained period of suck that was only corrected by a massive overhaul with the firing of O'Connell and the purging of Sinden's influence.

[Weave]

They got Rask three years earlier in exchange for Andrew Raycroft. Toronto just kept making great deals one after another.

 

And Weave, they didn't necessarily tank, but Boston definitely bottomed out coming out of the lockout. They finished dead last in the northast for the first two seasons. There was a sustained period of suck that was only corrected by a massive overhaul with the firing of O'Connell and the purging of Sinden's influence.

 

Right. Which is exactly where we are now. And they didn't feel the need to finish last overall two years in a row in order to become relevant again.

[shrader]

Right. Which is exactly where we are now. And they didn't feel the need to finish last overall two years in a row in order to become relevant again.

 

They weren't facing a year with a generational talent available in the draft though. When Boston made their changes, the next season's draft was the one where Stamkos went #1. My memory may be a bit off on that one, but there never was all that much hype around him. Whether or not he was the projected #1 more than a year in advance is something I don't recall. Anyway, that draft was known to be very defense-heavy. So Boston was facing a very different scenario than we have today. The thought of going through one more bad season for a shot at McDavid is a major factor here.

[Hank]

The thought of going through one more bad season for a shot at McDavid is a major factor here.

 

Exactly. One more year of suckitude for a generational type player. Like I said before, keep all the kids in the ROC/JR's all next year focus on the 15-16 season. Anything higher than dead last in the standings next year is an absolute failure.

[LGR4GM]

Exactly. One more year of suckitude for a generational type player. Like I said before, keep all the kids in the ROC/JR's all next year focus on the 15-16 season. Anything higher than dead last in the standings next year is an absolute failure.

No it isn't. Next years draft has several high end talents that are quite good. McDavid is not the be all end of all of the 2015 draft.

[deluca67]

I have quite a few reasons for wanting Callahan beyond having heard of him. This isn't like pushing to sign Gaborik (or for that matter, Vanek).

 

The Sabres haven't had a guy like Callahan since they lost Drury.

 

He's a difference-maker, especially in light of all of the young players that are going to be (hopefully) growing into major roles on this team in the next few years.

 

Watch TB in the playoffs and then tell me you don't want Callahan, even if the Sabres have to overpay to get him.

 

 

 

Right on.

The Sabres are not in the same position as the Lightning are. The Lighting a bit more along the process than the Sabres are. Callahan at this point of his career is finishing piece not a building block. I'll agree he does possess the qualities I would love to have on the roster. I think there are wiser ways to go about it than overpaying for a player who is looking to cash in. The Sabres could draft Sam Bennett with the top pick, from what I hear of the kid he has many of the same qualities. You add Bennett's qualities to what Girgrnsson brings and you have the beginning of a pretty solid core.

 

I'm not trying to trash Callahan, I just wish he were 3-4 years younger. That said, I wouldn't trash the Sabres if they did sign him. he's no Lieno or Hodgson.

 

Funny as I am typing this I am talking myself into Callahan. If the Sabres added Bennett and Callahan next season, I think the #1 pick in 2015 will be out of the question. I don't think they be a playoff team, they will be going in the right direction.

[dudacek]

Not sure if this is the right thread, but I've always defined the tank as the sell-off of the old core to build a new one.

 

This is the result:

 

Out:

Miller

Vanek

Pominville

Roy

Gaustad

Regehr

Sekera

Leopold

McNabb

 

In:

Neuvirth

Hackett

Girgensons

Zadorov

Larsson

Compher

Fasching

Deslauriers

Bailey

Carrier

2015 Blues first

2014 or 15 Islander first

2014 Wild second

2014 Jets second

2015 Islanders second

2016 Wild second

Conditional Blues pick dependent on Miller resigning

Plus the "tank" reward of a top two pick this year and potentially another top five next year.

 

What are your thoughts on how we've done?

[Weave]

Not sure if this is the right thread, but I've always defined the tank as the sell-off of the old core to build a new one.

 

This is the result:

 

..........

 

What are your thoughts on how we've done?

 

Magic 8 ball says, not enough information.

[Hank]

 

No it isn't. Next years draft has several high end talents that are quite good. McDavid is not the be all end of all of the 2015 draft.

 

Would you rather finish 30th and get McDavid or finish 27th and get someone else? It's not even close. Will they contend next year? No. So why not bottom out and get what could be a generational type player? I don't understand the debate.

[Hoss]

 

 

Would you rather finish 30th and get McDavid or finish 27th and get someone else? It's not even close. Will they contend next year? No. So why not bottom out and get what could be a generational type player? I don't understand the debate.

 

Of course you'd rather get McDavid. But there's more than one option. Everybody would prefer McDavid to whoever is fourth, but the fact is that he's not the ONLY option.

[Hank]

 

 

Of course you'd rather get McDavid. But there's more than one option. Everybody would prefer McDavid to whoever is fourth, but the fact is that he's not the ONLY option.

 

Would you rather finish 27th or 30th next year?

[LGR4GM]

Would you rather finish 30th and get McDavid or finish 27th and get someone else? It's not even close. Will they contend next year? No. So why not bottom out and get what could be a generational type player? I don't understand the debate.

The debate is simple. With a top 2 pick this year and all the other picks starting next year I would be perfectly content with seeing this team improve upon this season. Its forward progress. Now whether that means finishing 30th but with more points than this year of finishing 26th I am not very concerned. There are several players at the top of the 2015 draft who could be extremely good. Many teams have proved you don't need Sidney Crosby to win the Stanley Cup, so if we don't get McDavid it isn't the be all end all.

[Hoss]

 

 

Would you rather finish 27th or 30th next year?

 

Would you rather read what I just said or have me restate it?

 

I want to finish last. I really do. Look at my name and picture for christ's sake. But I'm not stupid enough to just give up and call it a failure if they don't end up getting McDavid.

 

I'll be annoyed when they win pointless games later in the season, sure, but there are a few franchise-changing talents in next year's draft.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Tankalicious

[LGR4GM]

Would you rather finish 27th or 30th next year?

You keep asking and I will keep telling you this team needs to show signs of improvement starting next year. That could mean finishing with 61pts instead of 51 and it could mean finishing 27th. The point again is with all the young talent being added to the team we need to see them develop. Also we could finish 27th next year and still draft first. We could finish 20th and the NYI could defer and we could still draft first. This team needs to show that they are on the right track starting sooner rather than later. Wallowing at the level of crap we are now does nothing.

[Johnny DangerFace]

 

 

Would you rather finish 27th or 30th next year?

 

You said we either get the number one pick or it's a failure. Which is ridiculous and nobody agrees with. First off, there are more than one franchise players next year. Eichel would go first in most drafts in recent years.

 

Second what is this 30th or 27th about? It's irrelevant to anyone's point....would rather finish 27th and win the lottery, or finish 30th and not win the the lottery....

 

If we got eichel next year, and you call that a failure, well then you are just a little misinformed

Edited April 11, 2014 by Numark

[nfreeman]

The Sabres are not in the same position as the Lightning are. The Lighting a bit more along the process than the Sabres are. Callahan at this point of his career is finishing piece not a building block. I'll agree he does possess the qualities I would love to have on the roster. I think there are wiser ways to go about it than overpaying for a player who is looking to cash in. The Sabres could draft Sam Bennett with the top pick, from what I hear of the kid he has many of the same qualities. You add Bennett's qualities to what Girgrnsson brings and you have the beginning of a pretty solid core.

 

I'm not trying to trash Callahan, I just wish he were 3-4 years younger. That said, I wouldn't trash the Sabres if they did sign him. he's no Lieno or Hodgson.

 

Funny as I am typing this I am talking myself into Callahan. If the Sabres added Bennett and Callahan next season, I think the #1 pick in 2015 will be out of the question. I don't think they be a playoff team, they will be going in the right direction.

 

My man!

 

Let's not forget that the Islanders are probably 75% likely to give the Sabres their 2015 pick, and probably 67% likely to be a bottom-5 team in 2014-15, and probably 33% likely to be a bottom-3 team in 2014-15...

 

Would you rather finish 30th and get McDavid or finish 27th and get someone else? It's not even close. Will they contend next year? No. So why not bottom out and get what could be a generational type player? I don't understand the debate.

 

Well, for starters, bottoming out doesn't get them McDavid. It gives them a 25% chance at McDavid.

 

So your choice isn't trying to improve vs. getting McDavid. It's trying to improve (and eradicate the losing stench before it becomes too dug in) vs. a 25% chance at McDavid.

[Johnny DangerFace]

 

I'm not trying to trash Callahan, I just wish he were 3-4 years younger. That said, I wouldn't trash the Sabres if they did sign him. he's no Lieno or Hodgson.

 

Ah ridiculous Cody hate :)

[Campy]

Who doesn't want great players. That's what every team wants but the good organizations either draft them in the top of the draft unless you are the Red Wings and either find them in Europe! We all seen when Buffalo drafts in the teens what kind of players they get. Some People want this this team to tank others don't. You don't want the tank be prepared to see what you seen from a lot of Buffalo teams and that's an also-ran with no chance at the Cup. Management is sold on the Pittsburgh model of rebuilding. This would have been sped up if Darcy would have started the fire sale last year and had a shot at MacKinnon. All these late runs of being mediocre killed draft positions numerous times.

 

The only flaw is I watch the games to be entertained, not see them win the Cup. Sure, I'd love it if they were to win it all, and I know that's the ultimate goal of every player in the NHL. But it's not my goal. Not at the cost of watching a season like this one.

[shrader]

Let's not forget that the Islanders are probably 75% likely to give the Sabres their 2015 pick, and probably 67% likely to be a bottom-5 team in 2014-15, and probably 33% likely to be a bottom-3 team in 2014-15...

 

Your numbers don't work out too well. If they are that likely to suck in 2014-2015, they will not be making a first round draft pick this year. Now I know this next sentence will meet some opposition, but I'll go ahead and say it anyway. Even Garth Snow isn't dumb enough to give away his 2015 pick if those are the numbers he is facing.

[deluca67]

My man!

 

Let's not forget that the Islanders are probably 75% likely to give the Sabres their 2015 pick, and probably 67% likely to be a bottom-5 team in 2014-15, and probably 33% likely to be a bottom-3 team in 2014-15...

 

 

 

Well, for starters, bottoming out doesn't get them McDavid. It gives them a 25% chance at McDavid.

 

So your choice isn't trying to improve vs. getting McDavid. It's trying to improve (and eradicate the losing stench before it becomes too dug in) vs. a 25% chance at McDavid.

Oddly enough, I am more interested in getting the St Louis #1 pick this year. 2014 or 2015, we're likely to get a really good player with that pick. The St. Louis pick is the type of asset that combined with another asset that will land the Sabres an NHL ready player from another team.

 

Your numbers don't work out too well. If they are that likely to suck in 2014-2015, they will not be making a first round draft pick this year. Now I know this next sentence will meet some opposition, but I'll go ahead and say it anyway. Even Garth Snow isn't dumb enough to give away his 2015 pick if those are the numbers he is facing.

 

Snow has to survive 2014 before worrying about 2015. If he thinks he can get a Bennett or Ekblad and that player can be a difference maker he is likely let the 2015 pick go and hope to have to worry about the criticism then if he is still employed.

[Iron Crotch]

The only flaw is I watch the games to be entertained, not see them win the Cup. Sure, I'd love it if they were to win it all, and I know that's the ultimate goal of every player in the NHL. But it's not my goal. Not at the cost of watching a season like this one.

 

This is a valid point. The product that is provided by the Sabres organization and consumed by fans is entertainment.