thewookie1 Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 You can't suspend him for not getting a surgery but you can suspend for getting a surgery against the wishes of the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 35 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: The difference is if he is suspended on Monday he isn't getting paid any longer and the longer he delays getting a surgery (ADR or ACDF) the longer he goes without being paid. Now the liability has shifted to Jack and that is why his team is working hard to facilitate a trade by Monday. True, but I'm thinking he isn't hurting for money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 35 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: But you don't have $50 mill (US) riding on getting healthy asap. Yes I definitely do not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 29 minutes ago, thewookie1 said: You can't suspend him for not getting a surgery but you can suspend for getting a surgery against the wishes of the team. Is that true? The team has ultimate say on his medical treatment. If he does not go along with his treatment plan, isn't that a material breach of the contract? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 11 minutes ago, Doohickie said: Is that true? The team has ultimate say on his medical treatment. If he does not go along with his treatment plan, isn't that a material breach of the contract? It is and he can be suspended for not following the prescribed treatment. Again Jack can file a medical arbitration but hasn't. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 2 hours ago, Taro T said: Per Google, looks like the surgery is "only" ~$35,000. Had expected it was significantly more expensive than that. He could cover that nut. MSRP on my knee replacement was in the six-figures. Is that surgery price in America? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 I find it interesting that the Rangers have about $7 million in cap space this close to the start of the season. I also wonder if that ***** offer Chris Drury may have floated 3 months ago might look a whole lot closer to Kevyn Adams' ask than it once did. Don't get me wrong, I'm mostly on the same page as @nfreeman and the others who think nothing is going to happen prior to the surgery question being resolved. But, if there are teams out there still taking, this was always the team that made the most sense and nothing has happened to indicate the door has been closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 1 minute ago, dudacek said: I find it interesting that the Rangers have about $7 million in cap space this close to the start of the season. I also wonder if that ***** offer Chris Drury may have floated 3 months ago might look a whole lot closer to Kevyn Adams' ask than it once did. Don't get me wrong, I'm mostly on the same page as @nfreeman and the others who think nothing is going to happen prior to the surgery question being resolved. But, if there are teams out there still talking, this was always the team that made the most sense and nothing has happened to indicate the door has been closed. I'll slam the door close if that's the case. The supposed offer was garbage so Adams had better not have started dropping his price anywhere near a bunch of question marks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 55 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: MSRP on my knee replacement was in the six-figures. Is that surgery price in America? Like stated in the post you quoted, that's what Google says after a VERY cursory search. And, also as stated, it is significantly less than anticipated. Doubt that includes anything but the surgery proper & it also could be for a much simpler version of what Eichel would need done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 27 minutes ago, dudacek said: I find it interesting that the Rangers have about $7 million in cap space this close to the start of the season. I also wonder if that ***** offer Chris Drury may have floated 3 months ago might look a whole lot closer to Kevyn Adams' ask than it once did. Don't get me wrong, I'm mostly on the same page as @nfreeman and the others who think nothing is going to happen prior to the surgery question being resolved. But, if there are teams out there still taking, this was always the team that made the most sense and nothing has happened to indicate the door has been closed. 24 minutes ago, thewookie1 said: I'll slam the door close if that's the case. The supposed offer was garbage so Adams had better not have started dropping his price anywhere near a bunch of question marks The question of whether KA will accept a lousy offer IMHO really comes down to whether he is willing to make Jack sit until Jack caves and has fusion surgery. No one is going to give the Sabres a top-end prospect for Eichel without seeing him play NHL games at a high level. The Sabres aren't going to let Jack have ADR surgery -- so the only way they are going to get a good return in trade for him is if he caves, has fusion surgery and looks good in NHL games after the surgery. Alternatively, if KA is willing to take a conditional 1st and a team's 4th-best prospect, which is probably about what he can get for Eichel as is, he can move Jack's $50MM contract off of the Sabres' balance sheet, let someone else take the risk on the ADR surgery and move on. I don't see any other possible outcomes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 7 minutes ago, nfreeman said: The question of whether KA will accept a lousy offer IMHO really comes down to whether he is willing to make Jack sit until Jack caves and has fusion surgery. No one is going to give the Sabres a top-end prospect for Eichel without seeing him play NHL games at a high level. The Sabres aren't going to let Jack have ADR surgery -- so the only way they are going to get a good return in trade for him is if he caves, has fusion surgery and looks good in NHL games after the surgery. Alternatively, if KA is willing to take a conditional 1st and a team's 4th-best prospect, which is probably about what he can get for Eichel as is, he can move Jack's $50MM contract off of the Sabres' balance sheet, let someone else take the risk on the ADR surgery and move on. I don't see any other possible outcomes. What if I team has been sweet-talked enough by Brisson and doctors to convince itself to upgrade a "conditional 1st and a team's 4th-best prospect" to an "actual 1st and a team's 2nd-best prospect" and that Adams has been beaten down enough to say he's not going to win the fusion battle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 55 minutes ago, nfreeman said: The question of whether KA will accept a lousy offer IMHO really comes down to whether he is willing to make Jack sit until Jack caves and has fusion surgery. No one is going to give the Sabres a top-end prospect for Eichel without seeing him play NHL games at a high level. The Sabres aren't going to let Jack have ADR surgery -- so the only way they are going to get a good return in trade for him is if he caves, has fusion surgery and looks good in NHL games after the surgery. Alternatively, if KA is willing to take a conditional 1st and a team's 4th-best prospect, which is probably about what he can get for Eichel as is, he can move Jack's $50MM contract off of the Sabres' balance sheet, let someone else take the risk on the ADR surgery and move on. I don't see any other possible outcomes. You can’t go from 4 1sts to less than ROR. In that case you tell Jack to get the surgery behind closed doors and the suspend with pay until he heals. Screwing this trade up would mean waiting 5 more freaking years to see much of anything and that is completely unacceptable 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 Just now, thewookie1 said: You can’t go from 4 1sts to less than ROR. In that case you tell Jack to get the surgery behind closed doors and the suspend with pay until he heals. Screwing this trade up would mean waiting 5 more freaking years to see much of anything and that is completely unacceptable Assume what is probable: the Sabres are likely to get a top three pick. Add a player who is a true 1C prospect to a decent pool of young prospects, I don't see 5 years out as necessary. I'm thinking 3 years to a team worth watching, and they better be entertaining by year 2. All that said, getting a reasonable return on Eichel obviously greatly increases the chances of success, so I would agree any option that involves settling for less than ROR is pretty much worthless. It would also perpetuate the well-earned reputation that the Sabres' FO is the dupe for the rest of the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 11 minutes ago, thewookie1 said: You can’t go from 4 1sts to less than ROR. In that case you tell Jack to get the surgery behind closed doors and the suspend with pay until he heals. Screwing this trade up would mean waiting 5 more freaking years to see much of anything and that is completely unacceptable So I am reading this is as you concluding the best acceptable plan for the Sabres is to secretly encourage Jack to get the surgery he wants, on the condition he knows he won’t get paid until he heals, then return to the bargaining table in the new year and see what you can get for a healthy Jack. Do you think Jack will go for that? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 Pat Brisson was on the Final Segment of the Jeff Marek Show Today He mentioned “more than one or two, more than a handful of teams would allow Jack to have the ADR” He and Adams have spoken to all these teams. He mentioned that in addition to the GMs, Brisson has spoken to Team Doctors as well. Brisson also mentioned the barriers to a trade, the 10 Million Dollar Salary, 5 Year Term and “Jack Eichel is not the normal Jack Eichel, He is a depleted asset right now” Mentioned that He feels if He has the Surgery now, He will be ready for the Olympics 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 1 hour ago, dudacek said: What if I team has been sweet-talked enough by Brisson and doctors to convince itself to upgrade a "conditional 1st and a team's 4th-best prospect" to an "actual 1st and a team's 2nd-best prospect" and that Adams has been beaten down enough to say he's not going to win the fusion battle? That’s probably fair market value for whatever player is the equivalent of 80% Jack Eichel. 1 hour ago, thewookie1 said: You can’t go from 4 1sts to less than ROR. In that case you tell Jack to get the surgery behind closed doors and the suspend with pay until he heals. Screwing this trade up would mean waiting 5 more freaking years to see much of anything and that is completely unacceptable You are hung up on sunk costs. Take the value of the player as they are currently, not as you’d hope they will be at some future moment in time. That moment may never come. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 30 minutes ago, Brawndo said: Pat Brisson was on the Final Segment of the Jeff Marek Show Today He mentioned “more than one or two, more than a handful of teams would allow Jack to have the ADR” He and Adams have spoken to all these teams. He mentioned that in addition to the GMs, Brisson has spoken to Team Doctors as well. Brisson also mentioned the barriers to a trade, the 10 Million Dollar Salary, 5 Year Term and “Jack Eichel is not the normal Jack Eichel, He is a depleted asset right now” Mentioned that He feels if He has the Surgery now, He will be ready for the Olympics Laying the groundwork for the Sabres to get less and retain salary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 9 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: Laying the groundwork for the Sabres to get less and retain salary. No deal. Brisson said it himself, Eichel is a depleted asset at the moment. There is plenty of time for his value to be reestablished and that’s when you should sell. If there’s even one iota of doubt that Eichel will regain his elite form, then what the hell are we talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 LeBrun was on Insider Trading, mentioned that the Sabres are now willing to put conditions on certain parts of the trade to facilitate one happening 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 KA is wilting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmel Corn Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 KA should consider allowing the ADR in exchange for Eichel waiving his NMC. That way, if Jack does regain form KA can make his best deal with the highest bidder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthEbriate Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, bunomatic said: KA is wilting And competing GMs are doing their jobs. I hope Sheevyn doesn't cave too much. But as another GM I wouldn't meet the 4-firsts equivalent asking price for an injured and disconnected/discontent player who makes a boatload of cash and will soon be more difficult to move. If I get this trade wrong as a GM, I might find myself fired. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos1963 Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 24 minutes ago, Carmel Corn said: KA should consider allowing the ADR in exchange for Eichel waiving his NMC. That way, if Jack does regain form KA can make his best deal with the highest bidder. The NMC means nothing. Eichel wants out badly, he's been quoted as saying 'he'll go anywhere to facilitate a trade'. There's no place worse than Buffalo right now. 1 hour ago, Brawndo said: Pat Brisson was on the Final Segment of the Jeff Marek Show Today He mentioned “more than one or two, more than a handful of teams would allow Jack to have the ADR” He and Adams have spoken to all these teams. He mentioned that in addition to the GMs, Brisson has spoken to Team Doctors as well. Brisson also mentioned the barriers to a trade, the 10 Million Dollar Salary, 5 Year Term and “Jack Eichel is not the normal Jack Eichel, He is a depleted asset right now” Mentioned that He feels if He has the Surgery now, He will be ready for the Olympics Wonder what those team doctors are seeing that ours aren't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 It's nice to hear that there may be some movement. It would be nice to hear some credible trade speculation now rather than listing all the teams best prospects and saying that none are on the table for Eichel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjd1001 Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 42 minutes ago, bunomatic said: KA is wilting Not really. Here is the reality....if no one is/was willing to pay his asking price, the his price was too high. Many times an Asset is not worth what you THINK it should be worth, but it is worth what someone is willing to pay. Remember, you aren't selling to just one team, you have the entire league to sell to, and probably 4-6 teams that are seriously interested in what you are selling. If you have 4-6 teams that want your asset, but no one is willing to pay the price, then your price is too high. It isn't a matter of him 'wilting'. If you want him to get his price and ONLY his price, then he is wilting....but 'fair value' is what someone is willing to pay. Its like selling a car/truck. My friend put a lot of money into his truck a few years ago. He wanted to sell it a couple years later. he was SURE it was worth $25,000. But after a full year no one was willing to pay his price. His truck sold a year later when he was willing to accept $18,000. He didn't 'wilt', he simply ended up lowering his asking price because a LONG time went by with no-one willing to meet his original price. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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