Doohickie Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said: You expect Adams to make good decisions. Wow interesting. Like Dell? 🤪 Dell wasn't a bad decision. His career stats were almost identical to Ullmark's. The trend was different but it was worth it to take a flyer on him to see if he just needed a change of scenery. And at what risk? $750k? Even with Dell not working out I can't call that a bad decision. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said: I hope your right Taro, but there is a significant event coming. What do the Sabres do with Jack on Monday? IR or suspension. If suspended for off-ice issues, like a failed drug test or in this case not following the prescribed medical treatment, Jack loses his $ and the Sabres lose the cap hit. Suspending him would put the Sabres $7 mill under the cap floor. Jack also wants to get paid while this is resolved. There is now incentive on both sides to get this resolved by Monday. I think this is impetus for the recent rumors. Of course the Sabres could just place him on IR and wait it out. That's what I would do. That's what you would do, but do you trust KA and the Pegulas to be rational and make good decisions. I don't. I think Adams makes rational decisions – they aren't always correct decisions, but they are ones that can be defended. I also think there is a PR statement that would be made by suspending Jack without pay, which is essentially holding him hostage and forcing him to get a surgery he doesn't want in order to make his living. Sabrespace doesn't seem to care about how that's perceived, but I can tell you the greater hockey world has a different opinion and the NHL definitely cares. 1 hour ago, nfreeman said: Maybe, but given surgery/rehab time, it's at least 50/50 that Jack provides zero help to anyone on the ice this season. However, I can certainly see a GM thinking that a Jack trade will buy him time, since the team probably won't see the fruits of the trade until next season. I think they'll probably put him on IR, but I don't think in any case that the cap floor will drive their decisions. They can always trade for someone else's bad contract if needed to reach the floor. Anyone trading for Jack now is letting him get ADR and expecting him back fairly early in the new year. Edited October 7, 2021 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 1 minute ago, dudacek said: I think Adams makes rational decisions – they aren't always correct decisions, but they are ones that can be defended. I also think there is a PR statement that would be made by suspending Jack without pay, which is essentially holding him hostage and forcing him to get a surgery he doesn't want in order to make living. Sabrespace doesn't seem to care about how that's perceived, but I can tell you the greater hockey world has a different opinion and the NHL definitely cares. Anyone trading for Jack now is letting him get ADR and expecting him back fairly early in the new year. I'd argue that suspending him would allow him to go and get the ADR. What more can they do to him other then void his contract which they won't do I they void the contract Jack would be a FA and the team would get nothing for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: I'd argue that suspending him would allow him to go and get the ADR. What more can they do to him other then void his contract which they won't do I they void the contract Jack would be a FA and the team would get nothing for him. How is suspending him letting him go get the ADR? He's never going to pay for it out of pocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 1 minute ago, Taro T said: How is suspending him letting him go get the ADR? He's never going to pay for it out of pocket. Why? He can afford it and if he's right and it gets him back on the ice quicker and healthier then the suspension will be lifted and he'll get traded. The Sabres aren't voiding the contract no matter what Jack does. I actually think putting him IR is holding him hostage. Financially it works for everyone, but Jack's health and career remain in limbo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 8 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: Why? He can afford it and if he's right and it gets him back on the ice quicker and healthier then the suspension will be lifted and he'll get traded. If he were going to do it, he'd have done it by now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 Just now, Doohickie said: If he were going to do it, he'd have done it by now. I disagree. He and his agents were trying to force the Sabres to allow him to get the surgery and bare all the financial responsibility if it didn’t work. That strategy failed and he replaced his agents. His new agents are shopping his medicals to help get a trade done asap so that the new team will allow him to get the surgery he wants and the new team will bare all the financial responsibility if it fails. On Monday that strategy will also fail. Then what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 15 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: Why? He can afford it and if he's right and it gets him back on the ice quicker and healthier then the suspension will be lifted and he'll get traded. The Sabres aren't voiding the contract no matter what Jack does. I actually think putting him IR is holding him hostage. Financially it works for everyone, but Jack's health and career remain in limbo. Per Google, looks like the surgery is "only" ~$35,000. Had expected it was significantly more expensive than that. He could cover that nut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 5 minutes ago, Taro T said: Per Google, looks like the surgery is "only" ~$35,000. Had expected it was significantly more expensive than that. He could cover that nut. Just think of all the points he’ll get when he pays for it with his Amex Platinum card. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: Just think of all the points he’ll get when he pays for it with his Amex Platinum card. I’m confused here in Burlington Ontario. Surgery has a price to it ?? 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 15 minutes ago, Taro T said: Per Google, looks like the surgery is "only" ~$35,000. Had expected it was significantly more expensive than that. He could cover that nut. Surgery: $35000 Voided Contract if goes wrong and he never plays again: $50,000,000 (or something like that) As others have said, there are a lot of moving parts. Jack, the Sabres, other teams, and probably most of all, insurance. No one wants to eat/lose $50M on a gamble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSchmoe Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 10 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said: I’m confused here in Burlington Ontario. Surgery has a price to it ?? Also confused from Grimsby Ontario. You can get a surgery or an MRI anytime you want one? Then why are me and my bum knee sitting out this beer league hockey season for nothing like a sucker? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 1 minute ago, JoeSchmoe said: Also confused from Grimsby Ontario. You can get a surgery or an MRI anytime you want one? Then why are me and my bum knee sitting out this beer league hockey season for nothing like a sucker? I was about to ask if you can even get surgery in Canada? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Collection Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 1 hour ago, dudacek said: Agreed. The only thing that has changed is that some GMs are looking at the reality of their season-opening rosters. And they're asking themselves one last time if a Jack trade is the boost they'll need. The longer his surgery is delayed the more they can Kucherov him, I wonder if that is in the equation. Teams can use LTIR until the playoffs and clear space for him for 22/23. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres73 Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 10 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: I was about to ask if you can even get surgery in Canada? What an ignorant comment. Typical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 9 minutes ago, French Collection said: The longer his surgery is delayed the more they can Kucherov him, I wonder if that is in the equation. Teams can use LTIR until the playoffs and clear space for him for 22/23. excellent point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 1 hour ago, dudacek said: I think Adams makes rational decisions – they aren't always correct decisions, but they are ones that can be defended. I also think there is a PR statement that would be made by suspending Jack without pay, which is essentially holding him hostage and forcing him to get a surgery he doesn't want in order to make his living. Sabrespace doesn't seem to care about how that's perceived, but I can tell you the greater hockey world has a different opinion and the NHL definitely cares. Anyone trading for Jack now is letting him get ADR and expecting him back fairly early in the new year. I agree that suspending him without pay would set off a poopstorm, and I think the Sabres will probably choose not to do so. I also agree that anyone trading for Jack will let him get ADR. I also think though that the acquiror will not expect him back until 75% into the season, if at all this season, and that the risk of him never being right again will result in heavy discounts on the trade offers -- which will prevent a trade from happening. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, nfreeman said: I agree that suspending him without pay would set off a poopstorm, and I think the Sabres will probably choose not to do so. I also agree that anyone trading for Jack will let him get ADR. I also think though that the acquiror will not expect him back until 75% into the season, if at all this season, and that the risk of him never being right again will result in heavy discounts on the trade offers -- which will prevent a trade from happening. and the circle goes round and round. Edited October 7, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 24 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said: Also confused from Grimsby Ontario. You can get a surgery or an MRI anytime you want one? Then why are me and my bum knee sitting out this beer league hockey season for nothing like a sucker? Caus you don’t play for the leafs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 52 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: Then what? Then collect his $10 million unemployment (okay, LTIR) check and continue to try to facilitate a trade. I see no fundamental difference between last week and next week. If he does it on his own he assumes all the liability. He's not gonna do that. If he was gonna do that he would have done that already (which was my first point). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalonill Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, Doohickie said: Then collect his $10 million unemployment (okay, LTIR) check and continue to try to facilitate a trade. I see no fundamental difference between last week and next week. If he does it on his own he assumes all the liability. He's not gonna do that. If he was gonna do that he would have done that already (which was my first point). Only reason why he's not doing it so his contract is not void and still here for 5 more years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Doohickie said: Then collect his $10 million unemployment (okay, LTIR) check and continue to try to facilitate a trade. I see no fundamental difference between last week and next week. If he does it on his own he assumes all the liability. He's not gonna do that. If he was gonna do that he would have done that already (which was my first point). The difference is if he is suspended on Monday he isn't getting paid any longer and the longer he delays getting a surgery (ADR or ACDF) the longer he goes without being paid. Now the liability has shifted to Jack and that is why his team is working hard to facilitate a trade by Monday. Edited October 7, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 46 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: I was about to ask if you can even get surgery in Canada? Depends, if you play for the Leafs, then you will get immediate service. For the rest of us, we have to have extreme patience. My initial comment was a bit of tongue and cheek as the correct answer to the cost of surgery in Canada is socialism. That being said If i had to choose between paying $35k US for neck surgery or waiting a year, Id probably wait a year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresVet Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 Suspending Eichel only reduces the team's professional reputation among players and agents who they may have to work with in the future. The throwaway line Adams uses about "players wanting to be here" will be even more hilarious as they burn bridges with contacts throughout the league. If they suspend him and take that heavy-handed approach, rebuilding just got a whole lot harder. Plus side is it'll whet the appetites of fans who want Jack to pay for abandoning their team. Of course, that does nothing to win games, but they'll be celebrating a healthy dose of schadenfreude. 😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted October 7, 2021 Report Share Posted October 7, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, Crusader1969 said: Depends, if you play for the Leafs, then you will get immediate service. For the rest of us, we have to have extreme patience. My initial comment was a bit of tongue and cheek as the correct answer to the cost of surgery in Canada is socialism. That being said If i had to choose between paying $35k US for neck surgery or waiting a year, Id probably wait a year. But you don't have $50 mill (US) riding on getting healthy asap. Edited October 7, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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