Weave Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 5 hours ago, nfreeman said: But again: why is now the time to reduce his price? Sure, many fans and sports media types are sick of the whole thing and want to move on, but that's not a good reason from KA's perspective. From his perspective, if he waits, say, 6 weeks, the offers he's getting won't get any worse, but there is a decent chance that his situation will improve, because either (i) teams like the Habs, the Rangers and Vegas will have crappy starts and feel the pressure to make a move, thus increasing their offers to KA or (ii) Eichel will get antsy and have fusion surgery. I just don't see any reason for him to do anything now. He clearly isn't feeling any pressure from TP to bring in players in trade to help the team this year. And right now the team looks much improved (although the air will probably leak out of the balloon at some point). This seems like more agent BS that's been fed to Friedman. They've had months to "collect evidence." They haven't launched the medical grievance procedure because they know they will lose. I don't blame Brisson for fabricating stuff in an attempt to pressure KA to lower his price -- that is what Brisson is supposed to do -- but it seems pretty clear that KA, rightly, sees through it and isn't going to be swayed by it. This could very well prove out, but there is no reason in the world for KA to make a move now. Time is on his side for at least the next couple of months. I don''t agree with your thoughts re: time. Any team that would be interested in Jack weeks from now is probably doing so out of pressure to salvage a season. Jack will need at least 3 months recovery time before he hits the ice. You'd be looking at Jack hitting the ice in February-March. If you are looking to salvage a season the time is now, not 4-6 weeks from now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, Weave said: I don''t agree with your thoughts re: time. Any team that would be interested in Jack weeks from now is probably doing so out of pressure to salvage a season. Jack will need at least 3 months recovery time before he hits the ice. You'd be looking at Jack hitting the ice in February-March. If you are looking to salvage a season the time is now, not 4-6 weeks from now. Well depends, longest recovery is 3 months, but might as well be 6 weeks only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 Just now, Huckleberry said: Well depends, longest recovery is 3 months, but might as well be 6 weeks only. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kas23 Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 I find this “grievance” and “pressure” stuff a bit much. The only person feeling pressure right now is Jack. It’s his God given right to have any surgery he pleases. As an employee of the Sabres, my guess is he can even get them to pay for the whole thing as well. However, he can’t have his cake and eat it too. He must assume the full financial consequences of a poor outcome. If he’s so positive this is the right surgery for him, then he should have nothing to fear. As for the Olympics, do the Sabres have the right, as defined in the CBA, to deny him from participating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 11 minutes ago, Weave said: I don''t agree with your thoughts re: time. Any team that would be interested in Jack weeks from now is probably doing so out of pressure to salvage a season. Jack will need at least 3 months recovery time before he hits the ice. You'd be looking at Jack hitting the ice in February-March. If you are looking to salvage a season the time is now, not 4-6 weeks from now. Well, we're only a few games into the season. My thinking was that there would be real pressure after, say, 15-20 games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 I don't think any team trading for Jack is doing it with this current season in mind. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, darksabre said: I don't think any team trading for Jack is doing it with this current season in mind. Not anymore they're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 12 minutes ago, kas23 said: I find this “grievance” and “pressure” stuff a bit much. The only person feeling pressure right now is Jack. It’s his God given right to have any surgery he pleases. As an employee of the Sabres, my guess is he can even get them to pay for the whole thing as well. However, he can’t have his cake and eat it too. He must assume the full financial consequences of a poor outcome. If he’s so positive this is the right surgery for him, then he should have nothing to fear. As for the Olympics, do the Sabres have the right, as defined in the CBA, to deny him from participating? As to the olympics I would hope Jack could play. I can’t see a team trying to keep him out. It may happen as a result of this medical disagreement but thats a result of the disagreement not the aim of the Sabres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 2 hours ago, The Ghost of Yuri said: fify: I think this is the point. No one really knows what the risk is, because there's very little applicable data. There is no high-end hockey data, only limited data from other contact sports (this guy, I suppose, with a ton of disclaimers in the video). But are the loads experienced by a mixed martial arts fighter comparable to an NHL player? Sure they both see a lot of contact, but the MMA fighter isn't flying around at 20+ mph prior to impact. It's the inevitable consequence of KA accepting a ROR-like return. You may not blame him, but popular opinion will. The 6-week timeline after that invasive a surgery smells like poop to me. Why is a fusion 9 months? Because you want to be damn sure everything is fully healed before you take a hit. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos1963 Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 4 hours ago, pi2000 said: There's another scenario which has him playing in the Olympics.... the disc is in fact healing, albeit slowly. There's another scenario which has him playing in the Olympics.... the disc is in fact healing, albeit slowly. Do we know this for a fact? How slowly? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cold-stove-a-hockey-podcast/id1589288590 New podcast "Coldstove" which has NRD covering NHL rumors. He covers some potential trade partners for Eichel. It's an interesting listen. Not sure how credible his sources are but a nice listen anyway. San Jose, Anaheim, Detroit, Vegas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 Eichel just gonna have to sit and wait 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimlach Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Huckleberry said: Well depends, longest recovery is 3 months, but might as well be 6 weeks only. The Olympics start Feb 9. For Jack to make the team he needs to be skating and ready to compete by early January. November is almost here. No way he has a major surgery and is ready to play. He best option is to demonstrate he is ready to play based on rest and rehab. If that happens he can thank the Sabres for doing what is best for him. Edited October 22, 2021 by Pimlach 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kas23 Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 @Pimlach You seem confused. Use your words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 lolwut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimlach Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 4 minutes ago, kas23 said: @Pimlach You seem confused. Use your words. I fixed a few typos. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 2 hours ago, kas23 said: I find this “grievance” and “pressure” stuff a bit much. The only person feeling pressure right now is Jack. It’s his God given right to have any surgery he pleases. As an employee of the Sabres, my guess is he can even get them to pay for the whole thing as well. However, he can’t have his cake and eat it too. He must assume the full financial consequences of a poor outcome. If he’s so positive this is the right surgery for him, then he should have nothing to fear. As for the Olympics, do the Sabres have the right, as defined in the CBA, to deny him from participating? Olympic participation was a collectively bargained item between the NHL and the NHLPA, so under normal circumstances no. How the health question muddies the waters I’m not sure, but I would imagine if Jack passes a physical and is deemed healthy enough to play, the Sabres can’t stop him, unless he was suspended for some reason. 25 minutes ago, Hoss said: This is my preferred path: he gets ADR, gets healthy and rehabs his trade value. I hope the Sabres can be convinced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Hoss said: 41 minutes ago, dudacek said: Olympic participation was a collectively bargained item between the NHL and the NHLPA, so under normal circumstances no. How the health question muddies the waters I’m not sure, but I would imagine if Jack passes a physical and is deemed healthy enough to play, the Sabres can’t stop him, unless he was suspended for some reason. This is my preferred path: he gets ADR, gets healthy and rehabs his trade value. I hope the Sabres can be convinced. Emily Kaplan on Her Segment mentioned Eichel’s Camp is going to put a lot of pressure on the Sabres to allow the ADR and hinted that the next step would be a grievance filing, which She mentioned no one wants. With Teams refusing to meet the Sabres Asking Price and the Sabres refusing to retain, finding a way to minimize the team’s liability and allowing Jack to have the surgery is the best path forward. A more definitive timeline for His Return post surgery, would increase interest in Him On March 21st the Trade Deadline Day, Jack will be owed 2.5 Million for the remainder of the year, that’s easier for teams closer to the cap to bring on His Contract in 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 18 minutes ago, Brawndo said: Emily Kaplan on Her Segment mentioned Eichel’s Camp is going to put a lot of pressure on the Sabres to allow the ADR and hinted that the next step would be a grievance filing, which She mentioned no one wants. With Teams refusing to meet the Sabres Asking Price and the Sabres refusing to retain, finding a way to minimize the team’s liability and allowing Jack to have the surgery is the best path forward. A more definitive timeline for His Return post surgery, would increase interest in Him On March 21st the Trade Deadline Day, Jack will be owed 2.5 Million for the remainder of the year, that’s easier for teams closer to the cap to bring on His Contract in The only way to minimize the risk is if jack signed a waiver to void his deal if the surgery failed right? Doubt he does that 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7+6=13 Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 The Sabres will do whatever is best for the Sabres. The only contention from us would be, if you believe they aren't smart enough to do that. I personally don't believe that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 1 hour ago, dudacek said: Olympic participation was a collectively bargained item between the NHL and the NHLPA, so under normal circumstances no. How the health question muddies the waters I’m not sure, but I would imagine if Jack passes a physical and is deemed healthy enough to play, the Sabres can’t stop him, unless he was suspended for some reason. This is my preferred path: he gets ADR, gets healthy and rehabs his trade value. I hope the Sabres can be convinced. I read in this forum that the insurance company will not cover the ADR. Sounds like they need even more convincing than the Sabres. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 19 minutes ago, aristocrat said: The only way to minimize the risk is if jack signed a waiver to void his deal if the surgery failed right? Doubt he does that This is where the one time carve out agreement between the NHL and PA would come into play. Do they agree to a lower payout of the remainder of the deal if Jack cannot continue His Career? The NHLPA would absolutely despise this, but it might be necessary. The NHL could agree to to assist the Sabres paying of the remainder of the deal, who would be responsible for 25% if the fusion fails anyways. Something they did to prop up struggling franchises in the past, Hi Arizona. The Sabres might be more agreeable, if they are going to have financial backing of the league in case of the doomsday scenario. They could attempt to negotiate a much higher premium with the Insurance Company, particularly with Jack needing surgery, to cover the ADR. Or His Deal gets moved in the Summer to Toronto for Cap Room. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 1 hour ago, aristocrat said: The only way to minimize the risk is if jack signed a waiver to void his deal if the surgery failed right? Doubt he does that He doesn't even need to do that. If he gets treatment that is not approved by the team they are in their rights to void his contract. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 Last time I logged in we were on page 227 only a day, or 2, ago. Now on page 334 and nothing has changed. Is that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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