That Aud Smell Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 6 minutes ago, Let's Go B-Lo said: Let's understand something, despite the narrative, the pressure isn't getting turned up on the Sabres right now. It's squarely on Jack Eichel. Why you ask? Jack Eichel wants to play in the Olympics. I agree that this is a big factor in all of this. Maybe among the very biggest. Eichel fiercely wants to play in the Olympics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, Let's Go B-Lo said: Let's understand something, despite the narrative, the pressure isn't getting turned up on the Sabres right now. It's squarely on Jack Eichel. Why you ask? Jack Eichel wants to play in the Olympics. An event that only happens once every four years. He knows that if he's not healthy and in playing shape he's not going to be chosen and he won't have another opportunity, possibly ever, to play in that event. Any posturing you see from his camp now is an attempt to bring this to a conclusion in a time frame in which Jack can have his preferred treatment, come back, and go to the Olympics. That's all. It's not that his grievance case is suddenly better, it's not and it isn't going to be. It's not that his value to the Sabres will be further diminished if he's not moved a month from now. ALL of the time pressure is on Eichel right now. The Sabres have him on LTIR and his financial impact on the team is the same today as it will be 3 months from now. It makes zero difference to them when this happens it doesn't happen. As of today, that is the Sabres leverage. "You want to play in the Olympics? Then here is what needs to happen. You dont want that? Well shucks, I guess we will see you for your exit interview in April." That will change as the drop dead date for the Olympics passes but, for now, that's the situation. A significantly lesser, but still relevant, factor is the longer the Sabres look semi competent on the ice without him the more he looks like a petulant ass and the less pressure the Sabres have to do something immediately. Nobody wanted the Sabres to start 0-15 and get routinely booed off the ice more than Jack Eichel and Pat Brisson did. If he had the ADR procedure today that gets him back on the ice January 21st given the estimated three month recovery. Even that’s a tight window at best right now for getting to the Olympics. But the window for the fusion procedure has passed and the Olympics are out of the question so I’m not clear on where the Sabres’ leverage is regarding that issue. But the Sabres aren’t under any pressure regardless, so no leverage is required anyway. The only factor I can see that forces the issue from their standpoint is if Pegula grows tired of paying Eichel to do nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norcal Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 19 minutes ago, Let's Go B-Lo said: Let's understand something, despite the narrative, the pressure isn't getting turned up on the Sabres right now. It's squarely on Jack Eichel. Why you ask? Jack Eichel wants to play in the Olympics. An event that only happens once every four years. He knows that if he's not healthy and in playing shape he's not going to be chosen and he won't have another opportunity, possibly ever, to play in that event. Any posturing you see from his camp now is an attempt to bring this to a conclusion in a time frame in which Jack can have his preferred treatment, come back, and go to the Olympics. That's all. It's not that his grievance case is suddenly better, it's not and it isn't going to be. It's not that his value to the Sabres will be further diminished if he's not moved a month from now. ALL of the time pressure is on Eichel right now. The Sabres have him on LTIR and his financial impact on the team is the same today as it will be 3 months from now. It makes zero difference to them when this happens it doesn't happen. As of today, that is the Sabres leverage. "You want to play in the Olympics? Then here is what needs to happen. You dont want that? Well shucks, I guess we will see you for your exit interview in April." That will change as the drop dead date for the Olympics passes but, for now, that's the situation. A significantly lesser, but still relevant, factor is the longer the Sabres look semi competent on the ice without him the more he looks like a petulant ass and the less pressure the Sabres have to do something immediately. Nobody wanted the Sabres to start 0-15 and get routinely booed off the ice more than Jack Eichel and Pat Brisson did. Well said. I'm with this line of thinking also. I'll add that the most pressure being applied right now is by the media, who have decided that the Sabres have to trade Eichel now and any delay is a black eye on the Sabres. Jacks original statement from his end of year presser included a line that said something along the lines of wanting to win, whether that's here OR somewhere else. Everyone, Jack, fans media and the team seized on the somewhere else part and have just continued to drive that narrative into a frenzy. Now it seems there is no turning back but Adams and the Buffalo brass need to stay the course and get the assets they need and deserve for a franchise 1C that Eichel is. Broken, injured or whatever he is doesn't matter. You want him, you pay. Assume the risk, reap the reward. Otherwise don't bother the Sabres with your call. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Norcal said: Well said. I'm with this line of thinking also. I'll add that the most pressure being applied right now is by the media, who have decided that the Sabres have to trade Eichel now and any delay is a black eye on the Sabres. Jacks original statement from his end of year presser included a line that said something along the lines of wanting to win, whether that's here OR somewhere else. Everyone, Jack, fans media and the team seized on the somewhere else part and have just continued to drive that narrative into a frenzy. Now it seems there is no turning back but Adams and the Buffalo brass need to stay the course and get the assets they need and deserve for a franchise 1C that Eichel is. Broken, injured or whatever he is doesn't matter. You want him, you pay. Assume the risk, reap the reward. Otherwise don't bother the Sabres with your call. That statement was very telling, imo. And while I wasn’t driven into a frenzy by it, I took it as a big, “F you, Buffalo” and after supporting him and the team thru all the losing seasons and last place finishes he was a part of, it was clear he was finished here and had to go. And the fact he was disingenuous about the “disconnect” made that even clearer. Edited October 21, 2021 by K-9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Lee Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Let's Go B-Lo said: Let's understand something, despite the narrative, the pressure isn't getting turned up on the Sabres right now. It's squarely on Jack Eichel. Why you ask? Jack Eichel wants to play in the Olympics. An event that only happens once every four years. He knows that if he's not healthy and in playing shape he's not going to be chosen and he won't have another opportunity, possibly ever, to play in that event. Any posturing you see from his camp now is an attempt to bring this to a conclusion in a time frame in which Jack can have his preferred treatment, come back, and go to the Olympics. That's all. It's not that his grievance case is suddenly better, it's not and it isn't going to be. It's not that his value to the Sabres will be further diminished if he's not moved a month from now. ALL of the time pressure is on Eichel right now. The Sabres have him on LTIR and his financial impact on the team is the same today as it will be 3 months from now. It makes zero difference to them when this happens it doesn't happen. As of today, that is the Sabres leverage. "You want to play in the Olympics? Then here is what needs to happen. You dont want that? Well shucks, I guess we will see you for your exit interview in April." That will change as the drop dead date for the Olympics passes but, for now, that's the situation. A significantly lesser, but still relevant, factor is the longer the Sabres look semi competent on the ice without him the more he looks like a petulant ass and the less pressure the Sabres have to do something immediately. Nobody wanted the Sabres to start 0-15 and get routinely booed off the ice more than Jack Eichel and Pat Brisson did. I'm firmly in the Sabres' camp on this matter. I think the Sabres' are taking the good faith position that the only safe surgical procedure is a fusion. I think that the Sabres have zero intention in pressuring Eichel to have a fusion if he is not comfortable with it. Finally, I agree with their stance of not trading Eichel for less than fair value just because there are some teams that are willing to roll the dice on the ADR procedure. If a team is willing to allow Eichel to have ADR then they should pay the appropriate trade-value based on the assumption that Eichel will be able to play at a high-level for them. The Sabres have no legal or moral obligation to simply give Jack Eichel's playing rights away because he and a handful or teams are prepared to assume the risk that comes with him resuming his NHL career post-ADR. That said, if I ever come to the point where I think the Sabres are trying to put any pressure on Eichel to have a fusion then my view will change. Nobody should ever be forced or pressured to have a procedure as invasive as a cervical fusion. At some point if there is no remedy for this impasse via trade or grievance, then Eichel will need to make a decision on whether he intends to continue his career by having the fusion or if he is going to retire from hockey. That should be his decision alone. Edited October 21, 2021 by Archie Lee 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 1 hour ago, K-9 said: If he had the ADR procedure today that gets him back on the ice January 21st given the estimated three month recovery. Even that’s a tight window at best right now for getting to the Olympics. But the window for the fusion procedure has passed and the Olympics are out of the question so I’m not clear on where the Sabres’ leverage is regarding that issue. But the Sabres aren’t under any pressure regardless, so no leverage is required anyway. The only factor I can see that forces the issue from their standpoint is if Pegula grows tired of paying Eichel to do nothing. There's another scenario which has him playing in the Olympics.... the disc is in fact healing, albeit slowly. 1 hour ago, K-9 said: If he had the ADR procedure today that gets him back on the ice January 21st given the estimated three month recovery. Even that’s a tight window at best right now for getting to the Olympics. But the window for the fusion procedure has passed and the Olympics are out of the question so I’m not clear on where the Sabres’ leverage is regarding that issue. But the Sabres aren’t under any pressure regardless, so no leverage is required anyway. The only factor I can see that forces the issue from their standpoint is if Pegula grows tired of paying Eichel to do nothing. There's another scenario which has him playing in the Olympics.... the disc is in fact healing, albeit slowly. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 12 minutes ago, pi2000 said: There's another scenario which has him playing in the Olympics.... the disc is in fact healing, albeit slowly. There's another scenario which has him playing in the Olympics.... the disc is in fact healing, albeit slowly. Also not out of the realm of possibility. Certainly in the area of unlikely though. It’s my understanding that given past prognoses, if significant re-absorption of the disc hasn’t occurred after that initial 12 week time frame, then surgery likely has to happen to fix it. But again, stranger things have happened. It would be a great outcome for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustache of God Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 Reading the comments above I'd say the ideal scenario would be the disc heals on itself, Eichel is able to compete in the Olympics and while doing so, lights it the ***** up with a gold medal - showing the NHL he's back and then GMKA can get an overpayment on him. 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norcal Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 19 minutes ago, pi2000 said: There's another scenario which has him playing in the Olympics.... the disc is in fact healing, albeit slowly. The simplest solution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 4 hours ago, LabattBlue said: If the calls KA is making/receiving on John all end rather quickly because of KA's demands, then maybe it is time to realize the asking price has to be lowered. He knows his player is broken, and value is greatly diminished. So cave and blame KA for caving? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, SabresVet said: Brisson took over in late August, which is about 2 months. If they're looking for new evidence to support ADR that's not unrealistic time frame as I'm sure it involves finding others surgeons/doctors and gathering medical data on the procedure. Because I'm sure there wasn't a transition of data from the Peter's team to the new agent. I assume the Sabres could present just as many respected spinal surgeons who would give their viewpoints. Edited October 21, 2021 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Archie Lee said: I'm firmly in the Sabres' camp on this matter. I think the Sabres' are taking the good faith position that the only safe surgical procedure is a fusion. I think that the Sabres have zero intention in pressuring Eichel to have a fusion if he is not comfortable with it. Finally, I agree with their stance of not trading Eichel for less than fair value just because there are some teams that are willing to roll the dice on the ADR procedure. If a team is willing to allow Eichel to have ADR then they should pay the appropriate trade-value based on the assumption that Eichel will be able to play at a high-level for them. The Sabres have no legal or moral obligation to simply give Jack Eichel's playing rights away because he and a handful or teams are prepared to assume the risk that comes with him resuming his NHL career post-ADR. That said, if I ever come to the point where I think the Sabres are trying to put any pressure on Eichel to have a fusion then my view will change. Nobody should ever be forced or pressured to have a procedure as invasive as a cervical fusion. At some point if there is no remedy for this impasse via trade or grievance, then Eichel will need to make a decision on whether he intends to continue his career by having the fusion or if he is going to retire from hockey. That should be his decision alone. I feel the media has been downplaying the severity that ADR surgery represents. If Jack was going to retire, by all means get the ADR. But if he wants to keep playing in the NHL he is taking a massive risk by going the ADR route. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 1 hour ago, pi2000 said: There's another scenario which has him playing in the Olympics.... the disc is in fact healing, albeit slowly. This actually is my hope. And really, it could lead to a reconciliation with the team. If he heals without having to have surgery on his neck, plays in the Olympics, and returns after that to lead be a part of a drive to the playoffs, he may realize that the Sabres really were acting in everyone's mutual best interest. If all he wants to do is win, winning with Buffalo should satisfy him. In fact it may be more satisfying to win here compared to anywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 10 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: So cave and blame KA for caving? Did I say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, LabattBlue said: Did I say that? What else does this mean? "then maybe it is time to realize the asking price has to be lowered." I take it as accept a lower offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 Just now, PromoTheRobot said: What else does this mean? "then maybe it is time to realize the asking price has to be lowered." I take it as accept a lower offer. I am talking about asking him to lower his price, and then turn around and blame him for lowering his price. I did not say the latter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: But if he wants to keep playing in the NHL he is taking an indeterminate risk by going the ADR route. fify: I think this is the point. No one really knows what the risk is, because there's very little applicable data. There is no high-end hockey data, only limited data from other contact sports (this guy, I suppose, with a ton of disclaimers in the video). But are the loads experienced by a mixed martial arts fighter comparable to an NHL player? Sure they both see a lot of contact, but the MMA fighter isn't flying around at 20+ mph prior to impact. 7 minutes ago, LabattBlue said: Did I say that? It's the inevitable consequence of KA accepting a ROR-like return. You may not blame him, but popular opinion will. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 1 minute ago, The Ghost of Yuri said: It's the inevitable consequence of KA accepting a ROR-like return. You may not blame him, but popular opinion will. Not from me. 😊 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, The Ghost of Yuri said: It's the inevitable consequence of KA accepting a ROR-like return. You may not blame him, but popular opinion will. It was a bad return though, I keep saying look at what Duchene got Colorado. We should not be below that for Eihel at all. RoR return is starting to look okish with Tage turning into a 3C and Johnson being a very solid D prospect now and maybe future 4D. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 On John playing for Team USA, I believe he needs team permission, and there is no way in heck he is getting that permission if he is still a Sabre. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 16 minutes ago, LabattBlue said: On John playing for Team USA, I believe he needs team permission, and there is no way in heck he is getting that permission if he is still a Sabre. I disagree. That seems like the perfect ( and only, if they don't want him on the Sabres) opportunity for Jack to show he has healed enough to play at a high level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Hank said: I disagree. That seems like the perfect ( and only, if they don't want him on the Sabres) opportunity for Jack to show he has healed enough to play at a high level. …and what happens if he re-injures his neck at the Olympics? Then how would you feel? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 9 minutes ago, LabattBlue said: …and what happens if he re-injures his neck at the Olympics? Then how would you feel? Odd question. Like any rational person, I'd feel the exact same way I feel now. Wouldn't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Hank said: Odd question. Like any rational person, I'd feel the exact same way I feel now. Wouldn't you? I’d feel better if he was some other teams property, and the Olympic question is their problem. 😉 Edited October 21, 2021 by LabattBlue 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 9 minutes ago, LabattBlue said: I’d feel better if he was some other teams property, and the Olympic question is their problem? 😉 That we can agree on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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