Broken Ankles Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 4 hours ago, The Ghost of Yuri said: I see it the other way around. If he's only paying $2.5 million per year for Jack to do nothing, why would he want to pay a million or two for him to do something for another team? Is this a number you have seen or heard that the Sabres are paying and the remaining salary is paid by Insurance? I’ve read somewhere that after 30 games lost Insurance kicks in but I don’t think I’ve seen anything specific regarding Jack. If so would you share? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 10 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said: Is this a number you have seen or heard that the Sabres are paying and the remaining salary is paid by Insurance? I’ve read somewhere that after 30 games lost Insurance kicks in but I don’t think I’ve seen anything specific regarding Jack. If so would you share? I've heard on the forum here that insurance pays 75% of an injured player's salary. If that's wrong, whatever. I'm not going to hunt down the policy and read through it. If someone has better information I'll try to find a spot my addled brain to squirrel that nut away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billznut Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 4 hours ago, freester said: Ecklund says Eichel to St Louis. FWIW 😂😂😂 Eichel and O’Reilly as teammates again. And St Louis can send us whatever castoffs we didn’t get in the last trade with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miles Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 At this point I would just tell jack he is ubtradeable and will just have to stay on ltir indefinitely. I Cant imagine a player with his ego would let ths rest of his career pass him by and i would think buffalo has some recourse with the league if he sits out the next 7 years or whatever he has left Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 (edited) 16 hours ago, dudacek said: I'm just relaying what I heard. Friedman and Marek said the NHL has signed one-off deals from time to time that specifically state they cannot be used a precedent in any future case. League sources seem to be more sympathetic to the situation than Sabrespace and perhaps more cognizant of PR, legal and future CBA costs an ugly standoff here could spark. Couple that with more info about ADR and maybe some are thinking that a partnership underwriting the surgery is less risky than the alternative. Just speculating. I had speculated a month or two ago that the NHL may step in and somehow get this resolved. Now what this “one off” deal/assistance from Bettman & Co may be, who knows? Edited October 21, 2021 by LabattBlue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 Who's the head pasted onto Eichel's body? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, The Ghost of Yuri said: Who's the head pasted onto Eichel's body? Crying Michael Jordan. It's an often used meme. https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/crying-michael-jordan Here's another... Edited October 21, 2021 by PromoTheRobot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 Friedman talking Jack right now on Marek's show. He says what many on here have been saying: "Jack's agents are trying to ratchet up the pressure" He also says the Sabres are pushing back; that's the genesis of the Risto reference, and Adams' repeated mentions of pressure points: to get the message out that Eichel will be flipped when the Sabres get what they think is value, not before. And he reiterated his sense that the Eichel camp is working hard to create the groundwork for a grievance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, dudacek said: Friedman talking Jack right now on Marek's show. He says what many on here have been saying: "Jack's agents are trying to ratchet up the pressure" He also says the Sabres are pushing back; that's the genesis of the Risto reference, and Adams' repeated mentions of pressure points: to get the message out that Eichel will be flipped when the Sabres get what they think is value, not before. And he reiterated his sense that the Eichel camp is working hard to create the groundwork for a grievance. It wouldn't surprise me if the "groundwork for a grievance" is basically just "build and present this case to the league and players association and we'll figure something out". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 1 minute ago, darksabre said: It wouldn't surprise me if the "groundwork for a grievance" is basically just "build and present this case to the league and players association and we'll figure something out". From the context it seems to me its primary purpose is to create another lever to pressure Adams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, dudacek said: From the context it seems to me its primary purpose is to create another lever to pressure Adams. I don't see how that works unless Eichel's grievance position is suddenly substantially stronger than it was six months ago. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 15 minutes ago, dudacek said: Friedman talking Jack right now on Marek's show. He says what many on here have been saying: "Jack's agents are trying to ratchet up the pressure" He also says the Sabres are pushing back; that's the genesis of the Risto reference, and Adams' repeated mentions of pressure points: to get the message out that Eichel will be flipped when the Sabres get what they think is value, not before. And he reiterated his sense that the Eichel camp is working hard to create the groundwork for a grievance. If the calls KA is making/receiving on John all end rather quickly because of KA's demands, then maybe it is time to realize the asking price has to be lowered. He knows his player is broken, and value is greatly diminished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, darksabre said: I don't see how that works unless Eichel's grievance position is suddenly substantially stronger than it was six months ago. He mentioned emphasizing two points: The rule is not in place to block players from getting reasonable treatment. Brisson's team is collecting evidence backing their contention ADR is reasonable treatment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 The pressure could come in the form of there is no way the Sabres are going to get Their Asking Price with Jack being a minimum of 3 Months away from attempting to get back on the ice in a meaningful way. Couple this with Their Unwillingness to retain on salary, finding a way to limit their liability and allowing the ADR to occur might be their only way forward. I’m of the belief that if Jack finishing His Contract with the Sabres was each party’s goal, He would have had the ADR back in June. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Brawndo said: I’m of the belief that if Jack finishing His Contract with the Sabres was each party’s goal, He would have had the ADR back in June. An obvious yet profound statement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, dudacek said: He mentioned emphasizing two points: The rule is not in place to block players from getting reasonable treatment. Brisson's team is collecting evidence backing their contention ADR is reasonable treatment. If they can put together a case that actually succeeds in the grievance, then I think that greatly benefits the Sabres, no? Wouldn't it basically solve all their issues with respect to stuff like insurance? Wouldn't it assuage some of the concerns other teams have too? If anything doesn't this improve Adams position and increase Eichel's value? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 12 minutes ago, LabattBlue said: If the calls KA is making/receiving on John all end rather quickly because of KA's demands, then maybe it is time to realize the asking price has to be lowered. He knows his player is broken, and value is greatly diminished. But again: why is now the time to reduce his price? Sure, many fans and sports media types are sick of the whole thing and want to move on, but that's not a good reason from KA's perspective. From his perspective, if he waits, say, 6 weeks, the offers he's getting won't get any worse, but there is a decent chance that his situation will improve, because either (i) teams like the Habs, the Rangers and Vegas will have crappy starts and feel the pressure to make a move, thus increasing their offers to KA or (ii) Eichel will get antsy and have fusion surgery. I just don't see any reason for him to do anything now. He clearly isn't feeling any pressure from TP to bring in players in trade to help the team this year. And right now the team looks much improved (although the air will probably leak out of the balloon at some point). 8 minutes ago, dudacek said: He mentioned emphasizing two points: The rule is not in place to block players from getting reasonable treatment. Brisson's team is collecting evidence backing their contention ADR is reasonable treatment. This seems like more agent BS that's been fed to Friedman. They've had months to "collect evidence." They haven't launched the medical grievance procedure because they know they will lose. I don't blame Brisson for fabricating stuff in an attempt to pressure KA to lower his price -- that is what Brisson is supposed to do -- but it seems pretty clear that KA, rightly, sees through it and isn't going to be swayed by it. 3 minutes ago, Brawndo said: The pressure could come in the form of there is no way the Sabres are going to get Their Asking Price with Jack being a minimum of 3 Months away from attempting to get back on the ice in a meaningful way. Couple this with Their Unwillingness to retain on salary, finding a way to limit their liability and allowing the ADR to occur might be their only way forward. I’m of the belief that if Jack finishing His Contract with the Sabres was each party’s goal, He would have had the ADR back in June. This could very well prove out, but there is no reason in the world for KA to make a move now. Time is on his side for at least the next couple of months. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 18 minutes ago, Brawndo said: The pressure could come in the form of there is no way the Sabres are going to get Their Asking Price with Jack being a minimum of 3 Months away from attempting to get back on the ice in a meaningful way. Couple this with Their Unwillingness to retain on salary, finding a way to limit their liability and allowing the ADR to occur might be their only way forward. I’m of the belief that if Jack finishing His Contract with the Sabres was each party’s goal, He would have had the ADR back in June. The crux of this issue always seems to come back to the actual merits of ADR and the sincerity of those celebrating or demonizing it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresVet Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 7 minutes ago, nfreeman said: This seems like more agent BS that's been fed to Friedman. They've had months to "collect evidence." They haven't launched the medical grievance procedure because they know they will lose. Brisson took over in late August, which is about 2 months. If they're looking for new evidence to support ADR that's not unrealistic time frame as I'm sure it involves finding others surgeons/doctors and gathering medical data on the procedure. Because I'm sure there wasn't a transition of data from the Peter's team to the new agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 24 minutes ago, dudacek said: He mentioned emphasizing two points: The rule is not in place to block players from getting reasonable treatment. Brisson's team is collecting evidence backing their contention ADR is reasonable treatment. Good luck with that as one of the major issues regarding cervical ADR performed on anyone, let alone athletes in contact sports, let alone hockey players, is the lack of data relative to outcomes, especially long term. It’s just too relatively new of a procedure to have established the necessary body of information required. Which is also one of the reasons many insurance companies won’t cover the procedure. The same “evidence backing their contention” has been available to them the entire time. So has the evidence suggesting that fusion is the better option. I doubt the majority medical opinion has shifted in the six months since Eichel’s injury. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 If Eichel were to win the grievance would the insurance company then insure the contract? If the league were to step in and insure the contract perhaps there is a chance to mend the fences with Eichel as long as he an adult about the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, aristocrat said: If Eichel were to win the grievance would the insurance company then insure the contract? I'm gonna say no. If you're the insurance company, a determination by the insured doesn't alter the policy (unless specifically provided for in the policy). They have their own army of doctors to say no. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 18 minutes ago, K-9 said: Good luck with that as one of the major issues regarding cervical ADR performed on anyone, let alone athletes in contact sports, let alone hockey players, is the lack of data relative to outcomes, especially long term. It’s just too relatively new of a procedure to have established the necessary body of information required. Which is also one of the reasons many insurance companies won’t cover the procedure. The same “evidence backing their contention” has been available to them the entire time. So has the evidence suggesting that fusion is the better option. I doubt the majority medical opinion has shifted in the six months since Eichel’s injury. I wonder if the approach isn't so much to argue the merits of ADR as it is to try to show that there is a history of experimental surgeries having taken place in the NHL that would have been considered of similar uncertainty to ADR at the time they were employed. Prove that the Sabres caution over the ADR is out of line with league medical practices over the last, I dunno, let's say 20 years or something. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 21, 2021 Report Share Posted October 21, 2021 1 minute ago, darksabre said: I wonder if the approach isn't so much to argue the merits of ADR as it is to try to show that there is a history of experimental surgeries having taken place in the NHL that would have been considered of similar uncertainty to ADR at the time they were employed. Prove that the Sabres caution over the ADR is out of line with league medical practices over the last, I dunno, let's say 20 years or something. Again, good luck with that. But it’s an interesting angle none the less. I’d be interested as well in previous establishment of acceptance of experimental medical practices in the league. As far as specific established practices regarding treatment of cervical disc issues in players, the only two I can find reference to are Letang and Dorsett. Both had the fusion. Both came back to play. Dorsett had to retire because of recurring issues with his neck while Letang is still playing at an All Star level. Outcomes are never certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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