A Knights Tale: From Sabre to Knight; one man’s failure to make the playoffs AND how it benefits the Sabres draft position

[dudacek]

I find it fascinating how in its brief history Vegas has embodied both sides of the American psyche.

The light of the lovable rejects banding together and pulling themselves up by the bootstraps.

And the dark of the cult of celebrity and the ruthless pursuit of winning at all costs.

 

Edited April 19, 2022 by dudacek

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, SwampD said:

We have one more win than them. Of course, the 3 OT/SO losses make it look much better for us,… I guess.

 

As long as we can make fun of Jack…

 

Why do you care if there's a thread where ppl don't like Eichel? 

I'll understand going into a thread you don't like to tell ppl stuff like this. 

[SwampD]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Why do you care if there's a thread where ppl don't like Eichel? 

I'll understand going into a thread you don't like to tell ppl stuff like this. 

I was just wondering this myself. I have always said that hate for hate’s sake is fine in sports, cuz it doesn’t mean anything. It just bugs me in this case. I think it’s because i feel it is misplaced.

As you know, I never thought the Tank was the answer. So hating the guy who (I felt) was put in a no win situation just feels ugly to me.

I’ll stop.

Hate away. It’s what makes sports great, after all.

[MattPie]

24 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

That 3rd goal referenced above.

https://video.twimg.com/tweet_video/FQreGZuXoAEh9ug.mp4

Hey, everyone has those "Wait, what am I supposed to be doing again?" moments.

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, SwampD said:

I was just wondering this myself. I have always said that hate for hate’s sake is fine in sports, cuz it doesn’t mean anything. It just bugs me in this case. I think it’s because i feel it is misplaced.

As you know, I never thought the Tank was the answer. So hating the guy who (I felt) was put in a no win situation just feels ugly to me.

I’ll stop.

Hate away. It’s what makes sports great, after all.

I think for some it's cathartic after the last 7 years

[Flashsabre]

25 minutes ago, SwampD said:

We have one more win than them. Of course, the 3 OT/SO losses make it look much better for us,… I guess.

 

As long as we can make fun of Jack…

 

I just don’t get what your whole point is here.

You love Jack and are mad everyone else doesn’t? You want us supporting Jack in Vegas and cheering for him to do great things?

People want to see Vegas lose for 3 reasons:

1) We have their first round pick. We want it to be the best pick possible.

2) Jack was a complete dick when he came back here.

3) Vegas had every advantage given to them when they entered the league. They had it made and then they got greedy and started screwing over their core people. Gallant, Fleury, etc.

[WhenWillItEnd66]

21 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

Welcome!

Thank you! Been a peeping John and just reading and decided to start posting again. Used to be on Sabresfans but left many years ago.... 

[LGR4GM]

 

[Doohickie]

11 minutes ago, SwampD said:

As you know, I never thought the Tank was the answer. So hating the guy who (I felt) was put in a no win situation just feels ugly to me.

I think for many, myself included, Jack became the symbol or embodiment of the Tank and all the other poor decisions this organization has made over the last decade.  We wanted him to be the savior but he simply wasn't.  Was it his fault?  I feel he was a contributor but just one of many.  Yet it seems almost as though the instant he was traded away the team's fortunes changed.

I don't much like Jack.  When he was here it was kind of.... "He's a jerk, but he's our jerk, dammit!" and I supported him because I supported the team.  But now he's just a jerk to me. 

Now that he's gone it feels to me that the air has cleared around the Sabres.  How much of that was the symbolic Jack and how much of that was the person Jack I don't know, but in either case I'm glad Jack's gone.  And to further justify that inclination, I hope he never makes the playoffs while the Sabres win the Cup in the next handful of years.

Is that mature?  No.  Is that spiteful?  You bet yer dupah.  Such is sports.

[triumph_communes]

10 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

The Knights will never win with Lehner in net. Trading Fleury and signing Lehner long term is an all time blunder that will haunt that franchise.

Let’s get the two headcase choke artists from Buffalo. That’s a path to success!

[Doohickie]

11 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

I just don’t get what your whole point is here.

You love Jack and are mad everyone else doesn’t? You want us supporting Jack in Vegas and cheering for him to do great things?

People want to see Vegas lose for 3 reasons:

1) We have their first round pick. We want it to be the best pick possible.

2) Jack was a complete dick when he came back here.

3) Vegas had every advantage given to them when they entered the league. They had it made and then they got greedy and started screwing over their core people. Gallant, Fleury, etc.

Nope.  That's not it.  I never really liked him, even before #2.

[Doohickie]

17 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 

As of this morning VGK has less than a 15% chance.  🙂

[SwampD]

 

31 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

I just don’t get what your whole point is here.

You love Jack and are mad everyone else doesn’t? You want us supporting Jack in Vegas and cheering for him to do great things?

People want to see Vegas lose for 3 reasons:

1) We have their first round pick. We want it to be the best pick possible.

2) Jack was a complete dick when he came back here.

3) Vegas had every advantage given to them when they entered the league. They had it made and then they got greedy and started screwing over their core people. Gallant, Fleury, etc.

Wuh? Not sure how you got there.

I don’t love Jack. He’s irrelevant to me.

I’d rather talk about the Sabres being good than another team being bad. In the end, it’s all that matters.

[PASabreFan]

43 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 

Two amps of sodium kaopectate STAT!

[Marvin]

58 minutes ago, SwampD said:

I was just wondering this myself. I have always said that hate for hate’s sake is fine in sports, cuz it doesn’t mean anything. It just bugs me in this case. I think it’s because i feel it is misplaced.

As you know, I never thought the Tank was the answer. So hating the guy who (I felt) was put in a no win situation just feels ugly to me.

I personally can't waste my time and energy hating everyone who wronged me badly in some way.  And what Eichel said was trivial by comparison to what I am talking about.

I agree with you on Eichel basically being in a no-win situation.  One of the reasons that I hated The Tank was it psychologically set up the fans, the management, and the team to place Eichel as a savior, which was unfair to him.  Moreover, XGMTM was clueless on defence, depth, and character while XGMJB was clueless on forwards, depth, and support for the youth.  So Buffalo was a bad, bad situation for Eichel, Reinhart, et al. -- and, as the most talented players, they were expected to take the blame.

The blame for the teams failures during their time here primarily belongs above them for failing to create an environment which would help them grow and mature.  It was if both GMs acted as if it would just magically happen.  It is one thing for fans to fall into this trap, but it is inexcusable for management.  Yes, they had their faults and exacerbated a bad situation, but they should never have been put into that situation on the first place.

Aside 1: my wish for LVGK to fail this season long pre-dates the Eichel press conference: how they treated Marc-Andre Fleury and overall how their management treats their players; their salary Cap shenanigans; the condescension of their band-wagon fans; my preference for ensemble play over hired guns; the NHL seeming helping conspire with them to deliver on their owner's promise of a Cup within 5 seasons.  (I blame their immediate success on the myopia of the other 30 GMs.)

Aside 2: @SwampD -- the Sabres have deserved to be a league-wide punch line for over a decade.  Going DeLuca 0.500 from the Las Vegas game to the St. Louis game is not an accident; it is the first extended time of overall quality ensemble play since Lindy Ruff was coach.  While the decent play may or may not carry over to next season, I would have guaranteed that continued awful play certainly would have sustained into next season.  Just not being a punching bag and getting a modicum of respect from players around the league matters to the players, the franchise as an entity, and to the fans.  I imagine we over-sell it, but hey, that's part of being a fan.

Edited April 19, 2022 by Marvin, Sabres Fan

[Marvin]

Anyone who needs proof that DeBoer should not be a head coach should check his post game comments where he seemed to exclusively blame Lehner for the loss -- omitting the mess the team is in their own zone, the defencemen turning the puck over in the defencive zone with alacrity, and his scorers firing blanks.

Just musing: anyone else remember Lehner criticising players (who we inferred were Eichel and Reinhart) for listening to Kane and Bogosian rather than Gionta?  It sure looks to me like Lehner is far less trusting of the team around him when Eichel is on the ice.  How much of that vibe between them has penetrated the locker room?

[That Aud Smell]

 

Btw, those #'s aren't ... great. OTOH, the #'s probably start to skew better for the Sabres if you measure from the date that the 2 teams played HTH.

[WhenWillItEnd66]

I do not hate Eichel, he is a very incredibly skilled player who was 100% not ready for what the Sabres needed him to be. Is he a douche? Yeppers! A butthurt one to boot! But getting the better draft pick by Vegas not making the playoffs is a nice help as this year is a decent draft. Eventually Eichel will grow up and be a very likable player again. Until then, would love to see a 2 picks in the top 15 this year!

[Broken Ankles]

1 hour ago, Flashsabre said:

I just don’t get what your whole point is here.

You love Jack and are mad everyone else doesn’t? You want us supporting Jack in Vegas and cheering for him to do great things?

People want to see Vegas lose for 3 reasons:

1) We have their first round pick. We want it to be the best pick possible.

2) Jack was a complete dick when he came back here.

3) Vegas had every advantage given to them when they entered the league. They had it made and then they got greedy and started screwing over their core people. Gallant, Fleury, etc.

4.) salary cap circumvention -  we have recently seen this benefit the team taking on players/trades.  It would be nice to see one work against a team. 

[nfreeman]

1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said:

 

Btw, those #'s aren't ... great. OTOH, the #'s probably start to skew better for the Sabres if you measure from the date that the 2 teams played HTH.

I'll see those crappy Vegas #s and raise you these:

Vegas -- 29 games with Eichel -- 13-14-2

Vegas -- 29 games immediately before Eichel joined the lineup:  17-9-3

I'll say it:  it seems quite possible that there is something about Eichel's game, or something about his personality, or both, that brings his teammates down.

[JustOneParade]

I am of the opinion that the Sabres are better off right now, and with a brighter future, than they had with Eichel in spite of his obvious talents. It may turn out to be that the neck injury and the subsequent scuffling about its remedy will be the best thing that's happened to the Sabres. Because in the absence of the injury I'm not sure when, or even if, a trade ever would have been made. Trying to build around a $10M/year disenchanted and immature foundational piece was only going to prolong the Sabres misery. Again, JMO.

[Norcal]

Who thinks Eichel will end up in Boston within 3 years? I do.

[Norcal]

20 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I'll see those crappy Vegas #s and raise you these:

Vegas -- 29 games with Eichel -- 13-14-2

Vegas -- 29 games immediately before Eichel joined the lineup:  17-9-3

I'll say it:  it seems quite possible that there is something about Eichel's game, or something about his personality, or both, that brings his teammates down.

Bummer

[ddaryl]

20 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I'll see those crappy Vegas #s and raise you these:

Vegas -- 29 games with Eichel -- 13-14-2

Vegas -- 29 games immediately before Eichel joined the lineup:  17-9-3

I'll say it:  it seems quite possible that there is something about Eichel's game, or something about his personality, or both, that brings his teammates down.

Small sample size but I tend to agree. Something about Eichel just did not gel with whatever we tried with him. Skinners 1st year appears to be an outlier.

 

[That Aud Smell]

27 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I'll see those crappy Vegas #s and raise you these:

Vegas -- 29 games with Eichel -- 13-14-2

Vegas -- 29 games immediately before Eichel joined the lineup:  17-9-3

I'll say it:  it seems quite possible that there is something about Eichel's game, or something about his personality, or both, that brings his teammates down.

Interesting. I've heard over and over that Las Vegas has lost an incredible number of games from its key players this season. I do wonder whether they were (arguably) a healthier team over that ~30 game stretch before Eichel was activated.

That said, I smell smoke and am thinking there's fire.