Lehner: Mediocre or the Goalie of the Future?

[Thorny]

Here's the thing: has he gotten better at all? I've seen zero development in his game. He remains, to my eye, gloriously average.

But he hasn't regressed, and being so young, he very well could still improve. Hit his development jump a little later maybe.

 

For being so young, he's done a pretty good job of establishing himself as reliable. You know what you are going to get. The bottom isn't falling out as with other goalies like Hutchinson in WPG, for example.

[TrueBlueGED]

But he hasn't regressed, and being so young, he very well could still improve. Hit his development jump a little later maybe.

 

For being so young, he's done a pretty good job of establishing himself as reliable. You know what you are going to get. The bottom isn't falling out as with other goalies like Hutchinson in WPG, for example.

Right, I don't think he's bad or anything. I just haven't seen anything that suggests growth potential beyond age...and at some point his games played should count more than his birth date.

[Thorny]

Right, I don't think he's bad or anything. I just haven't seen anything that suggests growth potential beyond age...and at some point his games played should count more than his birth date.

Very true.

 

They say that's a little later for goalies though, right? He's 24, that seems more like forward-breakout-territory from what I remember.

 

Edit: damn, he's 26! :lol:

 

That changes things, definitely. We should probably be seeing something by around now.

 

Maybe his current streak keeps up? Either way, I wouldn't rule out the potential for at least marginal development. He's gotta learn to do something when facing a breakaway.

 

But I agree that upper echelon level of goalies in today's game is likely unreachable for him.

Edited December 11, 2017 by Bjorn Borg

[PASabreFan]

What happens when Jack has a breakaway on Robin?

[darksabre]

What happens when Jack has a breakaway on Robin?

[LGR4GM]

Very true.

 

They say that's a little later for goalies though, right? He's 24, that seems more like forward-breakout-territory from what I remember.

 

Edit: damn, he's 26! :lol:

 

That changes things, definitely. We should probably be seeing something by around now.

 

There it is

[MattPie]

What happens when Jack has a breakaway on Robin?

 

[PASabreFan]

Good stuff, gents. All I had a was simple Worlds Collide comment from Seinfeld.

[dudacek]

Here's the thing: has he gotten better at all? I've seen zero development in his game. He remains, to my eye, gloriously average.

A more pertinent question: has any prospect acquired or drafted by the Sabres in the past five years gotten better?

Ristolainen is the only one.

[WildCard]

A more pertinent question: has any prospect acquired or drafted by the Sabres in the past five years gotten better?

Ristolainen is the only one.

Eichel, Risto...Erod?

[dudacek]

Thought about ERod, but really, it’s been two games, and even if he keeps it up, what’s to prevent him from regressing like Larsson and Girgensons and Reinhart, and (to a lesser degree McCabe).

 

Does anyone other than Blue think Eichel is better than last year?

 

Grigorenko and Kassian and Armia and Zadorov? Never came close to the hype.

 

Foligno, Pysyk, Ennis, Stafford? They all flashed and then became just a guy.

 

Say what you want about the flaws of Darcy’s core, but Vanek and Miller and Campbell and Roy and Pominville, they all lived up to their promise as prospects.

 

It’s been a long time since anyone else has.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Mick O’Manly

[thewookie1]

Thought about ERod, but really, it’s been two games, and even if he keeps it up, what’s to prevent him from regressing like Larsson and Girgensons and Reinhart, and (to a lesser degree McCabe).

 

Does anyone other than Blue think Eichel is better than last year?

 

Grigorenko and Kassian and Armia and Zadorov? Never came close to the hype.

 

Foligno, Pysyk, Ennis, Stafford? They all flashed and then became just a guy.

 

Say what you want about the flaws of Darcy’s core, but Vanek and Miller and Campbell and Roy and Pominville, they all lived up to their promise as prospects.

 

It’s been a long time since anyone else has.

Eichel has improved defensively to some degree, he’s just being more of an assist guy than the goal scorer we saw the past 2 years

[LGR4GM]

Thought about ERod, but really, it’s been two games, and even if he keeps it up, what’s to prevent him from regressing like Larsson and Girgensons and Reinhart, and (to a lesser degree McCabe).

 

Does anyone other than Blue think Eichel is better than last year?

 

Grigorenko and Kassian and Armia and Zadorov? Never came close to the hype.

 

Foligno, Pysyk, Ennis, Stafford? They all flashed and then became just a guy.

 

Say what you want about the flaws of Darcy’s core, but Vanek and Miller and Campbell and Roy and Pominville, they all lived up to their promise as prospects.

 

It’s been a long time since anyone else has.

To answer the opening question, Erod can skate.

A more pertinent question: has any prospect acquired or drafted by the Sabres in the past five years gotten better?

Ristolainen is the only one.

Olofsson, Asplund, Guhle, all have gotten better. The issue at the nhl level is rushing guys and not proper teaching and development. Couple that with poor drafting and here we are.

[Thorny]

Thought about ERod, but really, it’s been two games, and even if he keeps it up, what’s to prevent him from regressing like Larsson and Girgensons and Reinhart, and (to a lesser degree McCabe).

Does anyone other than Blue think Eichel is better than last year?

Grigorenko and Kassian and Armia and Zadorov? Never came close to the hype.

Foligno, Pysyk, Ennis, Stafford? They all flashed and then became just a guy.

Say what you want about the flaws of Darcy’s core, but Vanek and Miller and Campbell and Roy and Pominville, they all lived up to their promise as prospects.

It’s been a long time since anyone else has.

Eichel has improved defensively to some degree, he’s just being more of an assist guy than the goal scorer we saw the past 2 years

The best we've seen from Eichel so far, I'd say unquestionably, is that stretch early in 2017 where Jack was leading the league in points for a month or so. He was dominant.

 

So he improved from year 1 to year 2, but has regressed slightly year 2 to year 3. I'm not worried about Jack, though, as he's still playing fairly well and his numbers are pretty good, if not what we expected.

 

It's not the regression that bothers me, in small amounts, but the complete bottoming out we've seen from guys like Sam Reinhart and Zemgus Girgensons. And Johan Larsson. Etc. Nylander may be headed down this route, but we'll have to see with him.

 

I'm trying to keep my expectations reasonable with a guy like Mittelstadt. He's having a solid freshman year, but he's not close to ripping it up in the way that someone like Keller did. My hope for guys like Mittelstadt, Pu, Asplund, and Guhle is that they become productive, main-stay NHLers for the Sabres. I think they have a chance of that, but "consistent NHLer" is the limit of where I'll set my expectations.

 

It's up to Botterill to continue drafting enough of these guys that eventually the sheer numbers result in bonafide NHLers.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Bjorn Borg

[Scottysabres]

Mediocre goalie of the future? Is that an option? If so I vote that.

[matter2003]

His career worst save percentage in NHL history in shootouts is enough to say no...we can't afford to be giving away any types of points, especially once we get good. That can be the difference between a 6th and 8th seed or missing the playoffs all together...

[North Buffalo]

If they can find a goalie wisperer to correct his flaws great. If not let him go.

[darksabre]

If they can find a goalie wisperer to correct his flaws great. If not let him go.

It's too late for that. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Does Lehner keep us in nearly every game he plays? I think he does. He is definitelyan NHL starter, but O still don’t think he is giving us anything that Ullmark won’t give us for less money.

[GoPuckYourself]

He is the Tyrod Taylor of the Buffalo Sabres, he will have some games where he makes you think he can be a franchise guy but you know by watching him he'll never be more than average and that is the very same with Lehner, he is an average goalie in the league, not remotely consistent enough to be a Stanley Cup winning goalie unless we have elite defensemen surrounding him which we obviously don't imo.

[woods-racer]

Would I give Lehner up for a first rounder right now?

 

Of course.

 

Would I give up Lehner and make a team take an aging vet, say Molson(?), for a first rounder?

 

That is what we gave up for him, doubt there is another team that dumb or has family that wants to do Botterill a huge favor.

[spndnchz]

Would I give Lehner up for a first rounder right now?

 

Of course.

 

Would I give up Lehner and make a team take an aging vet, say Molson(?), for a first rounder?

 

That is what we gave up for him, doubt there is another team that dumb or has family that wants to do Botterill a huge favor.

No

[erickompositör72]

He does some things at a very high level. And sometimes he doesn't get exposed, and keeps us in games.

 

However, he has some glaring weaknesses, and when he's exposed, he looks amateurish. And the best players know how to expose him.

 

We need someone better, and we could have had one (Neuvirth).

[darksabre]

Bill Hoppe had an article the other day about how Lehner is playing his best hockey and his teammates are saying he's really preparing well and he's focused. I think there's something to that for Lehner. He strikes me as a guy who struggles to get into a consistent routine and the level of elite focus that comes with it. He's been hurt a lot and playing on a bad team probably hasn't helped.

[Drunkard]

I think Lehner is good and I think he's good enough for a playoff team assuming the rest of the roster improves around him to be playoff caliber (one day it'll happen).

 

That being said, I don't think good enough is worth a long term contract for big money, so if they'd rather trade him so they could use that cap space elsewhere, I'm ok with it.

 

In a hypothetical choice between trading him for a 2nd round pick at the deadline or signing him to a 5 year $25 million contract I would trade him for a second round pick, bring up Ullmark, and re-sign Johnson or some similar veteran for backup money ($2-3 million for 1 or 2 years) to back him up.

 

If he isn't traded though, I'd re-sign Lehner to a short one or two year deal, let Johnson walk, and let him battle it out with Ullmark to see who starts next season.