TrueBlueGED Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 Why isn't CM on the Olympic roster? Borgen made it, Dahlin is in, some other young players too. USA hockey doesn't exactly have a terrific history of selecting the best Olympic team possible. Leaving Phil Kessel home 4 years ago being the most recent example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 This is further evidence why BPA is a bunch of crap. Our organization needed a finisher or a D and TM gave us neither, or was Nylander. I actually think Jack has the potential to be a great finisher, but once Kane is gone, he'll be our only one. What about Mittelstadt you say. He was a BPA type pick that I'm happy about. I'll concede that point but only to a certain extent. I like to look at tiers and quality of player per tier. I had Mittelstadt in my 1B tier and there was such a gap between him and the next guy on the list. I also think of him as Jack light. Someone who can set up others, but someone who could also take on the scoring role is necessary. If you back up to the Nylander pick, when we drafted I had Nylander, Sergachev, Chychrun, Keller and Joulevi in the same tier. Joulevi and Keller were already gone. So it was a choice between another playmaker, which we didn't need or two D which we did. One reason Edmonton sucks, they draft the same kinds of players. That said hard working defensively sound guys like mittelstadt, even if he's past first he's an asset Tiers are important. Putting players in tiers helps any team pick correctly. See Zachary senyshyn v Mathew barzal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 Why isn't CM on the Olympic roster? Borgen made it, Dahlin is in, some other young players too. He played the WJC and I doubt Minn wants to lose him for another two weeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 How is Pu doing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 How is Pu doing?Should probably ask your doctor. He's doing fine, expect him in Rochester next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 Should probably ask your doctor. He's doing fine, expect him in Rochester next year. Yep, will he be another Bailey or Baptiste level or more? That will be the interesting thing to watch. We need a non first round pick to develop into a nice player at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 (edited) None of these guys are prospects. Beyond that, you list 12 of them in four years, by nine teams and half of those are top 10 picks. I guess we coulda shoulda taken Pastrnak over Reinhart, but not even the Bruins were doing that at the time. The only guy that realistically we missed was Boeser. I’d never call Sam Reinhart a shoot first guy, but he has scored only nine fewer NHL career goals than Elhers and Laine and has more goals than every other player on your list except Pastrnak. In fact, he is one of two Sabres on the list of top 10 goal-scoring draft picks since 2014 The guy with the second most goals over those four years is a kid named Eichel. Who cares if they are prospects or not? Is you argument that shoot first players are few and far between? It’s a common style of play, and one that the Sabres are lacking. Both on roster and in the prospect pool. You mentioned the Leafs. Only their best player is a goal-scorer first, so they’ve got a pretty good base to build on without even looking at their prospects. Leaving a player on the board who even you admit is better than the one you just took is bordering on malpractice. At the very least make a trade and get something back for passing on the best guy left on the board. Or draft him then make a trade. The elephant in the room is that none of these guys know, or can pretend to know, exactly how to slot all these kids on a draft list with any kind of certainty. It’s largely a crapshoot. That’s why, when two players are similar in talent, position factors in. As a tie-breaker of sorts. Edited February 3, 2018 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 One reason Edmonton sucks, they draft the same kinds of players. That said hard working defensively sound guys like mittelstadt, even if he's past first he's an asset Tiers are important. Putting players in tiers helps any team pick correctly. See Zachary senyshyn v Mathew barzal People act like there is some huge difference between player 124 and 125 on a draft board and therefore you always take player 124 over 125 if both are available, because that is what BPA dictates. That is complete horse sh.... There is virtually no difference in the quality of those two prospects and therefore it's a great deal smarter to differentiate by looking at organizational need, sign ability, age, etc... If you only draft based solely on scouting, then you end up like Edm and now Buffalo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 People act like there is some huge difference between player 124 and 125 on a draft board and therefore you always take player 124 over 125 if both are available, because that is what BPA dictates. That is complete horse sh.... There is virtually no difference in the quality of those two prospects and therefore it's a great deal smarter to differentiate by looking at organizational need, sign ability, age, etc... If you only draft based solely on scouting, then you end up like Edm and now Buffalo. Jinx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted February 3, 2018 Report Share Posted February 3, 2018 You know the season isn't going well when this is what we're squabbling about in February. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted February 4, 2018 Report Share Posted February 4, 2018 You know the season isn't going well when this is what we're squabbling about in February. :( Isn't that the truth. Furthermore, what's kind of getting lost in all of this...allow me to glance at the roster for a moment....is that we need forwards too. People act like there is some huge difference between player 124 and 125 on a draft board and therefore you always take player 124 over 125 if both are available, because that is what BPA dictates. That is complete horse sh.... There is virtually no difference in the quality of those two prospects and therefore it's a great deal smarter to differentiate by looking at organizational need, sign ability, age, etc... If you only draft based solely on scouting, then you end up like Edm and now Buffalo. Edmonton's, and our, problem, is not that we drafted based on scouting...it's that the scouting was wrong. The players haven't been good (or in some cases, good enough relative to the alternatives). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted February 4, 2018 Report Share Posted February 4, 2018 (edited) Isn't that the truth. Furthermore, what's kind of getting lost in all of this...allow me to glance at the roster for a moment....is that we need forwards too. Edmonton's, and our, problem, is not that we drafted based on scouting...it's that the scouting was wrong. The players haven't been good (or in some cases, good enough relative to the alternatives). That’s exactly it. The rankings themselves inherently involve a lot of guess work - the scouting/projections often turn out to be quite widely varying in terms of accuracy. It can often be splitting hairs between similarly ranked players, and in reality anyone’s guess as to who turns out better, so in closely ranked cases like that I can see position factoring into a decision. But re: the Sabres specifically, you are correct about needing forwards too anyways, and the issue being that the scouting itself has been flawed. As said, no one would be upset with the pick if Nylander was looking more like his brother. Edited February 4, 2018 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted February 4, 2018 Report Share Posted February 4, 2018 (edited) That’s exactly it. The rankings themselves inherently involve a lot of guess work - the scouting/projections often turn out to be quite widely varying in terms of accuracy. It can often be splitting hairs between similarly ranked players, and in reality anyone’s guess as to who turns out better, so in closely ranked cases like that I can see position factoring into a decision. But re: the Sabres specifically, you are correct about needing forwards too anyways, and the issue being that the scouting itself has been flawed. As said, no one would be upset with the pick if Nylander was looking more like his brother. Thorny, I'm going to have to somewhat disagree. We'd all be thrilled if Nylander developed like his brother, but that wouldn't change my opinion that is was a stupid pick. The forward issues really belong primarily to our good friend TM, but also to the organization as a hole. Despite drafting tons of forwards, we developed not a single quality NHL player. I'm excluding Jack and Sam, because they were 2nd overall picks that never spent time in the minors. Do you realize that the only Sabres' draftee since 2012 besides the Jack and Sam is Girgensons. That's it. (we also only have 2 draftees on D or in G.) That is an amazing record of draft futility from a team that allegedly was rebuilding through the draft. Until this team is over 50% Sabres draftees, I doubt this rebuild will ever succeed. Edited February 4, 2018 by GASabresIUFAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted February 4, 2018 Report Share Posted February 4, 2018 https://twitter.com/SabresProspects/status/960156964348223488?s=17 Puuuuuuuu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erickompositör72 Posted February 5, 2018 Report Share Posted February 5, 2018 I was reading ppl mentioning Nylander in another thread, but thought I should post this here: I think Nylander on Jack or Casey's wing could be a stud. I only saw one goal of his in the WJC's, but this kid has some shot. That cannot be said for many players on our team. If it's just Jack or Casey feeding him, I could see him finding the back of the net a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted February 5, 2018 Report Share Posted February 5, 2018 I think with Nylander if you want to compare him to his brother, he should have been ligthing up the AHL and having a brief NHL stint this season. The injury might have derailed that and the kid lost a season, no reason to give up on him yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dominator Posted February 5, 2018 Report Share Posted February 5, 2018 I think with Nylander if you want to compare him to his brother, he should have been ligthing up the AHL and having a brief NHL stint this season. The injury might have derailed that and the kid lost a season, no reason to give up on him yet. Would it be fair to say that next season will be do or die in regards to his long-term outlook? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MODO Hockey Posted February 5, 2018 Report Share Posted February 5, 2018 (edited) I can see the frustration in his eyes, he knows that litterly everyone had and still has big hopes for him to become what his bigbrother has become and more to that, together with injuries and a bad self esteem id say unless he gets the right mentor in near future his career might go down the drain. The kid has enormous presure on him, his father was a big name in NHL, and now his big brother is a important key in NHL, easier said than done to live up to this unless u have the right mentor which i dont believe he has. Edited February 5, 2018 by MODO Hockey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted February 5, 2018 Report Share Posted February 5, 2018 I can see the frustration in his eyes, he knows that litterly everyone had and still has big hopes for him to become what his bigbrother has become and more to that, together with injuries and a bad self esteem id say unless he gets the right mentor in near future his career might go down the drain. The kid has enormous presure on him, his father was a big name in NHL, and now his big brother is a important key in NHL, easier said than done to live up to this unless u have the right mentor which i dont believe he has. Hey MODO, Good points here. Maybe he would benefit from Moulson being around ... :ph34r: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted February 5, 2018 Report Share Posted February 5, 2018 Not sure if it was MODO or someone else who brought up his name originally, but is Markus Naslund available? The similarities in general game and early career are striking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted February 5, 2018 Report Share Posted February 5, 2018 I can see the frustration in his eyes, he knows that litterly everyone had and still has big hopes for him to become what his bigbrother has become and more to that, together with injuries and a bad self esteem id say unless he gets the right mentor in near future his career might go down the drain. The kid has enormous presure on him, his father was a big name in NHL, and now his big brother is a important key in NHL, easier said than done to live up to this unless u have the right mentor which i dont believe he has. Whaaat? Cal O'Reilly WASN'T a good mentor? Surely, you can't be serious. :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted February 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2018 https://twitter.com/SabresProspects/status/960156964348223488?s=17 Puuuuuuuu. That's some mad eye-hand coordination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted February 5, 2018 Report Share Posted February 5, 2018 Aho, Connor, Puljujarvi are most definitely not shooters There was a running joke about how long it took Aho to get a goal this year You realize that Aho has 18 g this season and had 24 last year and his ratio of goals to assists for his career is nearly 1 to 1. That my friend is the definition of a goal scorer and not a playmaker. Oh yeah, Aho converts on about 13% of his shots. The Sabres convert at about 8%. Have you watched Sebastian Aho play? He's NOTHING like Boeser or any other pure goal scorer. The dude prefers to pass OUT of high danger areas. Just because he's on one of the most offensively anemic teams in the league and therefore doesn't have high assist totals, doesn't mean the mid-20s goals he's going to finish with are indicative of him being a sniper. On a better team, he becomes a 20-27G scorer with 40+ assists. It took 16 games for him to get a goal this year, and since that stretch he's had goal-less stretches of 5 and 8 games. He's on pace for like 25 non-empty-net goals. A great number for a young guy, and 2 more than rookie Sam Reinhart and his muffin shot. He's capable shooting the puck, but he is not the player you describe. This may or may not be relevant to the above disagreement, but there are, interestingly enough, 2 guys in the NHL named Sebastian Aho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted February 5, 2018 Report Share Posted February 5, 2018 This may or may not be relevant to the above disagreement, but there are, interestingly enough, 2 guys in the NHL named Sebastian Aho. That's actually pretty cool. And it's not a common name like Gord Smith or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted February 5, 2018 Report Share Posted February 5, 2018 This may or may not be relevant to the above disagreement, but there are, interestingly enough, 2 guys in the NHL named Sebastian Aho. That's just weird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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