Missing poster formation; the lost please check in

[LabattBlue]

I left roughly a year and a half ago.  Only signed in for the purpose of keeping up with thread related to SabreSpace Gold Fantasy Hockey League.  

 

 

I will chime in and say this, I do lurk from time to time, and nothing has really changed that would make me start participating in hockey talk again.  Maybe someday.

[Weave]

I feel like the bolded is becoming an urban legend. Can you tell us which posters? I was concerned that Neo left because of a rhetorical slight from me that unfortunately involved Godwin's Law. I hope I am not telling tales out of school, but he assured me that my comment was not the reason he stopped posting and he actually said he hasn't left, he's just taking some time off. I reached out to Weave as well, even though I was less concerned that a comment about Weave challenging SwampD to a duel could possibly have resulted in that much insult. His reply suggests he will be posting again soon.

 

I honestly can't fathom why someone would leave a hockey board because they ventured into a "no holds barred" politics thread and got offended. I am calling BS, I guess. By the way, it was a very good, very smart, very tough thread, but about 99% tamer than anything else you'd find on the Internet.

 

I took a walk in good part because of all of the acrimony. Not my preferred form of entertainment.  And the last thing I want to do is drop another bomb of acrimony.  But I'll say this, don't think that the things you (not just you, but I'm responding to you and you are included) post don't have an effect that result in people thinking that they don't want to spend so much time here.  No, your stab at humor wasn't why I left, but my reaction to really poorly timed and poorly thought out humor was a sign that I'd had enough. Noone seems to know when they have gone too far.  A look around the threads here is all the evidence you need.

 

This place has changed.  I don't think they way it is moderated has changed.  But the team we are posting about has.  And the mix of posters certainly has.  I suppose I could spend a bunch of energy complaining that it needs to be what it used to be.  But that wouldn't be productive, so I do the one thing I can do.  Spend less time here. 

[GoPre]

Anyone remember BMWOLF? Believe that is what he went by. He was another member I enjoyed reading what he had to say. He hasn't posted in a very long time. He's a member of a different time though. Not sure why he left. The number of current members seems to be dropping. Not cool. 

Edited December 22, 2016 by GoPre

[nfreeman]

Another one I forgot. Mr. Homemade Stanley Cup. Sorry!

I agree with this. chz mentioned a violation of TOS. I have yet to see the TOS. Is there a link? Is it something you agree to when you sign up but isn't available to review afterwards? Does the TOS say not to discuss politics? How could we blame a new poster or infrequent poster for starting a politics thread right now? Maybe he or she hasn't been following the controversy. Yet that poster would probably be suspended, I'm guessing.

 

 

 

This is exactly what I mean when I say that you like to indulge in trolling from time to time.  You are well aware that this is complete BS, and fairly obnoxious, and yet you throw it out there anyway, just for a little internet frisson. 

 

 

I feel like the bolded is becoming an urban legend. Can you tell us which posters? I was concerned that Neo left because of a rhetorical slight from me that unfortunately involved Godwin's Law. I hope I am not telling tales out of school, but he assured me that my comment was not the reason he stopped posting and he actually said he hasn't left, he's just taking some time off. I reached out to Weave as well, even though I was less concerned that a comment about Weave challenging SwampD to a duel could possibly have resulted in that much insult. His reply suggests he will be posting again soon.

 

I honestly can't fathom why someone would leave a hockey board because they ventured into a "no holds barred" politics thread and got offended. I am calling BS, I guess. By the way, it was a very good, very smart, very tough thread, but about 99% tamer than anything else you'd find on the Internet.

 

Well, Weave beat me to it. 

 

Didn't you have a couple of posters in mind that you thought left because of the politics thread?  Or were they Neo (whom I had in mind) and Weave?

 

In any case, I think Hoss left because of it as well, and that it played a part in Shrader's departure.  Also, Chz may have quit the board today.

 

Do you need more than that, plus the many other posts remarking on the increase in board acrimony and general bad vibes? 

 

Why is it such a big freaking deal anyway?  How long would it take you to set up a reddit thread for SabreSpace political talk and invite D4rk, Qwk, PastaJoe and whoever else is pining away for it?

[North Buffalo]

One item to keep in mind amongst all the hand-wringing regarding this issue is that there are both a customer service section of the board (which is publicly accessible) & also a Q&A section of the board (which is also publicly accessible). To date, there is not 1 single thread in either location asking for an explanation / clarification of this matter.

Seems to me, that if someone felt strongly about this issue (& it appears several here do) that a PM to a mod &/or fearless leader or a post in one of those 2 locations would've been a good place to request / start to get a better understanding.

Just my 2 cents.

I have had on ongoing pming conversation with nfreeman over this exact issue. Have to agree with Dark... if the explanation ahead of time was more transparent and a little more info on the decision msking process instead of pulling teeth from the other mods the agnst would not have been as bad. That being said this election has been unusually contentious and a few warnings over locking the discussion might have served everyone well. SDS, I understand better than some your time constraints, however a designee allowed to answer questions and elicit more of the members thoughts on the issue of the discussion and proper parameters would have gone a long way imo. The discussion got stupid at the end because of the elections intensity but once discussions return to issue oriented and process oriented info i think the angst will settle down. It does depend on how polarizing this admin intends to be... which will require ettic rules on this board to be enforced.., deleting inappropriate posts if need be. Again current events, process questions and policy choices are useful to members of this board imo. Name calling is not.

[El Zahir]

I agree with this. chz mentioned a violation of TOS. I have yet to see the TOS. Is there a link? Is it something you agree to when you sign up but isn't available to review afterwards? Does the TOS say not to discuss politics? How could we blame a new poster or infrequent poster for starting a politics thread right now? Maybe he or she hasn't been following the controversy. Yet that poster would probably be suspended, I'm guessing.

 

I tried to find it and couldn't. It appears the TOS should be on this page: http://forums.sabrespace.com/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=boardrules    if it's set up the same way as 2BD, but the page is blank.

Edited December 22, 2016 by El Zahir

[Taro T]

This is exactly what I mean when I say that you like to indulge in trolling from time to time.  You are well aware that this is complete BS, and fairly obnoxious, and yet you throw it out there anyway, just for a little internet frisson. 

 

 

 

 

Well, Weave beat me to it. 

 

Didn't you have a couple of posters in mind that you thought left because of the politics thread?  Or were they Neo (whom I had in mind) and Weave?

 

In any case, I think Hoss left because of it as well, and that it played a part in Shrader's departure.  Also, Chz may have quit the board today.

 

Do you need more than that, plus the many other posts remarking on the increase in board acrimony and general bad vibes? 

 

Why is it such a big freaking deal anyway?  How long would it take you to set up a reddit thread for SabreSpace political talk and invite D4rk, Qwk, PastaJoe and whoever else is pining away for it?

For what it's worth, Shrader left because of the incessant bickering here & he closed the Random thread because of all the political items moving there. He does feel bad about his role in this board imploding, but he really shouldn't because it wasn't his fault that a thread he'd not participated in for at least 2 months got hijacked.

 

Shrader, I hope I conveyed your message truly enough that I got the jist of it. (If I didn't, that's on me, not you. Apologies.)

[GoPre]

What the heck is going on? The Aud Club is now the "The Odd Club?"  :blink:

[SwampD]

What the heck is going on? The Aud Club is now the "The Odd Club?"  :blink:

We survived the Tank but we couldn't survive Trump.

 

 

 

Actually, I think Trump is just that PTSD event that is letting all the emotion of the Tank out. Kinda like when you get into a really bad car accident and you think you are just fine handling it, then two weeks later you break down crying because you ran out of toilet paper sitting on the can.

[PASabreFan]

This is exactly what I mean when I say that you like to indulge in trolling from time to time.  You are well aware that this is complete BS, and fairly obnoxious, and yet you throw it out there anyway, just for a little internet frisson.

No idea what frisson is. What Derek Roy used to put in his hair? Here's the problem: you just called me a troll for about the 1,000th time, and again it's unjustified. I couched my language in "probably" and "I'm guessing" and I still get the back of your hand. It's a personal attack, which is against board rules, but I'm guessing you won't suspend yourself or PM yourself a warning. Was the politics thread nasty at times? Yes. Did you contribute to that nastiness by painting Muslims with a very broad brush, knowing that one of our best-liked and -respected posters is Muslim? Yes. My point remains about the poor lack of communication between the board honchos and the rest of us.

 

 

Didn't you have a couple of posters in mind that you thought left because of the politics thread?  Or were they Neo (whom I had in mind) and Weave?

 

In any case, I think Hoss left because of it as well, and that it played a part in Shrader's departure.  Also, Chz may have quit the board today.

 

Do you need more than that, plus the many other posts remarking on the increase in board acrimony and general bad vibes?

Didn't you read my post? Yes, Neo and Weave. The common thread between Neo, Weave and Hoss is that they didn't leave because of the politics thread, they left because of what the thread brought out in them. A big difference. They "left" for their mental health. Which is fine and healthy, IMHO. The question becomes whether the politics thread has to go because it was too much for three posters. Or four. Or if the politics thread stays, does it have to be so gentle and politically correct that no one is ever offended?

 

But it goes deeper than that. In SDS' epic rant/interview with Gibby post, he said that it's the negativity about the team, from posters like me, that really drives people away. People have told him that. So I think his concept of the board is one of positive fans cheering on the boys, through good and bad seasons. A lot of the tensions with SDS here, IMHO, is that the board falls well short of that.

 

I would suggest Scott take a few minutes over the holidays to consider why he started the board(s) in the first place, what he wanted them to be and come back after the first of the year with a clear mission statement for the board and a set of rules. Then enforce them. If he doesn't want criticism of the team, so be it.

 

 

Why is it such a big freaking deal anyway?  How long would it take you to set up a reddit thread for SabreSpace political talk and invite D4rk, Qwk, PastaJoe and whoever else is pining away for it?

Now you're pinning me as leader of the opposition or something? Why should I set up an alternative thread? I think there should be a politics thread, but I'm hardly agitating for it.

[nfreeman]

No idea what frisson is. What Derek Roy used to put in his hair? Here's the problem: you just called me a troll for about the 1,000th time, and again it's unjustified. I couched my language in "probably" and "I'm guessing" and I still get the back of your hand. It's a personal attack, which is against board rules, but I'm guessing you won't suspend yourself or PM yourself a warning. Was the politics thread nasty at times? Yes. Did you contribute to that nastiness by painting Muslims with a very broad brush, knowing that one of our best-liked and -respected posters is Muslim? Yes. My point remains about the poor lack of communication between the board honchos and the rest of us.

 

 

Didn't you read my post? Yes, Neo and Weave. The common thread between Neo, Weave and Hoss is that they didn't leave because of the politics thread, they left because of what the thread brought out in them. A big difference. They "left" for their mental health. Which is fine and healthy, IMHO. The question becomes whether the politics thread has to go because it was too much for three posters. Or four. Or if the politics thread stays, does it have to be so gentle and politically correct that no one is ever offended?

 

But it goes deeper than that. In SDS' epic rant/interview with Gibby post, he said that it's the negativity about the team, from posters like me, that really drives people away. People have told him that. So I think his concept of the board is one of positive fans cheering on the boys, through good and bad seasons. A lot of the tensions with SDS here, IMHO, is that the board falls well short of that.

 

I would suggest Scott take a few minutes over the holidays to consider why he started the board(s) in the first place, what he wanted them to be and come back after the first of the year with a clear mission statement for the board and a set of rules. Then enforce them. If he doesn't want criticism of the team, so be it.

 

 

Now you're pinning me as leader of the opposition or something? Why should I set up an alternative thread? I think there should be a politics thread, but I'm hardly agitating for it.

 

Couching your language?  Are you kidding?  You predicted that someone would get suspended for something that no one has ever gotten suspended for. 

 

Don't engage in trolling if you don't want to get called on it.

 

As for the posters who have left -- those were the long-time posters that immediately came to mind.  The total is of course much greater than 3 or 4, and saying so is just throwing up a straw man.  There have been many others who have remarked about the negative tone created by the politics thread.  People come to a message board because they enjoy the conversation.  When the place is suffused in bad vibes due to hysterical political discussion, then the place isn't enjoyable and they stop coming.

 

If you aren't agitating for a political thread, why do you keep dropping in clever little digs like "our new president is a POS" in multiple threads?

 

SDS isn't the one who needs to engage in self-introspection here.

[PASabreFan]

We survived the Tank but we couldn't survive Trump.

 

 

 

Actually, I think Trump is just that PTSD event that is letting all the emotion of the Tank out. Kinda like when you get into a really bad car accident and you think you are just fine handling it, then two weeks later you break down crying because you ran out of toilet paper sitting on the can.

This might be pretty close to the truth. A lot of people sold their soul to the devil and now in the second post-tank season, the team is still bottom tier. The bill is coming due.

Couching your language?  Are you kidding?  You predicted that someone would get suspended for something that no one has ever gotten suspended for. 

 

Don't engage in trolling if you don't want to get called on it.

 

As for the posters who have left -- those were the long-time posters that immediately came to mind.  The total is of course much greater than 3 or 4, and saying so is just throwing up a straw man.  There have been many others who have remarked about the negative tone created by the politics thread.  People come to a message board because they enjoy the conversation.  When the place is suffused in bad vibes due to hysterical political discussion, then the place isn't enjoyable and they stop coming.

 

If you aren't agitating for a political thread, why do you keep dropping in clever little digs like "our new president is a POS" in multiple threads?

 

SDS isn't the one who needs to engage in self-introspection here.

Multiple threads huh?

 

Did you participate in the politics thread? Were you hysterical? Negative?

 

You know what Neo said? Don't be ridiculous, PA, you are not the reason I left. You're the reason I come here.

 

You and others should self-introspect on that.

 

#imthebreadandbuttababy

[darksabre]

Couching your language?  Are you kidding?  You predicted that someone would get suspended for something that no one has ever gotten suspended for. 

 

Don't engage in trolling if you don't want to get called on it.

 

As for the posters who have left -- those were the long-time posters that immediately came to mind.  The total is of course much greater than 3 or 4, and saying so is just throwing up a straw man.  There have been many others who have remarked about the negative tone created by the politics thread.  People come to a message board because they enjoy the conversation.  When the place is suffused in bad vibes due to hysterical political discussion, then the place isn't enjoyable and they stop coming.

 

If you aren't agitating for a political thread, why do you keep dropping in clever little digs like "our new president is a POS" in multiple threads?

 

SDS isn't the one who needs to engage in self-introspection here.

I think the Politics thread is being unfairly labeled as the boogeyman here. This place has been a black hole of negative vibes for 6 or 7 years now, especially on the hockey front. There's a reason OT threads (not just the Politics thread) have taken off. We never had OT threads in 2007. But there's very little fun, positive hockey talk to be had right now. If people want to blame the politics thread for the board's tone, that's their choice, but if the hockey talk was any good we wouldn't be having this discussion at all. The politics thread is easy to blame, but it's not the only catalyst for people leaving this forum. Plenty of historically good members were already out the door long before a politics thread was even conceived. What thread are we going to blame next? 

[chileanseabass]

I've been a member since 2005 and somehow managed to accrue over 1,200 posts but I'm not quite sure how.  I visit almost every day, but it's more a form of habit than anything.  I haven't been able to watch a  Sabres game the past two seasons, and info that would keep me "attached" to the team that I used to find here, is fleeting.  With 5 kids, ex-spouses, work, school, etc., I have enough drama in my life.  This used to be an escape from that, but now I just lurk on the fringes.  There seems to be so much more drama on this board now than years ago, and it's not just the politics thread or whatever, because conversations and animosity spill over from one thread to another, and it's hard to keep everything straight.  I followed along with the politics thread (what can I say, it was like a trainwreck and I couldn't look away), but am so sick of the divisiveness all around me in the "real world," that it kind of sucked the fun out of this place as well once it came to the forefront.  I'm not saying we each shouldn't have a voice or be able to complain, but I just get sick of hearing it non-stop, whether it's about politics or even the Sabres.  Yet, oddly enough my favorite thread is Complaint Thursday, since it allows me to connect with each of the posters on a more human level.  I don't know... guess I'm just starting to ramble.  I'll probably continue to lurk and check-in often, but won't post much outside of the soccer thread.
 

[nfreeman]

I think the Politics thread is being unfairly labeled as the boogeyman here. This place has been a black hole of negative vibes for 6 or 7 years now, especially on the hockey front. There's a reason OT threads (not just the Politics thread) have taken off. We never had OT threads in 2007. But there's very little fun, positive hockey talk to be had right now. If people want to blame the politics thread for the board's tone, that's their choice, but if the hockey talk was any good we wouldn't be having this discussion at all. The politics thread is easy to blame, but it's not the only catalyst for people leaving this forum. Plenty of historically good members were already out the door long before a politics thread was even conceived. What thread are we going to blame next? 

 

Well, I completely agree that years of bad hockey have contributed to the negative tone.  But I don't think the other OT threads have been problematic -- no one is getting PO'd about music, TV, science, etc. conversations.  (A big exception was the Kane/sexual assault thread discussion -- this could be included in the "politics" category, or excluded depending on one's perspective.)  The politics thread was unique in that regard IMHO.

 

I do think that the combination of improved hockey plus the absence of the politics threads (and absence of threads arguing about the politics thread) will result in a better vibe, and would love to put that theory to the test.

[WildCard]

Think Chillean nailed it. We've become bitchy and irritable.

 

We need to stop getting offended, have some chocolate, everyone go get laid, and come back

[PASabreFan]

The last two threads are a summary of the election we just had. "Make SabreSpace Great Again" vs. when was it great, exactly?

 

d4rk and CSB lol

Think Chillean nailed it. We've become bitchy and irritable.

We need to stop getting offended, have some chocolate, everyone go get laid, and come back

Meet me in the candy aisle at CVS.

I do think that the combination of improved hockey plus the absence of the politics threads (and absence of threads arguing about the politics thread) will result in a better vibe, and would love to put that theory to the test.

Great! Can you play goal in the shootout?

Edited December 22, 2016 by PASabreFan

[WildCard]

Oh PA, make me your ginger bread house

[Wyldnwoody44]

Well, in the 5+ years (idk when I signed up) This is the first time I can say that I've seen such a change in the overall feel of the board.

 

I have sat from afar and watched a couple of posters engage in battle, hell it was almost entertainment at that point, but that was between 2 specific posters, I stayed away from the politics thread and engaged in it for only a short while and then was able to find my way back out, like a big boy.

 

The Sabres kinda suck, have for a while, and that is spilling over into everything else, we start getting good hockey and we start getting posters back.

 

I hope that the many that have expressed their displeasure decide to stay, I consider myself somewhere between a lurker and a poster, but check this board daily, and drop my 2 cents when I feel like it.... Or when I'm drunk :)

 

It's just a message board guys, take a shot, hug it out, and come back and lets all gang up on PA....

 

P.S. animal house is on Netflix now, so I will watch it soon, so I can fit in again ;)

[darksabre]

Well, I completely agree that years of bad hockey have contributed to the negative tone.  But I don't think the other OT threads have been problematic -- no one is getting PO'd about music, TV, science, etc. conversations.  (A big exception was the Kane/sexual assault thread discussion -- this could be included in the "politics" category, or excluded depending on one's perspective.)  The politics thread was unique in that regard IMHO.

 

I do think that the combination of improved hockey plus the absence of the politics threads (and absence of threads arguing about the politics thread) will result in a better vibe, and would love to put that theory to the test.

I think the Kane threads were far more vitriolic than anything else we've seen here. They made the politics thread look like Mister Rogers neighborhood. 

 

I'm not saying other OT threads are contributing to the tone problem, I'm just saying that eliminating the politics thread probably isn't going to solve it. The Politics thread was seeing less traffic when it was closed, and probably was going to for a while (aren't we all a little hungover from this election?). Closing it drew attention to it. I think it could have been left alone. 

 

What we're setting up for now is bad hockey talk and nothing to fill the space. I don't know if I'm too excited about that. 

 

[WildCard]

Animal House is overrated, but you still have to see it

[CallawaySabres]

I think part of the problem is due to Buffalo sports in general. My family is an original Bills season ticket holder and I have been a Sabres season ticket holder for 4 years. I can't imagine anyone is more die-hard than myself and these two teams have brought me to the edge. I have realized that they have wasted my time and energy over the last few years and I will not allow them top put me in a bad mood anymore. I have sold most of my tickets this year and find myself leaving Bills game earlier and earlier. If it was not for the friends we have at the tailgates, I would just watch them on tv. As far as the Sabres, I don't even turn it on unless they are up by 1 because I know how most games go.

 

Someday, I hope the arena wakes up from the terrible slumber it has been in for 7 years. As far as the non hockey stuff, I could not care less because you should not let people's opinions upset you. You control your own thoughts and if you let people rile you up, it's your fault and yours alone. YOU control your own happiness and that's why I have chosen to watch less and less of this team. They have zero identity and again, hopefully someday that will change too.

 

Lighten up people, it's hockey...and tis the season.

[PASabreFan]

Oh PA, make me your ginger bread house

You love the icing, right?

Well, in the 5+ years (idk when I signed up) This is the first time I can say that I've seen such a change in the overall feel of the board.

 

I have sat from afar and watched a couple of posters engage in battle, hell it was almost entertainment at that point, but that was between 2 specific posters, I stayed away from the politics thread and engaged in it for only a short while and then was able to find my way back out, like a big boy.

 

The Sabres kinda suck, have for a while, and that is spilling over into everything else, we start getting good hockey and we start getting posters back.

 

I hope that the many that have expressed their displeasure decide to stay, I consider myself somewhere between a lurker and a poster, but check this board daily, and drop my 2 cents when I feel like it.... Or when I'm drunk :)

 

It's just a message board guys, take a shot, hug it out, and come back and lets all gang up on PA....

 

P.S. animal house is on Netflix now, so I will watch it soon, so I can fit in again ;)

Candy aisle. CVS.

[nfreeman]

I think the Kane threads were far more vitriolic than anything else we've seen here. They made the politics thread look like Mister Rogers neighborhood. 

 

I'm not saying other OT threads are contributing to the tone problem, I'm just saying that eliminating the politics thread probably isn't going to solve it. The Politics thread was seeing less traffic when it was closed, and probably was going to for a while (aren't we all a little hungover from this election?). Closing it drew attention to it. I think it could have been left alone. 

 

What we're setting up for now is bad hockey talk and nothing to fill the space. I don't know if I'm too excited about that. 

 

 

But there are plenty of topics available to fill the space.  We're just trying to stay away from one of them in order to keep things reasonably friendly.

[bob_sauve28]

Oh PA, make me your ginger bread house

:lol: