Missing poster formation; the lost please check in

[darksabre]

Maybe if "the plan" and "the intent" were communicated to the board before everything was put on double-super-secret probationary lock-down then perhaps there wouldn't have been any issues? How hard would it have been for a mod to start a thread letting the board know what was going on? Do we need to establish an ambassador to the mod staff from the rest of the board proletariat? Do we all have to send the mod staff PMs on our own every time something relevant to the whole board comes up? 

Seems to me there was a simple solution here that was deliberately avoided for no good reason. 

 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Maybe if "the plan" and "the intent" were communicated to the board before everything was put on double-super-secret probationary lock-down then perhaps there wouldn't have been any issues? How hard would it have been for a mod to start a thread letting the board know what was going on? Do we need to establish an ambassador to the mod staff from the rest of the board proletariat? Do we all have to send the mod staff PMs on our own every time something relevant to the whole board comes up? 

 

Seems to me there was a simple solution here that was deliberately avoided for no good reason. 

 

 

 

If I recall correctly, which is suspect at best, this is what happened in that thread you started.  You know, the one where you were a jerk to the mods ...  :P

[Claude_Verret]

I have enjoyed that thread, for the most part, but do not miss it.  I am actually in support of it being closed.  I believe it has run it's course.

 

That said, I would support a 'current events' type thread, so long as we can control ourselves.

 

First I'll say it doesn't matter to me if the politics thread stays closed or is allowed to come back, but if it does come back the bolded will never happen. It will always be contentious, be it now, next month or a year from now.

 

Like you stated upthread SDS's previous explanation is good enough for me.  He regrets ever allowing it on the Bills board and now any political discourse over there is relegated to a dark corner sub forum where the same 10-15 actors go round and round every day, but by and large the discussion stays buried there. I had proposed doing the same thing here previously, but now I don't believe it would work.  This community is much smaller and creating a sub forum for politics would almost certainly have acrimony spilling over into threads on the main board.

[darksabre]

If I recall correctly, which is suspect at best, this is what happened in that thread you started.  You know, the one where you were a jerk to the mods ...  :P

That thread wouldn't even have happened.  :lol:

[spndnchz]

That thread wouldn't even have happened.  :lol:

Have at it. I'm done.

[Doohickie]

I'm glad I didn't make "The List"

 

Really?  It should make you sad.

[SwampD]

Here's a post from one of the loudest voices over at 2BD.

 

Posted 19 November 2014 - 08:32 PM

Mods: please move this to PPP, so I can abuse this dumbass properly.

 

And his title reads "Also sniping at the retards from from the balcony".

 

I hate to break this to you nfreeman, but it's not about the politics that that place is a sewer.

[WildCard]

Have at it. I'm done.

Shut it down if I misread this

[Taro T]

One item to keep in mind amongst all the hand-wringing regarding this issue is that there are both a customer service section of the board (which is publicly accessible) & also a Q&A section of the board (which is also publicly accessible). To date, there is not 1 single thread in either location asking for an explanation / clarification of this matter.

 

Seems to me, that if someone felt strongly about this issue (& it appears several here do) that a PM to a mod &/or fearless leader or a post in one of those 2 locations would've been a good place to request / start to get a better understanding.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Shut it down if I misread this

 

One of the mods archived the politics, d4rk's jerky and the random threads this morning.

 

By chz saying she is done I have to think it was her, but I know she did not act alone.

 

By archiving the threads they are off the main board and people will have to dig them up.

 

For the record ...

 

I do not support the starting of any of these types of threads right now.

[darksabre]

One item to keep in mind amongst all the hand-wringing regarding this issue is that there are both a customer service section of the board (which is publicly accessible) & also a Q&A section of the board (which is also publicly accessible). To date, there is not 1 single thread in either location asking for an explanation / clarification of this matter.

 

Seems to me, that if someone felt strongly about this issue (& it appears several here do) that a PM to a mod &/or fearless leader or a post in one of those 2 locations would've been a good place to request / start to get a better understanding.

 

Just my 2 cents.

The mod staff could also have used those threads to get out in front of the thing. But that didn't happen either. Both sides of this share some blame.

One of the mods archived the politics, d4rk's jerky and the random threads this morning.

 

By chz saying she is done I have to think it was her, but I know she did not act alone.

 

By archiving the threads they are off the main board and people will have to dig them up.

 

For the record ...

 

I do not support the starting of any of these types of threads right now.

I agree. That's why I asked wildcard to shut his down. We can't do this without coming to consensus as a board with how it should be handled. No holds barred is certainly out of the question now. It's friendly politics or nothing.

[dudacek]

One item to keep in mind amongst all the hand-wringing regarding this issue is that there are both a customer service section of the board (which is publicly accessible) & also a Q&A section of the board (which is also publicly accessible). To date, there is not 1 single thread in either location asking for an explanation / clarification of this matter.

Seems to me, that if someone felt strongly about this issue (& it appears several here do) that a PM to a mod &/or fearless leader or a post in one of those 2 locations would've been a good place to request / start to get a better understanding.

Just my 2 cents.

This was public course of action affecting the entire board, not a private or personal one.

It's counter-intuitive that public response should be handled privately.

[Taro T]

The mod staff could also have used those threads to get out in front of the thing. But that didn't happen either. Both sides of this share some blame.

 

I agree. That's why I asked wildcard to shut his down. We can't do this without coming to consensus as a board with how it should be handled. No holds barred is certainly out of the question now. It's friendly politics or nothing.

The admin for this board have presented info regarding their position several times on this matter. THEY are not the ones taking public umbrage at this matter.

 

It clearly appears that you still have questions regarding this matter. You have publically stated that you believe you should not have to send a PM to anyone to understand the reasoning behind & the planned rectification (for lack of a better word) of this matter better. Well, there is one other thing you might do to get your questions answered if you really want them answered.

 

 

It is unfortunate Shrader chose the timing he did to close the Random Thread. That appears to have been the action that escalated the emotions about this issue. Personally, I'd have preferred to not see the Politics Thread closed but I don't take issue w/ the mods' position at present. They take on the role voluntarily & recieve little, if any, thanks for it. Hopefully that is remembered when  interacting with them.

 

And, apologies up front as this next bit will probably be taken in the wrong tone (a serious issue w/ non-speaking non-ftf communication - inflection, tone, body language, & facial expression are all lost but are integral to understanding tone), but we are REALLY lucky that Fearless Leader set up & continues to run this place. I know what his "day job" is & we are really lucky that he devotes time & resources to this place. He could do a lot better for himself letting this place fall by the wayside. The mods, as well, probably often wonder why they do this. We don't always agree w/ them but we do owe them our thanks for voluntarily keeping this place we all waste too much time at running & for the most part running well.

 

Again, just my 2 cents.

 

:beer:

This was public course of action affecting the entire board, not a private or personal one.

It's counter-intuitive that public response should be handled privately.

And both the customer service section & Q&A sections are publicly available. Either might have been a place to ask a Q or 2.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Taro,

 

I completely agree that SDS has done us all a huge favour by starting and maintaining this site.

 

Also, the mods are fantastic and do not get thanked enough for doing what they do.

 

By enlarge the members police themselves and rarely do things get out of hand, but when they do our mods do a great job.

[darksabre]

The admin for this board have presented info regarding their position several times on this matter. THEY are not the ones taking public umbrage at this matter.

 

It clearly appears that you still have questions regarding this matter. You have publically stated that you believe you should not have to send a PM to anyone to understand the reasoning behind & the planned rectification (for lack of a better word) of this matter better. Well, there is one other thing you might do to get your questions answered if you really want them answered.

 

 

It is unfortunate Shrader chose the timing he did to close the Random Thread. That appears to have been the action that escalated the emotions about this issue. Personally, I'd have preferred to not see the Politics Thread closed but I don't take issue w/ the mods' position at present. They take on the role voluntarily & recieve little, if any, thanks for it. Hopefully that is remembered when  interacting with them.

 

And, apologies up front as this next bit will probably be taken in the wrong tone (a serious issue w/ non-speaking non-ftf communication - inflection, tone, body language, & facial expression are all lost but are integral to understanding tone), but we are REALLY lucky that Fearless Leader set up & continues to run this place. I know what his "day job" is & we are really lucky that he devotes time & resources to this place. He could do a lot better for himself letting this place fall by the wayside. The mods, as well, probably often wonder why they do this. We don't always agree w/ them but we do owe them our thanks for voluntarily keeping this place we all waste too much time at running & for the most part running well.

 

Again, just my 2 cents.

 

:beer:

 

And both the customer service section & Q&A sections are publicly available. Either might have been a place to ask a Q or 2.

To be fair, I have no questions, and haven't had any questions. I understand why things were done. I disagree with the how. Taking my complaints to PMs doesn't serve the rest of the board. It just serves me. I see no reason for that since I'm not one of the people injecting politics into various threads. I haven't started any new Politics threads. I'm fine with it staying closed for now. 

[That Aud Smell]

Taro,

 

I completely agree that SDS has done us all a huge favour by starting and maintaining this site.

 

Also, the mods are fantastic and do not get thanked enough for doing what they do.

 

By enlarge the members police themselves and rarely do things get out of hand, but when they do our mods do a great job.

 

Yo.

[sodbuster]

Yo.

:w00t:

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Yo.

 

Perhaps, I should re-phrase that?

 

:w00t:

 

:flirt:

[JJFIVEOH]

I made the decision to go away from this place until/unless it got back to the way it was. But I've been keeping up with this thread and since everybody is adding their opinion, I'll add mine. 

 

I came here because I'm a Sabres fan, as is everybody else on here. I STAYED because of the secondary discussions going on at the same time. Getting to know people, talking about what we have in common (and what we don't); discussing topics not necessarily related to sports. There is only so much to be said when it comes to hockey and sports in general, this forum wouldn't exist if we didn't talk about other things. 

 

I'm on several forums, and between those, Facebook, Twitter and every other social medium this place is probably the most civil of them all. It's why I come back on a daily basis even if I am in the minority when it comes to my political views. The rare occasions when I got into a heated discussion with somebody, more often than not I PM'ed that person and discussed privately to make sure everything was cool and that we understood where each other was coming from. In all but one instance, it made both of us (in each situation) better understand where each of us was coming from and actually helped us get along better in the long run. I understand some may not like a political thread, but nobody is forcing them to click on it. Just because some may not have the personal restraint doesn't mean it should be taken out on the rest of us. 

 

I understand SDS owns this forum and he can do whatever the hell he pleases. I understand the mods can do whatever it is that they please as long as it fits his vision of how a forum should be ran. But I'm sure his main goal is to have as many members as possible. It's very similar to owning a business. A business owner can do whatever they please. But what they think is best may not necessarily produce the desired outcome. Customers can just as easily say screw it and move on to another business. 

 

If a business is booming, what difference does it make to lose a couple of customers? But the fact is, business is not booming. This place is having a hard enough time attracting new members, and getting rid of politics isn't going to bring in any new members. In fact I highly doubt new members even check for it. So this place lost a couple of members because of the political thread? Look how many it's losing now. Not only is it not getting any new members but you're losing the long standing members who made this place what it is today. 

 

My Turkey thread got deleted, it was a current event. If it stayed on topic, there was little chance of any conflict. Yet there is a religious thread going on, a topic that has more potential to become heated than any thread about an ambassador shooting. The double standards around here are thick. Up to this point there is still no word from SDS or any of the mods as to what is going on and what the future holds; also no word as to what they deem acceptable so that we don't post something they'll end up deleting. So not only are we not allowed to partake in any discussion in which we are rational and civil 99.9% of the time, now we're not even informed on what we can and can't say any more. Pretty much just throw it against a wall and see if it sticks. 

 

You're not going to find a more reasonable and objective group like this group very easily. Yet for some reason the higher-ups still think we need to be treated like a bunch of children. It really says a lot about what SDS thinks of us. 

 

I spend a lot of time on a racing forum talking hockey with a bunch of friends. It's a very large forum and political talk is unmoderated. I'll just go spend more time over there. 

[bob_sauve28]

I made the decision to go away from this place until/unless it got back to the way it was. But I've been keeping up with this thread and since everybody is adding their opinion, I'll add mine. 

 

I came here because I'm a Sabres fan, as is everybody else on here. I STAYED because of the secondary discussions going on at the same time. Getting to know people, talking about what we have in common (and what we don't); discussing topics not necessarily related to sports. There is only so much to be said when it comes to hockey and sports in general, this forum wouldn't exist if we didn't talk about other things. 

 

I'm on several forums, and between those, Facebook, Twitter and every other social medium this place is probably the most civil of them all. It's why I come back on a daily basis even if I am in the minority when it comes to my political views. The rare occasions when I got into a heated discussion with somebody, more often than not I PM'ed that person and discussed privately to make sure everything was cool and that we understood where each other was coming from. In all but one instance, it made both of us (in each situation) better understand where each of us was coming from and actually helped us get along better in the long run. I understand some may not like a political thread, but nobody is forcing them to click on it. Just because some may not have the personal restraint doesn't mean it should be taken out on the rest of us. 

 

I understand SDS owns this forum and he can do whatever the hell he pleases. I understand the mods can do whatever it is that they please as long as it fits his vision of how a forum should be ran. But I'm sure his main goal is to have as many members as possible. It's very similar to owning a business. A business owner can do whatever they please. But what they think is best may not necessarily produce the desired outcome. Customers can just as easily say screw it and move on to another business. 

 

If a business is booming, what difference does it make to lose a couple of customers? But the fact is, business is not booming. This place is having a hard enough time attracting new members, and getting rid of politics isn't going to bring in any new members. In fact I highly doubt new members even check for it. So this place lost a couple of members because of the political thread? Look how many it's losing now. Not only is it not getting any new members but you're losing the long standing members who made this place what it is today. 

 

My Turkey thread got deleted, it was a current event. If it stayed on topic, there was little chance of any conflict. Yet there is a religious thread going on, a topic that has more potential to become heated than any thread about an ambassador shooting. The double standards around here are thick. Up to this point there is still no word from SDS or any of the mods as to what is going on and what the future holds; also no word as to what they deem acceptable so that we don't post something they'll end up deleting. So not only are we not allowed to partake in any discussion in which we are rational and civil 99.9% of the time, now we're not even informed on what we can and can't say any more. Pretty much just throw it against a wall and see if it sticks. 

 

You're not going to find a more reasonable and objective group like this group very easily. Yet for some reason the higher-ups still think we need to be treated like a bunch of children. It really says a lot about what SDS thinks of us. 

 

I spend a lot of time on a racing forum talking hockey with a bunch of friends. It's a very large forum and political talk is unmoderated. I'll just go spend more time over there. 

Well said bro  :thumbsup:

[Sabres Fan in NS]

And another 'All Star' poster announces his leaving.

 

JJ,

 

Please stay.

[Sabre Dance]

Howdy, y'all -

 

    Not listed as missing, but I have been absent for a while only due to being extremely busy at work (during the day) and too tired to look at a computer/tablet/smart phone (at night).  I did sense that some of the political talk was escalating - it did not make me stay away, but I can't say as I miss it too much.  I would prefer to talk hockey, but over the last year or so, hockey has become less of an interest for me as other aspects of my life have grown in importance.

    I do hope that A) the Sabres do improve more than they have - it would sure be nice to talk about all them goals being scored in the previous night's game and B) I hope the lost are found again - this forum has had some of the most interesting posts (and posters) I've had the honor of reading.  C'mon back - ye are missed.

[pi2000]

[PASabreFan]

I'm glad I didn't make "The List"

 

Another one I forgot. Mr. Homemade Stanley Cup. Sorry!

Maybe if "the plan" and "the intent" were communicated to the board before everything was put on double-super-secret probationary lock-down then perhaps there wouldn't have been any issues? How hard would it have been for a mod to start a thread letting the board know what was going on? Do we need to establish an ambassador to the mod staff from the rest of the board proletariat? Do we all have to send the mod staff PMs on our own every time something relevant to the whole board comes up? 

 

Seems to me there was a simple solution here that was deliberately avoided for no good reason. 

 

 

I agree with this. chz mentioned a violation of TOS. I have yet to see the TOS. Is there a link? Is it something you agree to when you sign up but isn't available to review afterwards? Does the TOS say not to discuss politics? How could we blame a new poster or infrequent poster for starting a politics thread right now? Maybe he or she hasn't been following the controversy. Yet that poster would probably be suspended, I'm guessing.

 

Taro,

 

I completely agree that SDS has done us all a huge favour by starting and maintaining this site.

 

Also, the mods are fantastic and do not get thanked enough for doing what they do.

 

By enlarge the members police themselves and rarely do things get out of hand, but when they do our mods do a great job.

The mods need to educate us more on what they do. How much time is involved, etc. It's easy to underestimate. I think they do their best work when they merge threads and keep things clean. If I had to guess, I would imagine that there's some work to keep REAL trolls and bots and such away. My point earlier is there doesn't need to be nearly as much scolding of posters. Suspension should be an extraordinary step (like when I cursed out SDS).

Edited December 21, 2016 by PASabreFan

[PASabreFan]

To reiterate, the point of this action was to improve the overall vibe around the board.  It was a contentious year, both in the real world and on this board.  There was a lot of hostility, name-calling, accusations of bad faith, stupidity, bigotry, etc.  Posters left the board as a direct result of the politics thread.

I feel like the bolded is becoming an urban legend. Can you tell us which posters? I was concerned that Neo left because of a rhetorical slight from me that unfortunately involved Godwin's Law. I hope I am not telling tales out of school, but he assured me that my comment was not the reason he stopped posting and he actually said he hasn't left, he's just taking some time off. I reached out to Weave as well, even though I was less concerned that a comment about Weave challenging SwampD to a duel could possibly have resulted in that much insult. His reply suggests he will be posting again soon.

 

I honestly can't fathom why someone would leave a hockey board because they ventured into a "no holds barred" politics thread and got offended. I am calling BS, I guess. By the way, it was a very good, very smart, very tough thread, but about 99% tamer than anything else you'd find on the Internet.