Missing poster formation; the lost please check in

[carpandean]

I know we've lost some regular posters, apparently permanently. A few others have been inexplicably quiet. It's funny. You get used to seeing these people talking hockey or whatever. When they stop, you wonder if it's illness (or worse!), family crisis or some other problem. We are family, if dysfunctional, so would the following kindly say hi?

 

DeLuca

 

carpandean

 

robviously

 

sizzlemeister

 

Might be missing a few.

 

I live.  Just busy.  Have read a lot more here than I have posted, of late.

 

It's nice to be missed, though.

[PASabreFan]

I'm neither lost nor have I been found...  

No offense, I forgot you.

[JujuFish]

It appears to be the case.

 

IMG_5918.PNG

 

I remember when you took donations for a short time.  That was fun.

[PASabreFan]

The thread about the Russian ambassador to Turkey being deleted really bothered me. I was under the impression that the ban on political talk was related to the visceral, emotional responses in the direct wake of the election. How are we supposed to pretend this isn't happening? This board has never been a hockey escapist getaway, it's a collection of people.

 

So in response to that thread being deleted, I started another politics thread, it got deleted, and then made a dummy thread called holiday cooking with the same message that's posted in here and around the NHL and one more thread. That was my emotional response to having no real understanding of the unprecedented gag rule.

 

I tried to straight up ask the owner of the board to clarify, and he didn't respond to me other than to post screenshot proof that he pays for this place.

 

I got banned for a day by chz. The reason given was that nobody wants to have my rant posted in every thread. That's true, that was a rash, emotional response of mine. But wouldn't deleting the posts and giving me a warning have been a more fair punishment? The duplicate posts are still there, so teaching me a lesson was obviously more important than the spam cluttering threads.

 

I've never been banned before. I've been an every day member of this board for 5 years. It's a reflex for me to check sabrespace every time I pick up my phone. I've come to deeply care about many people I haven't met in person.

 

I take being banned very personally. I've been very weary about being on here ever since the last time PA got banned.

 

Good moderation is like good hockey reffing. It shouldn't become the focus of the attention. I don't accept that the mods want us to PM them to talk about this. It's a public forum. I don't have a familiar personal relationship with any of the mods, as I do with many of the posters that I do PM.

 

So, yeah. I was really dreading having to get this down in writing all day. I'm taking a break for a while. I'll hang around for a day or so to PM people and get email addresses and stuff.

 

Hope everyone has a merry christmas and happy new year! Go Sabres!

This board doesn't need 95% of the interference that the mods and owner interject. It's a very mature board with good posters who can police a lot of things themselves. You shouldn't have been suspended. I shouldn't have been the second time. There should be a politics thread. But you give someone a badge or a whistle and you know what happens.

 

As for Scott, I'm sure he's a good guy whose family loves him, and he does a wonderful service to Buffalo sports fans. He may not even realize this, but almost every single interaction he has on this board is antagonistic. Some appreciation for what we all do for him and his sites would be pretty refreshing. The invoice? It not only didn't answer the question, it was a pretty weak move. Everyone knows he pays for these sites.

 

I'll end ironically enough with a political statement. Cut regulation and get the government off the backs of the people and watch this board flourish! Right now, honestly, it's a Mike Robitaille hounds breakfast.

 

And qwk, you're not going anywhere. You march off into that trade thread right this very instant, mister!

[WildCard]

Man, this place is burning to the ground right now

Edited December 21, 2016 by WildCard

[Samson's Flow]

The thread about the Russian ambassador to Turkey being deleted really bothered me. I was under the impression that the ban on political talk was related to the visceral, emotional responses in the direct wake of the election. How are we supposed to pretend this isn't happening? This board has never been a hockey escapist getaway, it's a collection of people.

 

So in response to that thread being deleted, I started another politics thread, it got deleted, and then made a dummy thread called holiday cooking with the same message that's posted in here and around the NHL and one more thread. That was my emotional response to having no real understanding of the unprecedented gag rule.

 

I tried to straight up ask the owner of the board to clarify, and he didn't respond to me other than to post screenshot proof that he pays for this place.

 

I got banned for a day by chz. The reason given was that nobody wants to have my rant posted in every thread. That's true, that was a rash, emotional response of mine. But wouldn't deleting the posts and giving me a warning have been a more fair punishment? The duplicate posts are still there, so teaching me a lesson was obviously more important than the spam cluttering threads.

 

I've never been banned before. I've been an every day member of this board for 5 years. It's a reflex for me to check sabrespace every time I pick up my phone. I've come to deeply care about many people I haven't met in person.

 

I take being banned very personally. I've been very weary about being on here ever since the last time PA got banned.

 

Good moderation is like good hockey reffing. It shouldn't become the focus of the attention. I don't accept that the mods want us to PM them to talk about this. It's a public forum. I don't have a familiar personal relationship with any of the mods, as I do with many of the posters that I do PM.

 

So, yeah. I was really dreading having to get this down in writing all day. I'm taking a break for a while. I'll hang around for a day or so to PM people and get email addresses and stuff.

 

Hope everyone has a merry christmas and happy new year! Go Sabres!

Please stick with us qwk. Hope you have a good holiday as well.

 

(still didn't like the Witch though :nana:)

This board doesn't need 95% of the interference that the mods and owner interject. It's a very mature board with good posters who can police a lot of things themselves. You shouldn't have been suspended. I shouldn't have been the second time. There should be a politics thread. But you give someone a badge or a whistle and you know what happens.

 

As for Scott, I'm sure he's a good guy whose family loves him, and he does a wonderful service to Buffalo sports fans. He may not even realize this, but almost every single interaction he has on this board is antagonistic. Some appreciation for what we all do for him and his sites would be pretty refreshing. The invoice? It not only didn't answer the question, it was a pretty weak move. Everyone knows he pays for these sites.

 

I'll end ironically enough with a political statement. Cut regulation and get the government off the backs of the people and watch this board flourish! Right now, honestly, it's a Mike Robitaille hounds breakfast.

 

And qwk, you're not going anywhere. You march off into that trade thread right this very instant, mister!

You're not wrong PA, but unfortunately we are reliant on the mods to allow us that right.

[#freejame]

Speaking as someone who's mostly lurked around the past ten years, coming on and seeing no hockey talk on the home page slowly pushed me off the site. Now when I'm on it isn't for long because every thread because polluted with other . Just my opinion, but the board just isn't as fun anymore, and gets less fun when checking in regularly and seeing nothing but senseless arguing in every thread. If people want to talk about things that aren't hockey, add a sub-forum, make all the threads in there, and keep them off the home page. 

[SwampD]

Speaking as someone who's mostly lurked around the past ten years, coming on and seeing no hockey talk on the home page slowly pushed me off the site. Now when I'm on it isn't for long because every thread because polluted with other ######. Just my opinion, but the board just isn't as fun anymore, and gets less fun when checking in regularly and seeing nothing but senseless arguing in every thread. If people want to talk about things that aren't hockey, add a sub-forum, make all the threads in there, and keep them off the home page. 

I like this take. It's good to hear from a mostly lurker.

 

While I think a politics sub-forum is a bad idea, if there was an OT sub-forum, a politics thread could be hidden away in there, as well as all the other OT threads, leaving just the hockey talk on the main page.

[PASabreFan]

Balance key to whole wife. Err, life. We're a touch out of balance. If everyone agreed to talk a little more hockey and a little less off-topic, including politics, themselves and the board itself, we'll be fine. SabreSpace will be fine...

[spndnchz]

The thread about the Russian /snip

 

Thought we made it pretty clear that spamming other threads, starting bogus threads, etc was violation of TOS.

 

For all: Just because a few, and I mean a few, seem to want to voice their opinion publicly about moderation does not mean that the "masses" agree.

 

You're a great poster qwk. Let's talk hockey.

[nfreeman]

SabreSpace will indeed be fine.

 

We're going to keep the political threads closed for the time being (i.e. probably until a few weeks after the holidays) and then re-evaluate. 

 

To reiterate, the point of this action was to improve the overall vibe around the board.  It was a contentious year, both in the real world and on this board.  There was a lot of hostility, name-calling, accusations of bad faith, stupidity, bigotry, etc.  Posters left the board as a direct result of the politics thread.

 

I think I can speak for the other mods in saying that none of us has any desire to warn or suspend anyone.  I will ask that posters respect the decision, even if they disagree with it, and not force our hands, which is what Qwk did.

 

I will suggest that anyone hankering for political discussion should visit 2BD, or pm each other, or start a reddit thread for SabreSpace political talk, or any other similar measure.  There are plenty of other available outlets for this type of conversation.

[TrueBlueGED]

Speaking as someone who's mostly lurked around the past ten years, coming on and seeing no hockey talk on the home page slowly pushed me off the site. Now when I'm on it isn't for long because every thread because polluted with other ######. Just my opinion, but the board just isn't as fun anymore, and gets less fun when checking in regularly and seeing nothing but senseless arguing in every thread. If people want to talk about things that aren't hockey, add a sub-forum, make all the threads in there, and keep them off the home page.

I'll keep it short: I don't think we have enough NHL fans writ-large to sustain a main page without OT threads, particularly when the Sabres are struggling. The main page would be a veritable desert wasteland without the other threads.

[WildCard]

I'll keep it short: I don't think we have enough NHL fans writ-large to sustain a main page without OT threads, particularly when the Sabres are struggling. The main page would be a veritable desert wasteland without the other threads.

Yup. And when we discourage the people who are the most active on here about talking about their favorite topics, it's only going to get real empty, real quick Edited December 21, 2016 by WildCard

[TrueBlueGED]

SabreSpace will indeed be fine.

 

We're going to keep the political threads closed for the time being (i.e. probably until a few weeks after the holidays) and then re-evaluate.

 

To reiterate, the point of this action was to improve the overall vibe around the board. It was a contentious year, both in the real world and on this board. There was a lot of hostility, name-calling, accusations of bad faith, stupidity, bigotry, etc. Posters left the board as a direct result of the politics thread.

 

I think I can speak for the other mods in saying that none of us has any desire to warn or suspend anyone. I will ask that posters respect the decision, even if they disagree with it, and not force our hands, which is what Qwk did.

 

I will suggest that anyone hankering for political discussion should visit 2BD, or pm each other, or start a reddit thread for SabreSpace political talk, or any other similar measure. There are plenty of other available outlets for this type of conversation.

Why wasn't such a measure taken four years ago? Three? Two? However long the politics thread has been around? At any point since it started, there have been some pretty harsh conversations (to say nothing of the multiple Kane sexual assault threads), yet it was allowed to continue.

 

The timing of the closure and banning of political discourse reeks to the high heavens.

[sodbuster]

I will suggest that anyone hankering for political discussion should visit 2BD, or pm each other, or start a reddit thread for SabreSpace political talk, or any other similar measure. There are plenty of other available outlets for this type of conversation.

You don't build a community by telling people to leave it.

[LTS]

Why wasn't such a measure taken four years ago? Three? Two? However long the politics thread has been around? At any point since it started, there have been some pretty harsh conversations (to say nothing of the multiple Kane sexual assault threads), yet it was allowed to continue.

 

The timing of the closure and banning of political discourse reeks to the high heavens.

 

Sometimes the timing of things is based on factors outside of ones control.  Moreover, when something reaches the tipping point then its time to take action.  We've seen coaches fired after a win right?  Always seems counter-intuitive but it happens.

 

I'm not defending or blaming just saying that we'd be better off with an understanding of the situation.

 

As I see it, we've been told they will stay closed for a bit while the mods discuss what they want to do.  I'm good with that.  Primarily I am here to discuss hockey and I enjoy other discourse but there is no doubt that many people cannot keep the discourse at a civil level and that's when the value of the threads degrade.  

 

Some of the missing fall into the ones who grow tired of it and some are the ones who perpetuate it.  Unfortunately losing many of the posters mean we lose more good than bad from each of their individual contributions.

[dudacek]

I've tried to stay out of this. I understand there are many Irwins out there and that is who the moderators are trying to serve.

I think Chz and Freeman do a solid job and I respect them both.

 

I think the current course of action is wrong. Worse, SDS has made it clear that my opinion does not matter.

That's not how you build and maintain community.

 

The board has been a pissy place this fall. I've taken a couple breaks because of it myself. I mostly blame the Sabres.

But a community needs to heal itself. Posters aren't children to be ignored because father knows best.

The baby has been thrown out with the bath water.

[nfreeman]

I'll keep it short: I don't think we have enough NHL fans writ-large to sustain a main page without OT threads, particularly when the Sabres are struggling. The main page would be a veritable desert wasteland without the other threads.

Yup. And when we discourage the people who are the most active on here about talking about their favorite topics, it's only going to get real empty, real quick

 

 

Straw man.  There are currently active OT threads on religion, science, movies/TV, and the Bills. 

 

 

Why wasn't such a measure taken four years ago? Three? Two? However long the politics thread has been around? At any point since it started, there have been some pretty harsh conversations (to say nothing of the multiple Kane sexual assault threads), yet it was allowed to continue.

 

The timing of the closure and banning of political discourse reeks to the high heavens.

 

You are far from the only one who has made this accusation (whether explicitly or implicitly).  I will ask you, and everyone else inclined to make this accusation, to consider:

 

- You can choose to disbelieve the mods' explanation for the thread closure if you like.  That is up to you -- but you should understand that this type of accusation of bad faith and bias (i.e. "you say you closed the thread because of the bad vibes -- but I think you're lying -- I think you closed it because you don't want to read political statements that differ from your views") is, again, exactly the kind of discourse that results in people getting fed up and leaving the board, thus leading to the mods taking these steps.

 

- In this regard, you might consider how you would feel if I were to accuse you of disliking the 2BD board simply because most there disagree with you politically -- i.e. "you say you don't like the 2BD board because people are ill-mannered there and you prefer to chat with the SabreSpace posters -- but I think you're lying -- I think you just don't like it because most there disagree with you."  It's an inherently obnoxious, aggressive statement.

 

- As for the substance of your accusation:  I have no idea whether any of the mods voted for Trump (I did not). Each of us is 100% in agreement with the thread closure. In addition, plenty of posters from both political sides support the closure.

 

- Also, the ratio of leftist posters to rightist hasn't changed -- it's always been, and remains, at least 75% leftist. The only thing that has changed is that one side won the election. Since you apparently believe the closure was politically motivated -- wouldn't the "winning" side want to keep it open and savor in the enactment of their agenda?

 

 

As for the reasons for closing the thread now, as opposed to several years ago -- I think LTS' point about reaching a tipping point is spot on.  Generally, my perspective (and that of the other mods may differ) is that the discourse got worse and worse this year, and the mods got together at some point and decided that it wasn't working.  I will also note that there was a lengthy period of time, before the politics thread was started, in which political discussion wasn't permitted here (there was a British poster who kept starting it who was pretty uniformly shunned).

[Sabres Fan in NS]

LTS,

 

I like your 'tipping point' idea.

 

SDS has stated that in his mind the worst thing he ever did in managing both of his boards was allowing the politics thread on the Bills site, if I recall correctly.

 

Therefore, he reached his tipping point here.

[TrueBlueGED]

Sometimes the timing of things is based on factors outside of ones control. Moreover, when something reaches the tipping point then its time to take action. We've seen coaches fired after a win right? Always seems counter-intuitive but it happens.

 

I'm not defending or blaming just saying that we'd be better off with an understanding of the situation.

 

As I see it, we've been told they will stay closed for a bit while the mods discuss what they want to do. I'm good with that. Primarily I am here to discuss hockey and I enjoy other discourse but there is no doubt that many people cannot keep the discourse at a civil level and that's when the value of the threads degrade.

 

Some of the missing fall into the ones who grow tired of it and some are the ones who perpetuate it. Unfortunately losing many of the posters mean we lose more good than bad from each of their individual contributions.

To be clear, I wasn't assigning causality, just reiterating my stance that it's a really bad look.

 

Maybe it'll work out in the long run, but I'm the short run the closure of the thread is having the exact opposite of the desired effect. The spillover into other threads is both significant and obnoxious (and I say this as someone who generally enjoys political debate). Maybe it'll work out in the long run, but the people who left because of the thread aren't coming back, and in the meantime we're losing and/or alienating a host of others.

 

Having the politics thread in the first place may have been opening Pandora's Box with unintended consequences...but it's open now, and there's no putting everything back inside. I suspect there's a hope among the mods that the closure is causing only temporary friction that will dissipate with time and everything will be back to normal times from before the thread's existence. I not only find this unlikely, but I think it may be causing irreparable damage that doesn't simply get fixed even if the thread is re-opened. So we get the worst of all worlds.

Straw man. There are currently active OT threads on religion, science, movies/TV, and the Bills.

Reading comprehension. WildCard and I were responding to a post saying there shouldn't be any OT threads on the main forum, that it should be exclusively hockey talk. It wasn't about the politics thread.

 

Edit: Don't have time to respond to the rest at the moment, but I shall.

Edited December 21, 2016 by TrueBlueGED

[Sabres Fan in NS]

TrueBlue,

 

I believe that the 'temporary friction' will only lessen and be eliminated when the Sabres are good, scary good, again.  Also, that is when most of the MIAs will return.

[That Aud Smell]

Maybe it's because I avoided the Politics Thread like the plague, but the amount of dust and dander that people are kicking up over its closure is a bit strange to me.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Maybe it's because I avoided the Politics Thread like the plague, but the amount of dust and dander that people are kicking up over its closure is a bit strange to me.

 

I have enjoyed that thread, for the most part, but do not miss it.  I am actually in support of it being closed.  I believe it has run it's course.

 

That said, I would support a 'current events' type thread, so long as we can control ourselves.

[Doohickie]

Maybe it's because I avoided the Politics Thread like the plague, but the amount of dust and dander that people are kicking up over its closure is a bit strange to me.

 

My issue with it is that people are trolling the hockey threads with political references as a form of protest.  I can take or leave the politics thread.  Interesting to read and occasionally contribute, but I don't mind if it's not available to me.  It's the spillover into other threads that frustrates me.

That said, I would support a 'current events' type thread, so long as we can control ourselves.

 

No real difference.  That's pretty much what that was anyway.

[elcrusho]

I'm glad I didn't make "The List"