inkman Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 (edited) disagree.. I again counter with smehlik would spend all game making stupid plays and like a blind squirrel he would eventually find a nut. most of the time I think Myers plays a solid game with moments of good but he will have 1 or 2 moments that make you question his IQ status Richard Shmelik was a good NHL defenseman Edited October 18, 2014 by inkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Richard Shmelik was a good NHL defenseman Yep. He was a whipping boy here, not because he was lousy, but because we needed him to be better than he was. But he was solid. Comparing Myers to Smehlik isn't condemnation at all. And Zhitnick received All Star game consideration for a good chunk of his career. You can't compare Myers to Zhitnick until he starts getting mentioned as an All Star game candidate. LOOOOONNNNG way to go for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 $50 Myers is knocked unconcious within 10 games.... He has been stroked enough by the staff to "just go for it", that the fans marvel at the freakshow taking the puck into the zone. If you notice...he has one move. He takes it full speed along the left boards and goes behind the net. No threat of driving to the net, no toch to set up something in front....just head down...full speed....along the left sidewall. If he doesn't croak from a popped aorta, a team that watches tape will do the job soon...... The problem isn't that he only has one move (my friend's mom calls it the Sunday Drive, I think he learned it from Ennis). The problem is that there are no forwards on this team that can keep up with him. There are no plays drawn up and he has nowhere to go with the puck once he get's it deep. Last night he went all the way around the net and in all that time, there still were no other players in a good spot to receive a pass (not that they would have been able to collect it anyway). I like Myers. I think the Smehlik comparison is a good one. Richard Shmelik was a good NHL defenseman His name is on the Stanley Cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 $50 Myers is knocked unconcious within 10 games.... That would be by the end of the Oilers game on Nov. 7. I'll take that action. Same charities as last time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 That's the thing.....Myers is somewhere between Smehlik and Zhitnik at his best, and has collected $20 million the past 3 years...AND...will count 5.5 million against the cap for a team. People are acting like he is untouchable and are "insulted" by the thought he gets traded for anyone besides Crosby. I remember a few years ago saying Myers at best was a mix between Svboda and Hajt, who might sniff an all-star game or 2. I may have overrated him. Doug Bodger was a better overall player by far. He had speed, the shot from the point (which he could control), had hockey smarts, and although no bull in his own end, was never afraid to drop the gloves or at least play the body. A 6'8", 24 year old man gives a jab to someone in the helmet after he just got shish-ka-bobbed in the nads.....and people want to celebrate it and give him a cookie. I am convinced that it has been so long since the city has seen a viable team with actual character and skill, that discussion is not worth it at this point. The rebuild can't start until the fire is put out and the land is cleared. It's still smouldering right now. It's horrible. I didn't even know there was a game yesterday and had freaking Entertainment Tonight on in the background for the 1st period. Sad. That would be by the end of the Oilers game on Nov. 7. I'll take that action. Same charities as last time? No. I would take 1,000-1 that Myers is no longer in the league in 5 years. I'm assuming if he is traded, he will have to pass a full physical. If a cardiac screening test is acceptable protocol, he is a marfan enlarged aorta away from getting nothing in return for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patty16 Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Are any of the aforemoentioned players better than Myers at the same age? Not every player's career track is a straight line, Myers started high, crashed and is slowly coming back up. No one has any idea how he will continue to develop. He's still a baby learning a man's game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Are any of the aforemoentioned players better than Myers at the same age? Not every player's career track is a straight line, Myers started high, crashed and is slowly coming back up. No one has any idea how he will continue to develop. He's still a baby learning a man's game. Zhitnik was probably a bit better at 24. That would be his 1st full season in Buffalo, 4th full season in the NHL. By then he'd had seasons of 48 and 52 points and a 100 PIM season. And a trip to the Stanley Cup finals playing a big role as a rookie with LA. From what I recall of Smehlik, he came in after a couple pro seasons in Europe and had his best year in Buffalo statistically in year 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjd1001 Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 A guy like Myers is always going to be viewed on how the team around him plays, regardless of how he plays. If he's on a team like the Sabres are now, many people are going to focus on his shortcomings and say he is average at best. If he is on a top 5-8 team in the league, he can play the EXACT same way, but if the team wins, he'd be viewed by many (including across the league) as one of the best D-men in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Are any of the aforemoentioned players better than Myers at the same age? Not every player's career track is a straight line, Myers started high, crashed and is slowly coming back up. No one has any idea how he will continue to develop. He's still a baby learning a man's game. He's not a baby. He's 24 and has been in the league 6 years. Zhitnik was better at this level. Doug Bodger is the best comparison as he had the exact same skill set but was not as tall. He also was much more willing to use his body for positioning and would regulary stick up for guys instinctively, although he didn't go looking for it. Drafted #9 Started at 18 in NHL Put up 30-50 oints his first few years Bodger got traded to Buffalo at 22 for Barrasso and QB'd the PP and was a consistant 40-50 point guy. He would actually burn out in his late 20's and was just a lower pairing guy his last few years. Bodger did everything Myers does but better and more consistantly, save Myers' reach. He also wasn't a head case. It took a package of him and a promising young 18yo forward just drafted #4 to get a goalie who while was in his prime, had already been used up and was being questioned. In today's NHL, this trade would be like giving up Myers and Reinhart for Carey Price. I don't think anyone here is talking about putting Bodger's number in the rafters, and he was as consistant as they came. The reality is, if you want a proven 60-70 point skill forward who is in his mid 20's and can be a top line guy, you will need to trade Myers, a Risto/Girg/Rienhart, and a few 2nd rounders. I'd be happy to take Larkin and Detroit's first for Myers and a 2nd. The Sabres love Larkin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 I did love me some Doug Bodger. He too was unfairly criticized. A great D man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Ghost was Larkin Murray's Target when he was trying to trade all three second rounders last draft? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Ghost was Larkin Murray's Target when he was trying to trade all three second rounders last draft? I have no idea, but I think they were thrilled Lemieux fell to them as they got 1 of 2 similar folks. I thought they really liked Barbashev though, so I may have been a little off. Larkin was on their radar even pre-TM. I am convinced that Murray has been trying to move Myers all along. Myers is sort of like the guy in the camo jean jacket sitting on the subway next to you. Nolan has been all smiles, and listening to his ramblings as the guy picks his teeth with a hunting knife. Meanwhile, the whole time you are counting the seconds to get off at the next stop, even though it isn't your stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 I have no idea, but I think they were thrilled Lemieux fell to them as they got 1 of 2 similar folks. I thought they really liked Barbashev though, so I may have been a little off. Larkin was on their radar even pre-TM. I am convinced that Murray has been trying to move Myers all along. Myers is sort of like the guy in the camo jean jacket sitting on the subway next to you. Nolan has been all smiles, and listening to his ramblings as the guy picks his teeth with a hunting knife. Meanwhile, the whole time you are counting the seconds to get off at the next stop, even though it isn't your stop. Nice imagery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sicknfla Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 I have no idea, but I think they were thrilled Lemieux fell to them as they got 1 of 2 similar folks. I thought they really liked Barbashev though, so I may have been a little off. Larkin was on their radar even pre-TM. I am convinced that Murray has been trying to move Myers all along. Myers is sort of like the guy in the camo jean jacket sitting on the subway next to you. Nolan has been all smiles, and listening to his ramblings as the guy picks his teeth with a hunting knife. Meanwhile, the whole time you are counting the seconds to get off at the next stop, even though it isn't your stop. I agree with you. We usually only debate what we see on the ice. Maybe the guy is a complete headcase. Usually seeing a psychologist before your 23 is not the best sign. Have to go with GMTM on this and accept that if he does move him it may be for reasons that we are never privy to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Have to go with GMTM on this and accept that if he does move him it may be for reasons that we are never privy to. This. Who knows what is going on in the locker room, during practice, team meetings, on the road, or away from the rink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patty16 Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 He's not a baby. He's 24 and has been in the league 6 years. Zhitnik was better at this level. Doug Bodger is the best comparison as he had the exact same skill set but was not as tall. He also was much more willing to use his body for positioning and would regulary stick up for guys instinctively, although he didn't go looking for it. Drafted #9 Started at 18 in NHL Put up 30-50 oints his first few years Bodger got traded to Buffalo at 22 for Barrasso and QB'd the PP and was a consistant 40-50 point guy. He would actually burn out in his late 20's and was just a lower pairing guy his last few years. Bodger did everything Myers does but better and more consistantly, save Myers' reach. He also wasn't a head case. It took a package of him and a promising young 18yo forward just drafted #4 to get a goalie who while was in his prime, had already been used up and was being questioned. In today's NHL, this trade would be like giving up Myers and Reinhart for Carey Price. I don't think anyone here is talking about putting Bodger's number in the rafters, and he was as consistant as they came. The reality is, if you want a proven 60-70 point skill forward who is in his mid 20's and can be a top line guy, you will need to trade Myers, a Risto/Girg/Rienhart, and a few 2nd rounders. I'd be happy to take Larkin and Detroit's first for Myers and a 2nd. The Sabres love Larkin. No he's still young for a Dman. He's a big man, and they take longer to develop generally. But i'm sure from your astute knowledge of talent evaluation you already knew that. For example, Hedman from TBL is 6'6 and wasn't tearing it up until last year, he's 23. Again he's still growing into his body. And Bodger was putting up 40+ pts a season when Dmen were scoring 100pts a year. Last year only 8 guys scoring more than 50 and no one was close to 100. It's not the same NHL as the 90s so lets not use 90s scoring #s to compare. I'm not sure what you're getting at, he's never gonna be an all star level dman in your opinion but Detroit should give us one of their top prospects AND a 1st? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl Shannon's +/- Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Not for nothing, but Myers is somehow still even for his +/- and he is miles better than he was at the beginning of last year. Remember, this is a guy who could barely carry the puck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Not for nothing, but Myers is somehow still even for his +/- That is amazeballs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 We've been through this. Again, I suggest that an "elite" player should lift up his teammates and should win the battles against the other team's best. All teams have "first pair" defensemen who play in all situations and go up against the opponent's best every night. All of these 20-30 minute d-men at various times throughout the game are paired with different forward lines from their own team. The top teams have guys who win the best-on-best battles with the other team's best. The top teams have d-men who are able to generate offense (e.g., break out of the zone, start the rush) regardless of which forward line they're on the ice with. I watch Shea Weber regularly down here in Nashville and he performs regardless of whom he is paired with, regardless of which forwards he is going up against (it is always the league's best), and regardless of which Preds forward line is on the ice. ... my high-level suggestion is when a team is really bad over an extended period of time, sometimes the big minute players are simply not as good as the other team's big minute players. I agree with everyone that one reason Myers gets huge minutes is his teammates are terrible. But, I should see him dominate once in a while if he truly is a special player and I just don't see it. For example, he leads the team in power play minutes but has no points. I think what some see as "great play" by Myers is average play by other team's standards and the reference point is lowered because our other defensemen are so terrible (and yes, I know most here disagree with me). So, at an even for +/- is it fair to say he's winning his battles? The Sabres forwards are unable to put themselves into positions to break out of the zone. This has been a long standing problem. I understand what you are saying but when you play for a team as bad as the Sabres were last year and appear to be this year it will skew things no matter. There are no comparisons to be made when a team sucks this bad and cannot score. You can't use comparisons to other players because right now the Sabres are a statistical outlier. They suck, bad. I agree with you totally. I am totally baffled why people think Myers is anything special. I will admit he has been solid so far this year, which is a huge departure from how he started other seasons. But I haven't seen him do anything spectacular. Nobody ever seems to respond, but I am genuinely curious what people think his upside is. Nobody ever wants to hear this, but he draws serious comparisons to Mike Wilson, another large defenseman from years gone by. Myers has more offensive ability than Wilson, but on the defensive side, I see no difference. Neither of them utilize(d) their size properly. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, what is the point of having a 6'8 defenseman who isn't intimidating? The guy doesn't have to fight everyone in sight or throw huge checks every shift, but he could skate with a carton of eggs out there without breaking any right now. So to me, his size doesn't mean anything. His skating ability is really nothing to write home about either. "Skates well for a big man" is an under-handed compliment. It equates to...."Wow, I would expect you to fall over every two seconds, so the fact you show some dexterity is amazing". I think Myers upside is that the is a legitimate top NHL defense man. The fact that he is 6'8 is irrelevant to me. It just means he has a longer reach. I look at his play and I see him doing a lot of things right as far as what D should do. His lack of scoring doesn't bother me because the entire team can't score. The opposition is doing well to try and limit his puck rushing and they can because there generally are no other Sabres on the ice capable of opening up the opposition. No team fears the speed or skill of the Sabres, nor should they. No team plays afraid of the Sabres. They can afford to take huge risks in forechecking because they know the Sabres are likely going to not burn them. The comparison is to watch how teams play against better teams and then see the more aggressive style they play against the Sabres. I agree with you. We usually only debate what we see on the ice. Maybe the guy is a complete headcase. Usually seeing a psychologist before your 23 is not the best sign. Have to go with GMTM on this and accept that if he does move him it may be for reasons that we are never privy to. When you've been on this team as long as he has can you really question the need for a shrink? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Babies drown every time +/- is used to evaluate a player. Please stop. For the children! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Myers is the best Sabres skater right now. He appears to me to be thinking significantly faster than our forwards, and much more consistently creative on offense. His game in his own end is a work in progress, but it's miles beyond where he was last year. On a team with real forwards, Myers gets all his flashy stats and nobody doubts he's a top pairing guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Yep. He was a whipping boy here, not because he was lousy, but because we needed him to be better than he was. But he was solid. Comparing Myers to Smehlik isn't condemnation at all. And Zhitnick received All Star game consideration for a good chunk of his career. You can't compare Myers to Zhitnick until he starts getting mentioned as an All Star game candidate. LOOOOONNNNG way to go for that. Considering the most common call Rick made from the Sabres' end not including the word 'Hasek' was Smehlik clears the puck ... not out' comparing Myers to him can easily be considered condemnation. Dunleavy doesn't have a trademark 'Myers clears it ... not out' call. Until he does, I'll consider the comparison to be a backhanded compliment. Zhitnik was probably a bit better at 24. That would be his 1st full season in Buffalo, 4th full season in the NHL. By then he'd had seasons of 48 and 52 points and a 100 PIM season. And a trip to the Stanley Cup finals playing a big role as a rookie with LA. From what I recall of Smehlik, he came in after a couple pro seasons in Europe and had his best year in Buffalo statistically in year 2. What might have been of his career had McKinney not been hired. He looked extremely promising prior to the knee injury. He was never the same after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 Considering the most common call Rick made from the Sabres' end not including the word 'Hasek' was Smehlik clears the puck ... not out' comparing Myers to him can easily be considered condemnation. Dunleavy doesn't have a trademark 'Myers clears it ... not out' call. Until he does, I'll consider the comparison to be a backhanded compliment. What might have been of his career had McKinney not been hired. He looked extremely promising prior to the knee injury. He was never the same after that. The thing is, That call became WAY more prevalent after Smehlik left. He even added a "but" to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted October 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 Some talks that the Flyers are interested in moving Brayden Schenn. Would be interested there, but I don't want Myers in Philly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 19, 2014 Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 Babies drown every time +/- is used to evaluate a player. Please stop. For the children! Normally, I'd agree, but when you have the goal differential we have, being even is amazing. Quite a feat, actually. GO SABRES!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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