Winning in garbage time

[dudacek]

This is going to be one of the great debates of the summer.

Harrington asked Okposo about it this morning. Kyle called it a tricky question because ordinarily he’d say these wins don’t really matter.

What he thinks might be different is that the Sabres didn’t win because they were loose and had nothing on the line, they won because they prepared and played as though they were in the race and those habits can carry over.

Thoughtful stuff, like we typically get from Dad. Ill post the video later.

[Taro T]

It probably will be a significant portion of this summer's conversation 'round here.

Where is this team REALLY right now?  Is it the worst in the league that it showed from November to March, the playoff level team it was after the calendar flipped to March, or something in between?  Pretty sure most would say in between.

They took a strange road to get there, but the standings say they're in the same class as teams like San Jose and Ottawa and that seems about right all things considered.  Would like to think they should be w/ the Aisles & Jets right now, but if this EXACT same team came back expect the goaltending would doom them to be a step back from that.

On paper this team'll need to find 21-25 points to reach the playoffs next year, but their skaters probably are good enough that they should be an Aisles level team today, so simply getting league average goaltending gets them  9 or 10 of them.  (We can hope, right?)

Would also agree with Okposo that they did seem to be preparing different down the stretch.  The coach started to match lines regularly.  When things weren't working, lines & pairings changed in game, and when Bjork & Hayden were in the lineup the bench shortened significantly in the 3rd.  Didn't see the 4th line out at all in the 3rd.  (Maybe Krebs caught a shift somewhere, but didn't notice him and had been looking.)  Earlier in the year, except for the rare experimentation, e.g. playing Cozens vs McDavid, there was little line matching & almost no shortening of the bench nor situational deployment adjustment.  So, they probably could've won a few more games early in the year w/ a more standard coaching philosophy.  Though the question remains, though the Sabres did seem focused & not necessarily loose, did their playoff caliber opponents take them seriously?  Even if Kyle is right & their results shouldn't be discounted because they were focused & preparing as professionals, were their opponents able to bring their A games against what the standings said were significantly inferior opponents.

 Will be interesting to see if Adams can bring in those 3-4 pieces many here expect (1G, 2RD, 4C, maybe another F) to see him get.  Will also be interesting to see how much another full off-season will benefit the kids.  And it likely can't be understated how much an off-season w/out drama will help them in staying focused.

Somewhat unrelated note.  Will also be interesting to see how many teams seem to want to challenge the Yotes for 32nd next year.  If there's more than 1 or 2, that might skew next year's standings some.  If there's a bunch, that'll help them get more points in the RS.   And not sure if that'll make it easier or harder to claw into the playoffs.  

[That Aud Smell]

As much as I enjoyed the final stretch of this season, I don’t put stock in the idea that this team will inevitably pick up where it left off when October rolls around. This will be a long offseason. The personnel will change slightly - making chemistry different in September. And all of their opponents will have much to play for when the 22-23 season begins. The Sabres will have to find their way anew - and the experience of the latter portion of 21-22 will help, but it won’t guarantee anything.

Some consistently solid goaltending should guarantee improvement though. 🤞 

[LGR4GM]

When the Sabres make the playoffs next year, I will be buying a Kyle Okposo jersey, and it will have a C on it. 

Edited April 30, 2022 by LGR4GM
That jersey should have a C on it

[That Aud Smell]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

When the Sabres make the playoffs next year, I will be buying a Kyle Okposo jersey. 

Colour me inspired. Same!

[Taro T]

14 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

As much as I enjoyed the final stretch of this season, I don’t put stock in the idea that this team will inevitably pick up where it left off when October rolls around. This will be a long offseason. The personnel will change slightly - making chemistry different in September. And all of their opponents will have much to play for when the 22-23 season begins. The Sabres will have to find their way anew - and the experience of the latter portion of 21-22 will help, but it won’t guarantee anything.

Some consistently solid goaltending should guarantee improvement though. 🤞 

IMHO, the is little doubt that they'll come out of the gate quickly & look like a playoff team in October.  Where the rubber meets the road will be November once the better teams are back into getting up for the RS games again.

If they start slowly, it'll be an 'oh, (shoot)' moment & might have them in the Berard derby afterall.  That'd be a tragic outcome, wasting the goodwill they've generated since March.

[Weave]

7 minutes ago, Taro T said:

IMHO, the is little doubt that they'll come out of the gate quickly & look like a playoff team in October.  Where the rubber meets the road will be November once the better teams are back into getting up for the RS games again.

If they start slowly, it'll be an 'oh, (shoot)' moment & might have them in the Berard derby afterall.  That'd be a tragic outcome, wasting the goodwill they've generated since March.

Every October someone posts some sort of “is this what the Sabres are” thread, and every year I answer with “ask me again around Thanksgiving (murican).

Teams always start the season a bit loose.  But by Thanksgiving changes to systems and players have been tested and tweaked and the cream starts rising to the top.

Will be really interesting to see what they look like in mid to late November. IMO that will be an important time for evaluation.

Edited April 30, 2022 by Weave

[dudacek]

25 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

When the Sabres make the playoffs next year, I will be buying a Kyle Okposo jersey, and it will have a C on it. 

They asked him about that

Said it won’t change a thing about his approach. If it happens he’s honoured. If it’s someone else he’ll be that guysbiggest supporter.

I think there might be a run on those jerseys

[GASabresIUFAN]

Playing our the string is one thing.  Going 16-9-3 since March including 22 games (10-9-3 record) against teams in the playoffs or trying to make the playoffs is quite another

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

Where is this team REALLY right now? 

Last summer (and earlier) we spent a lot of time arguing about whether there was a cultural problem, whether or not certain stars were the problem or not, coaching and lack of talent, which was the bigger problem and should we add or tear it down. I think it's pretty clear now in hindsight that tear down and removal of certain pieces was essential, the culture was bad, even toxic, and it was impossible to build on that. 

Now I think it's also pretty clear that the culture has shifted, the tear down worked, and we can can now build on a new optimistic foundation. People do and will want to be here again and things should get better and better. The question will really be one of how fast. Do we make big moves and try to rise faster or do we do that slow and steady climb not to upset things? We, as fans, will be impatient as a whole, but I think as long as it keeps going in the right direction we will be okay.

It's just a joy to see smiles and good positive comments from the players. Anderson saying he wished he was younger to stay part of it I thought was really revealing and says its a real thing. Its nice to go into an off season with hope and optimism for a change rather than who/what gets the most blame. That'll be a culture shift for sabrespace too. 

We're going to be good again. Just a question of how soon and how fast.  

(I didn't disagree with the rest of your post, just wanted to focus on this one question)

[steveoath]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

When the Sabres make the playoffs next year, I will be buying a Kyle Okposo jersey, and it will have a C on it. 

I'm jumping the gun and ordered my Okposo jersey last week. The guy has been just a terrific human and leader. I can always add the C later!

[Doohickie]

I like Kyle's answer.

My answer:  I'd rather win than lose, garbage time or not.  Just win, baby.

[MBD]

Just play next year like you did the 2nd half of this season.  Regardless of whether it was because they were out of it or because they prepared and played like they were in it.

[triumph_communes]

They beat a bunch of teams who needed points. Wasn’t garbage time. 

[jad1]

I don't think these wins were in garbage time.  If this were a 'veteren' team, sure, maybe.

This was a young team learning to win.  And they won enough event games that brought extra pressure to test their mettle.

It also showed their limits to some extent, with losses to Florida, Boston, and Tampa during the streak, so there's some balance to give the team a good idea where they stand in the offseason.

Adams has gotten a good read on the team this season.  It'll be interesting to see his moves moving forward.

[Marvin]

This team is clearly behind the elite.  Improved goaltending should get them to the level of this season's Islanders, Blue Jackets, Canucks, and Jets.

I personally would prefer Bryson, Fitzgerald, and Pysyk in the 7/8 roles next season.

One thing that must improve is forward depth.  We must improve on Eakin, Bjork, etc.

[PromoTheRobot]

Does losing matter in garbage time? Apparently it does. So why not winning?

[pi2000]

On 4/30/2022 at 9:09 AM, LGR4GM said:

When the Sabres make the playoffs next year, I will be buying a Kyle Okposo jersey, and it will have a C on it. 

 

He had his best year as a Sabre (most goals, points, etc), his effort level was off the charts and he was a difference maker.    

Where has this effort been the past 5 years?

He was a guy they signed during his prime, was a key piece to turning the franchise around, yet he quickly became a non-factor  and faded to JAG status.

Sure you can point at ice time, line-mates, coaching, etc... but still he's entirely responsible for his effort level, and it just wasn't there for the previous 5 seasons.... and for that reason part of me still wishes he was gone.

Edited May 2, 2022 by pi2000

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Yes.  Every single win matters.

As far as a *C* on a sweater next season.  It may be Kyle.  It may not be Kyle.  If the *C* is not on Kyle's sweater next season it will make no difference.  Kyle is the Captain of this team.

And @pi2000 ... the guy was either coached by morons or barely clinging to life for most of those 5 years.  WTF!!  Are we talking about the same Kyle here?

[Eleven]

21 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

 

He had his best year as a Sabre (most goals, points, etc), his effort level was off the charts and he was a difference maker.    

Where has this effort been the past 5 years?

He was a guy they signed during his prime, was a key piece to turning the franchise around, yet he quickly became a non-factor  and faded to JAG status.

Sure you can point at ice time, line-mates, coaching, etc... but still he's entirely responsible for his effort level, and it just wasn't there for the previous 5 seasons.... and for that reason part of me still wishes he was gone.

Sisyphus put in a lot of effort, too, but you wouldn't know it from the results.  I never saw anything but full effort out of Okposo.

[North Buffalo]

20 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

 

He had his best year as a Sabre (most goals, points, etc), his effort level was off the charts and he was a difference maker.    

Where has this effort been the past 5 years?

He was a guy they signed during his prime, was a key piece to turning the franchise around, yet he quickly became a non-factor  and faded to JAG status.

Sure you can point at ice time, line-mates, coaching, etc... but still he's entirely responsible for his effort level, and it just wasn't there for the previous 5 seasons.... and for that reason part of me still wishes he was gone.

Now that is a red herring statement... not sure it deserves a rational response... alright not gonna so ack thupt!#%>}~!

[Taro T]

18 minutes ago, North Buffalo said:

Now that is a red herring statement... not sure it deserves a rational response... alright not gonna so ack thupt!#%>}~!

Channeling your inner Bill the Cat.  Awesome!

[SwampD]

43 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

 

He had his best year as a Sabre (most goals, points, etc), his effort level was off the charts and he was a difference maker.    

Where has this effort been the past 5 years?

He was a guy they signed during his prime, was a key piece to turning the franchise around, yet he quickly became a non-factor  and faded to JAG status.

Sure you can point at ice time, line-mates, coaching, etc... but still he's entirely responsible for his effort level, and it just wasn't there for the previous 5 seasons.... and for that reason part of me still wishes he was gone.

I don't agree with this at all. For a large part of his five years, he often looked like one of the only NHL level talent the Sabres had out there. And there were times when his effort and skill stood out drastically compared to others on the team.

I honestly don't know where people get this from.

[Marvin]

1 hour ago, pi2000 said:

 

He had his best year as a Sabre (most goals, points, etc), his effort level was off the charts and he was a difference maker.    

Where has this effort been the past 5 years?

He was a guy they signed during his prime, was a key piece to turning the franchise around, yet he quickly became a non-factor  and faded to JAG status.

Sure you can point at ice time, line-mates, coaching, etc... but still he's entirely responsible for his effort level, and it just wasn't there for the previous 5 seasons.... and for that reason part of me still wishes he was gone.

After recovering from his near death, once Housley put him with Larsson and Girgensons, Okposo has been one of the most effective Sabres game-in and game-out.  It did not always turn up on his side of the score sheet, but he certainly helped inhibit the opposition on the score sheet.

[Weave]

1 hour ago, pi2000 said:

 

He had his best year as a Sabre (most goals, points, etc), his effort level was off the charts and he was a difference maker.    

Where has this effort been the past 5 years?

He was a guy they signed during his prime, was a key piece to turning the franchise around, yet he quickly became a non-factor  and faded to JAG status.

Sure you can point at ice time, line-mates, coaching, etc... but still he's entirely responsible for his effort level, and it just wasn't there for the previous 5 seasons.... and for that reason part of me still wishes he was gone.

He damned near died.  It was a couple of seasons, and a couple more concussions before his game started to match the effort he was putting into it.