Is Don Granato the best coach the Sabres have had since Lindy Ruff?

[JoeSchmoe]

5 minutes ago, jsb said:

I'll await next year to make a judgement on the guy especially if KA makes a few moves to improve the roster.

This is where I'm at. If he gets the upgraded roster next year, especially goaltending, and does not show improvement, then you can say it's the coaching.

But for this year, the roster was a joke.

I was talking to some leaf fans last night that were absolutely laughing at who KA signed to play goalie this year. They also laughed at our "top" line of Tuch, Thompson, and Skinner, who by all intents and purposes sound like a 2nd or 3rd line for most teams. They did acknowledge that there could be a future in Power and Levi. They were unaware of Quinn and Peterkas stories though.

[nfreeman]

1 hour ago, jsb said:

Just to make sure that you do understand that the Kings have a 11-1-2 road record they are currently on which includes a victory at Boston yesterday. Losing 1-0 to that team discounting the 2 empty netters is far from a flat performance albeit a boring game in comparison to the 2 previous victories.

Having said that, everyone's opinion here I guess is valid but I'm not sure how you truly judge this guy with the roster he was given. Especially since the 2 guys we were expecting to be some of our better forwards have been injured and the GKs we have. I'll await next year to make a judgement on the guy especially if KA makes a few moves to improve the roster.

Yes -- the Kings are having a surprisingly good year and are comfortably in the playoffs.  And the Sabres didn't get manhandled.  But still -- they produced 19 shots, including 5 in the 3rd, when they were down 1-0 for most of the period, and IMHO simply didn't bring anywhere near the fire and blood they brought vs Minny and Toronto.  And I think there have been quite a few games like that this year.

 

1 hour ago, JoeSchmoe said:

This is where I'm at. If he gets the upgraded roster next year, especially goaltending, and does not show improvement, then you can say it's the coaching.

But for this year, the roster was a joke.

I was talking to some leaf fans last night that were absolutely laughing at who KA signed to play goalie this year. They also laughed at our "top" line of Tuch, Thompson, and Skinner, who by all intents and purposes sound like a 2nd or 3rd line for most teams. They did acknowledge that there could be a future in Power and Levi. They were unaware of Quinn and Peterkas stories though.

Overall I agree.  I just wish I had seen a bit more to convince me that the coaching is in fact quite good, as opposed to "well the roster stinks so this isn't his fault."

 

[pi2000]

He'd be perfect for Rochester.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

33 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

He'd be perfect for Rochester.

👀

[DarthEbriate]

2 hours ago, JoeSchmoe said:

This is where I'm at. If he gets the upgraded roster next year, especially goaltending, and does not show improvement, then you can say it's the coaching.

But for this year, the roster was a joke.

I was talking to some leaf fans last night that were absolutely laughing at who KA signed to play goalie this year. They also laughed at our "top" line of Tuch, Thompson, and Skinner, who by all intents and purposes sound like a 2nd or 3rd line for most teams. They did acknowledge that there could be a future in Power and Levi. They were unaware of Quinn and Peterkas stories though.

Speaking of the Leafs, when Granato was hired (interim removed) I figured we'd play up-tempo run-and-gun, much like those fledgling Leafs teams with baby Matthews and Marner. The key to that was the Leafs had league-average goaltending with late-20s/prime Freddie Andersen. He might not have been able to win in the playoffs, but he turned in solid middle-of-the-pack goaltending in a high-risk high-reward style. That's what we likely would have had with Ullmark. And Hutton was gone, likely for UPL. So it would have been fine -- give the Sabres a middle-of-the-League goalie and they're probably up in competition with Detroit and Columbus this season, which would be excellent given the state of the roster. Alas, Anderson is a backup at this point, Toker/UPL are AHL-starter level, and Dell is a good AHL goalie and a tire fire up here.

The one thing I'd like to see Granato do is to use a timeout when the game is getting away from his youthful team. Thankfully, it really has been few and far between. They're likely to give up 5 goals in a game, but many of those goals are empty netters. They rarely give up goals in bunches like they did to Florida. When it does happen, take the timeout and reset the structure.

[PASabreFan]

2 hours ago, pi2000 said:

He'd be perfect for Rochester.

Or as director of player development in Buffalo, if he's that good at it, instead of a former player who needs a job.

[K-9]

7 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

His record is worse then Ralph Krueger but lets crown him 

For crissakes. His record should be worse than Krueger’s given his best goalie, best center, and best winger all departed and the sheer number of injuries this season. What an absolutely myopic take. 

And please, point me to any post that has crowned DG with anything. 

[JohnC]

5 hours ago, K-9 said:

For crissakes. His record should be worse than Krueger’s given his best goalie, best center, and best winger all departed and the sheer number of injuries this season. What an absolutely myopic take. 

And please, point me to any post that has crowned DG with anything. 

As you point out few people have made the claim that DG can be categorized as a good NHL coach because at this time we simply don't know. What we do know is that players such as Dahlin, Mitts, Skinner, Tage have played demonstrably better under him than his predecessor. And as you point out this team has been stripped of its old core and replaced with another younger core.

I'm hoping that this organization makes a more concerted effort to upgrade the roster sooner than later. When and if that happens a fairer judgment can be made on his coaching performance. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

He's the best coach since RaKru.

[Sabel79]

I am reminded of a quote by Brian Cox, ex-Dolphin linebacker, beloved of all fans in Buffalo… but nevertheless… 

He once said of, I think the Dolphins at the end of Shula?  I dunno but the quote I remember: “You can have anybody coaching this team short of Jesus Christ and we’re still gonna lose.”

Apicable here.  Until upper management/ownership determines to put an NHL team with NHL players at every position out there, it’s going to suck.  Simple as.  

[PASabreFan]

1 hour ago, Sabel79 said:

I am reminded of a quote by Brian Cox, ex-Dolphin linebacker, beloved of all fans in Buffalo… but nevertheless… 

He once said of, I think the Dolphins at the end of Shula?  I dunno but the quote I remember: “You can have anybody coaching this team short of Jesus Christ and we’re still gonna lose.”

Apicable here.  Until upper management/ownership determines to put an NHL team with NHL players at every position out there, it’s going to suck.  Simple as.  

But, for me anyway, it's not about punishing Don Granato (hometown: Downers Grove, IL, which still bears the scar marks of the Martian invasion, but I digress

[GASabresIUFAN]

We have seen that bad coaching kills (RK), but I don’t think good coaching can make a bad team good.  The right coach can get a talented team to buy in and say go from being good to very good, and very good to excellent.  

I think we have seen that with the Bills.  However the Bills have also shown us that even good coaching can only take you so far.  The players have to execute and management needs to get not only good players but the right mix of players.  

DG simply doesn’t have enough good players in key positions and in general.  One thing in DG’s favor is he has, attitude wise, more of the right kind of players.  Moving on from guys like Hall, Jack, ROR, and Kane and other malcontents is a step in the right direction even if it drained significant talent.  

Edited March 9, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[woods-racer]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

We have seen that bad coaching kills (RK), but I don’t think good coaching can make a bad team good.  The right coach can get a talented team to buy in and say go from being good to very good, and very good to excellent.  

I think we have seen that with the Bills.  However the Bills have also shown us that even good coaching can take you so far.  The players have to execute and management needs to get not only good players but the right mix of players.  

DG simply doesn’t have enough good players in key positions and in general.  One thing in DG’s favor is he has, attitude wise, more of the right kind of players.  Moving on from guys like Hall, Jack, ROR, and Kane and other malcontents is a step in the right direction even if it drained significant talent.  

It does appear that this team is in a much better place mentally. The best way I can describe it is *they have some good vibes radiating*. 

[inkman]

 

[jad1]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

We have seen that bad coaching kills (RK), but I don’t think good coaching can make a bad team good.  The right coach can get a talented team to buy in and say go from being good to very good, and very good to excellent.  

I think we have seen that with the Bills.  However the Bills have also shown us that even good coaching can take you so far.  The players have to execute and management needs to get not only good players but the right mix of players.  

DG simply doesn’t have enough good players in key positions and in general.  One thing in DG’s favor is he has, attitude wise, more of the right kind of players.  Moving on from guys like Hall, Jack, ROR, and Kane and other malcontents is a step in the right direction even if it drained significant talent.  

I don't know about that.  Todd McLellen is mid-range NHL coach, but against Buffalo he put his team into  1-3-1 trap after gaining the lead and snuffed the Sabres out.

It's not a great coaching decision, but it is a competent one, and his team walked away with two points.  It was a coaching decision that didn't depend on the superior talent of his roster.  Again, nothing spectacular about his coaching, but the Kings are now 3rd in the Western conference after missing the playoffs the last few seasons thanks to emerging talent and competent coaching.

Granato has mentioned a few times that he is not a fan of the trap, which is fine, but the Sabres have a terrible record when playing with the lead in the 3rd period.  Would playing a trap with the lead help the team win games?  Would it stunt their development?

The team also has poor net-front presence and struggles covering the defensive zone.  You don't need top level players to be more assertive in front of your own net.  You don't need Power in the lineup to play better positionally in your own zone.  Coaching should be able to address these deficiencies.

These are a couple of areas where Granato's in-game coaching can be questioned  (there are more).  Not saying that he's the reason that the Sabres are not a playoff team (obviously talent is), but with better coaching, this team should be able climb out of the bottom 10 in the league.

In the end, it's great that players like Thompson and Dahlin and making progress in their development under Granato.  It's also promising that Skinner and Okposo have revived their careers playing for him. 

But if Granato can't translate those improvements into wins because the team can't protect a lead or clear their crease or cover their zone, he's not going to make it as an NHL coach.

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 hours ago, jad1 said:

I don't know about that.  Todd McLellen is mid-range NHL coach, but against Buffalo he put his team into  1-3-1 trap after gaining the lead and snuffed the Sabres out.

It's not a great coaching decision, but it is a competent one, and his team walked away with two points.  It was a coaching decision that didn't depend on the superior talent of his roster.  Again, nothing spectacular about his coaching, but the Kings are now 3rd in the Western conference after missing the playoffs the last few seasons thanks to emerging talent and competent coaching.

Granato has mentioned a few times that he is not a fan of the trap, which is fine, but the Sabres have a terrible record when playing with the lead in the 3rd period.  Would playing a trap with the lead help the team win games?  Would it stunt their development?

The team also has poor net-front presence and struggles covering the defensive zone.  You don't need top level players to be more assertive in front of your own net.  You don't need Power in the lineup to play better positionally in your own zone.  Coaching should be able to address these deficiencies.

These are a couple of areas where Granato's in-game coaching can be questioned  (there are more).  Not saying that he's the reason that the Sabres are not a playoff team (obviously talent is), but with better coaching, this team should be able climb out of the bottom 10 in the league.

In the end, it's great that players like Thompson and Dahlin and making progress in their development under Granato.  It's also promising that Skinner and Okposo have revived their careers playing for him. 

But if Granato can't translate those improvements into wins because the team can't protect a lead or clear their crease or cover their zone, he's not going to make it as an NHL coach.

The Kings have significantly more talent then the Sabres have including 3 future Hall of Fame players in Doughty, Koptiar and Quick.  They have 7 guys with double digit goals to our 4. Just compare their goaltending to ours. As I stated a good coach can make a good team very good and that is what McLellen has done, helped by HOF leadership in the locker room.  

I do agree that DG makes some poor in game coaching decisions, but again I want to know what he can do when we no longer has 8-10 JAGS on the roster.  

Edited March 10, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[LGR4GM]

Do ppl realize you can't just "clear the crease" anymore? 

Also when Granato gets decent goaltending and no eakin, I'll have more of feel. He's clearly more interested in teaching this team to play a style over suddenly putting them in the 1-3-1 trap.

[LGR4GM]

 

[SwampD]

On 3/9/2022 at 2:37 PM, GASabresIUFAN said:

The Kings have significantly more talent then the Sabres have including 3 future Hall of Fame players in Doughty, Koptiar and Quick.  They have 7 guys with double digit goals to our 4. Just compare their goaltending to ours. As I stated a good coach can make a good team very good and that is what McLellen has done, helped by HOF leadership in the locker room.  

I do agree that DG makes some poor in game coaching decisions, but again I want to know what he can do when we no longer has 8-10 JAGS on the roster.  

8 to 10 jags would be an improvment.

[klos1963]

On 3/8/2022 at 9:36 AM, JoeSchmoe said:

This is where I'm at. If he gets the upgraded roster next year, especially goaltending, and does not show improvement, then you can say it's the coaching.

But for this year, the roster was a joke.

I was talking to some leaf fans last night that were absolutely laughing at who KA signed to play goalie this year. They also laughed at our "top" line of Tuch, Thompson, and Skinner, who by all intents and purposes sound like a 2nd or 3rd line for most teams. They did acknowledge that there could be a future in Power and Levi. They were unaware of Quinn and Peterkas stories though.

Canadians love players that were in the world juniors. They are heroes for life after winning a gold.

They should know Quinn, but Peterkas isn't really a big story yet.

[JoeSchmoe]

32 minutes ago, klos1963 said:

Canadians love players that were in the world juniors. They are heroes for life after winning a gold.

They should know Quinn, but Peterkas isn't really a big story yet.

They know Quinn, but they're oblivious that he is arguably the top offensive player in the AHL this year.

Edited March 14, 2022 by JoeSchmoe

[triumph_communes]

I give Granato benefit of the doubt for fifth string goalie nonsense and all the other injuries. He took a team that was completely lost and got them having fun. And it’s with a bunch of kids and players everyone else gave up on. Wins come next. 

Edited March 14, 2022 by triumph_communes

[dudacek]

(Plug your eyes @PASabreFan)

4 and 4 so far in the March “murderer’s row” of Stl, Dal, Min, Tor, LA, Fla, VGK and TOR

Next up the annual western Canada Edm, Cal, Van trip, then back home for Pit and Was, then @NYR.

[K-9]

Enjoyed Granato’s post practice presser today. I’m on record as saying he may not be the coach that gets us to the cup, but that he is the right coach right now for this team and he gave another great indication of that in answering a question about how the team has has really bonded and come together as a tight group that cares for each other, etc. and how as a coach that’s really out of his control. His answer was interesting in that he agreed a coach can’t do anything to foster that, but a coach can do a helluva lot to ruin it.

Just great awareness by Granato who seems to understand the psychology involved pin getting the most out of his players. 

[PromoTheRobot]

Dahlin better ✔️

Thompson better ✔️

Skinner better ✔️

Okposo better ✔️