Eichel to Meet with Sabres to Discuss Options regarding Neck Injury Next Week

[SDS]

If you look up ADR cervical x-ray, you can find images like the ones below. The first one is a typical before an after procedure. The one after is what happens when these disks fail and need a revision.

[steveoath]

***** that

[Thorny]

Like others I'm highly skeptical Eichel ever goes through with that surgery 

[Kruppstahl]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Like others I'm highly skeptical Eichel ever goes through with that surgery 

I think it's pretty obvious both parties are using this as the vehicle by which they ultimately part company.

It works for each of them, so both are content to play it out in this manner.

Will be shocked if Eichel plays more games as a Sabre, which will make him easily the biggest disappointment in franchise history; much worse of a bust than Pierre Turgeon, for example.

 

 

 

 

[Doohickie]

52 minutes ago, Radar said:

Elliott Friedman thinks this ultimately will be another teams decision. Other words Jack gets traded and his new team makes decisions.

And when the other team denies the surgery, does he request another trade?

[nfreeman]

So, at this point, what do we know?

- The 12-week rest-and-recovery period is over.

- The Sabres still do not want Eichel to have the surgery.

- KA hasn't spoken with Eichel's camp yet.

- There have been no reports of any positive developments in Eichel's physical condition.

- KA has continued to speak glowingly about the Sabres' young players and the importance of having guys on the team who want to be here.

- The Sabres have won the lottery and thus the ability to take Beniers, a good C prospect who evidently has a very good motor and plays a strong 200-foot game, has been compared to Jonathan Toews and is an American (from Boston, btw) who is playing for a top NCAA program.

- The Sabres have not signed Reinhart to an extension and there haven't been any reports regarding negotiations.

 

What can we deduce from the above?  IMHO, the following are pretty likely:

- The Sabres and Eichel still do not agree on Eichel's treatment, with Eichel still wanting to have the surgery.

- Eichel still wants the surgery because he does not feel like his body in its current condition will allow him to play at the level he is accustomed to. 

- There is a real risk -- maybe 50/50 or higher -- that Eichel is permanently damaged goods and will not regain his MVP-contender-level form of 2 seasons ago, regardless of the medical approach that is taken.

- That risk will be "priced in" to the offers that the Sabres get for Eichel, resulting in a lower yield than would be the case if he were healthy.

- That risk, combined with his impending NMC, the $50MM still owed to him, his desire to GTFO of here and the Sabres' ability to draft Beniers, will drive KA to take the best offer he can get for him this summer, which no one here will be happy with.

 

Not a great outlook, but I don't think there is anything to be gained by kidding ourselves.

 

[Thorny]

6 minutes ago, Kruppstahl said:

I think it's pretty obvious both parties are using this as the vehicle by which they ultimately part company.

It works for each of them, so both are content to play it out in this manner.

Will be shocked if Eichel plays more games as a Sabre, which will make him easily the biggest disappointment in franchise history; much worse of a bust than Pierre Turgeon, for example.

 

 

 

 

This is a good reading of it I think.

Of course, KA and co have also been playing the players who "love the sabres and want to be here" card a lot, too. I wonder if anything else comes out from JE.

Edited June 3, 2021 by Thorny

[nfreeman]

6 minutes ago, Kruppstahl said:

I think it's pretty obvious both parties are using this as the vehicle by which they ultimately part company.

It works for each of them, so both are content to play it out in this manner.

Will be shocked if Eichel plays more games as a Sabre, which will make him easily the biggest disappointment in franchise history; much worse of a bust than Pierre Turgeon, for example.

 

I don't think it works for either of them.  If Eichel is traded because he allegedly wants the surgery, and then doesn't have the surgery once he lands with a new team, he looks like a dishonest DB.  From the Sabres' perspective, the injury, and Eichel's failure to recover, substantially depresses his trade value.

 

[inkman]

31 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Like others I'm highly skeptical Eichel ever goes through with that surgery 

It would be hysterical if he’s traded and says I’m good.  Surgery not needed.  I love LA.  

[Radar]

45 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

And when the other team denies the surgery, does he request another trade?

Or if he doesn't then guess we'd have insight on what this was about.

[Radar]

45 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

So, at this point, what do we know?

- The 12-week rest-and-recovery period is over.

- The Sabres still do not want Eichel to have the surgery.

- KA hasn't spoken with Eichel's camp yet.

- There have been no reports of any positive developments in Eichel's physical condition.

- KA has continued to speak glowingly about the Sabres' young players and the importance of having guys on the team who want to be here.

- The Sabres have won the lottery and thus the ability to take Beniers, a good C prospect who evidently has a very good motor and plays a strong 200-foot game, has been compared to Jonathan Toews and is an American (from Boston, btw) who is playing for a top NCAA program.

- The Sabres have not signed Reinhart to an extension and there haven't been any reports regarding negotiations.

 

What can we deduce from the above?  IMHO, the following are pretty likely:

- The Sabres and Eichel still do not agree on Eichel's treatment, with Eichel still wanting to have the surgery.

- Eichel still wants the surgery because he does not feel like his body in its current condition will allow him to play at the level he is accustomed to. 

- There is a real risk -- maybe 50/50 or higher -- that Eichel is permanently damaged goods and will not regain his MVP-contender-level form of 2 seasons ago, regardless of the medical approach that is taken.

- That risk will be "priced in" to the offers that the Sabres get for Eichel, resulting in a lower yield than would be the case if he were healthy.

- That risk, combined with his impending NMC, the $50MM still owed to him, his desire to GTFO of here and the Sabres' ability to draft Beniers, will drive KA to take the best offer he can get for him this summer, which no one here will be happy with.

 

Not a great outlook, but I don't think there is anything to be gained by kidding ourselves.

 

Fear you're correct. Fans will blame the team and KA for making bad deal.

[thewookie1]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

So, at this point, what do we know?

- The 12-week rest-and-recovery period is over.

- The Sabres still do not want Eichel to have the surgery.

- KA hasn't spoken with Eichel's camp yet.

- There have been no reports of any positive developments in Eichel's physical condition.

- KA has continued to speak glowingly about the Sabres' young players and the importance of having guys on the team who want to be here.

- The Sabres have won the lottery and thus the ability to take Beniers, a good C prospect who evidently has a very good motor and plays a strong 200-foot game, has been compared to Jonathan Toews and is an American (from Boston, btw) who is playing for a top NCAA program.

- The Sabres have not signed Reinhart to an extension and there haven't been any reports regarding negotiations.

 

What can we deduce from the above?  IMHO, the following are pretty likely:

- The Sabres and Eichel still do not agree on Eichel's treatment, with Eichel still wanting to have the surgery.

- Eichel still wants the surgery because he does not feel like his body in its current condition will allow him to play at the level he is accustomed to. 

- There is a real risk -- maybe 50/50 or higher -- that Eichel is permanently damaged goods and will not regain his MVP-contender-level form of 2 seasons ago, regardless of the medical approach that is taken.

- That risk will be "priced in" to the offers that the Sabres get for Eichel, resulting in a lower yield than would be the case if he were healthy.

- That risk, combined with his impending NMC, the $50MM still owed to him, his desire to GTFO of here and the Sabres' ability to draft Beniers, will drive KA to take the best offer he can get for him this summer, which no one here will be happy with.

 

Not a great outlook, but I don't think there is anything to be gained by kidding ourselves.

 

Still, Id rather have an unhappy Eichel than another ROR trade to bash my head in over. If a team wants to trade for Eichel, they'll need to pay the regular high price regardless of his injury situation.

[Doohickie]

4 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Still, Id rather have an unhappy Eichel than another ROR trade to bash my head in over. If a team wants to trade for Eichel, they'll need to pay the regular high price regardless of his injury situation.

I'm not sure I have a preference.  Of course if Eich is traded and wins a Cup I'll be bitter, but at this point I don't know whether he will ever again be able to play at top level.  Given timing of events, KA will need to act (or decide to stand pat) with limited information on Eichel's long term health.

I think standing pat is a real option.  The tradeoff is:

Discounted offers from teams because Eichel is injured right now

vs.

Discounted offeres from teams because they know the pool of trade partners is smaller due to Eichel's NMC next offseason

If you trade him now, you're either moving a bad contract of a player who will never again be at top form or trading a superstar for a bag of pucks.  There's honestly no way to know for sure.

If you wait a year, you might have to accept a double discount of injury plus NMC.

Without knowing what the future holds, I figure what happens, happens.  I don't know all the info Adams is seeing about the injury and the prognosis.  If it's bad he'll move Eichel this summer.  If it's good he may try to keep him.  If it's in between..... well that's probably where we are.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

After looking at the x-ray images posted by @SDS, I think it best for Eich to retire.

Surgery seems very risky and rehabilitation may not get him back to the form he wants to be in.

[Marvin]

I don't think Eichel will care how he is perceived once he is out of Buffalo.  We will know exactly how bad he really is once he reports to his new team: Do they waive the physical or alter their standards for him?

The only way GMKA can salvage a trade is by making parts of it conditional on Eichel's volume of play and performance in the regular season and playoffs.  So if it takes him 2 years to recover, the other team is off the hook for any assets but if he returns to form quickly, the Sabres get extra picks for those 2 years.

As it is now, we might only get a #3C, a prospect, and a pick.  The conditionals seem like the best way to balance the risk and reward.

 

[Taro T]

26 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

I'm not sure I have a preference.  Of course if Eich is traded and wins a Cup I'll be bitter, but at this point I don't know whether he will ever again be able to play at top level.  Given timing of events, KA will need to act (or decide to stand pat) with limited information on Eichel's long term health.

I think standing pat is a real option.  The tradeoff is:

Discounted offers from teams because Eichel is injured right now

vs.

Discounted offeres from teams because they know the pool of trade partners is smaller due to Eichel's NMC next offseason

If you trade him now, you're either moving a bad contract of a player who will never again be at top form or trading a superstar for a bag of pucks.  There's honestly no way to know for sure.

If you wait a year, you might have to accept a double discount of injury plus NMC.

Without knowing what the future holds, I figure what happens, happens.  I don't know all the info Adams is seeing about the injury and the prognosis.  If it's bad he'll move Eichel this summer.  If it's good he may try to keep him.  If it's in between..... well that's probably where we are.

1 item that keeps getting overlooked is that the NMC doesn't kick in until the start of the '22-'23 league year presumably to start on 7/1/22.  IF the team & Eichel can't work out their differences, they still can trade him at the draft after next season with no restrictions on where he can end up.

The NMC only factors in if there aren't suitors for him before 7/1/22. 

[Buffalonill]

24 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

After looking at the x-ray images posted by @SDS, I think it best for Eich to retire.

Surgery seems very risky and rehabilitation may not get him back to the form he wants to be in.

 Hopefully he retires with a different team 

[Randall Flagg]

Even if I am pie in the sky about a potential Eichel return, it's really really easy to not make this another ROR trade. Don't trade Jack for a team's 5th best prospect, a lottery protected pick, and two guys whose own fanbases were writing off the roster the entire previous season because of how far they had fallen off. Just don't be completely and utterly ***** braindead, and you won't have an ROR trade 

[kas23]

5 hours ago, nfreeman said:

I don't think it works for either of them.  If Eichel is traded because he allegedly wants the surgery, and then doesn't have the surgery once he lands with a new team, he looks like a dishonest DB.  From the Sabres' perspective, the injury, and Eichel's failure to recover, substantially depresses his trade value.

 

I think it’s highly likely the new team will deny the surgery as well. It’s not the conservative approach (with rest/rehab being first, then a partial laminectomy being 2nd). They’re not going to want their player to become this surgeon’s “I was the first to implant an artificial disc in a professional athlete” trophy.

 

So, the question becomes, will the receiving team *have* to be on board with this procedure prior to the trade? It’s widely know what Jack wants at this point. If I were the Sabres, I’d get him to medical arbitration ASAP to eliminate that overhang. I doubt they’ll side with Jack. 

[kas23]

3 hours ago, Doohickie said:

If you trade him now, you're either moving a bad contract of a player who will never again be at top form or trading a superstar for a bag of pucks.  There's honestly no way to know for sure.

If you wait a year, you might have to accept a double discount of injury plus NMC.

Without knowing what the future holds, I figure what happens, happens.  I don't know all the info Adams is seeing about the injury and the prognosis.  If it's bad he'll move Eichel this summer.  If it's good he may try to keep him.  If it's in between..... well that's probably where we are.

I think it would be poor judgement for a GM to trade for Jack at this moment, unless this GM (or owner) is completely enamored with him and would take the risk. He’s right in the middle of a injury treatment argument. Wait to see how it plays out first. Worse comes to worse, you see how Eichel responds to training camp or the first few weeks of the season, then you pull the trigger. After all, the centerpiece coming back is not likely going to be a roster player. 

[Thorny]

19 minutes ago, kas23 said:

I think it would be poor judgement for a GM to trade for Jack at this moment, unless this GM (or owner) is completely enamored with him and would take the risk. He’s right in the middle of a injury treatment argument. Wait to see how it plays out first. Worse comes to worse, you see how Eichel responds to training camp or the first few weeks of the season, then you pull the trigger. After all, the centerpiece coming back is not likely going to be a roster player. 

Pull the rug right out from under the season ticket holders, I like it 

[Marvin]

4 minutes ago, kas23 said:

I think it would be poor judgement for a GM to trade for Jack at this moment, unless this GM (or owner) is completely enamored with him and would take the risk. He’s right in the middle of a injury treatment argument. Wait to see how it plays out first. Worse comes to worse, you see how Eichel responds to training camp or the first few weeks of the season, then you pull the trigger. After all, the centerpiece coming back is not likely going to be a roster player. 

IMHO, unless it is known by everyone except the Sabres that Jack is really OK, this is the only sensible action by the 31 other GMs.  The risk for this is so high that I would want nothing to do with the surgery until I see Jack play up to a high standard, and he takes several jarring hits which really put the partial laminectomy under extreme stress, and he comes out of them as if nothing happened, then and only then would I trade for him.

The more I think about it if I assume that we trade Eichel in the off-season, the more I think that we will get a mediocre return with a bunch of conditional futures.  The average quality of the return would be, in terms of players in the Sabres' system, Girgensons, Okposo, and a first with a couple of conditional picks over the next two years, so we had better get centres in this trade.

[Brawndo]

Friedman predicts now that the draft order is known that trade talks will pick up 

[kas23]

3 hours ago, Thorny said:

Pull the rug right out from under the season ticket holders, I like it 

Season ticket holders must be living under a rock if they weren’t aware of the Jack drama going on right now. Plus, I think the team Granato was leading would’ve put more butts in the seats that the Eichel lead team during the beginning of the year. 

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, kas23 said:

Season ticket holders must be living under a rock if they weren’t aware of the Jack drama going on right now. Plus, I think the team Granato was leading would’ve put more butts in the seats that the Eichel lead team during the beginning of the year. 

And why was the Eichel lead team worse?