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spndnchz

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LTS First Liner

LTS

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Hard nosed and skilled.  Multiple cups.  If the Sabres could have signed him in 1998/99 they would have won the cup in 1999, IMO.  Instead he was a loyal soldier who returned the team that drafted him (sort of).

 

He knows the game like few others and would really help move the Sabres in the right direction.

 

I've never been sold on "President of Hockey Operations".  It's a generic title used to pay someone to inject their mindset into the organization.  The concern, for me, is whether that organization needs another mind in the room.  Having too many brains trying to decide the direction is a recipe for disaster.  Look at Toronto right now... they brought together a veritable all-star cast of managerial talent and now Lou is the first one out the door.

 

My concern with bringing in ANYONE is the potential to upset the balance in the room.  Ron Francis has a mindset and unless that mindset is simpatico with everyone else currently running the Sabres it really only raises the potential for in-fighting and confusion at the top.

 

I don't think the Sabres need more people in the front office trying to figure out how to improve things, at least from a hockey operations perspective.  From a business/game presentation perspective I think they need a lot of help, but that's not something Ron Francis is going to do.

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PASabreFan Hall of Famer

PASabreFan

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I've never been sold on "President of Hockey Operations".  It's a generic title used to pay someone to inject their mindset into the organization.  The concern, for me, is whether that organization needs another mind in the room.  Having too many brains trying to decide the direction is a recipe for disaster.  Look at Toronto right now... they brought together a veritable all-star cast of managerial talent and now Lou is the first one out the door.

 

My concern with bringing in ANYONE is the potential to upset the balance in the room.  Ron Francis has a mindset and unless that mindset is simpatico with everyone else currently running the Sabres it really only raises the potential for in-fighting and confusion at the top.

 

I don't think the Sabres need more people in the front office trying to figure out how to improve things, at least from a hockey operations perspective.  From a business/game presentation perspective I think they need a lot of help, but that's not something Ron Francis is going to do.

That seems logical. But when you're starting over, starting with a strong hockey president who isn't just an advisor is a legit way to go.

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LTS First Liner

LTS

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That seems logical. But when you're starting over, starting with a strong hockey president who isn't just an advisor is a legit way to go.

 

So, the President of Hockey Operations reports to the owner.  The GM reports to the President of Hockey Operations.  Who else reports to that position?

 

I'm not even sure what teams have a President of Hockey Operations anymore.  Has any team that has had one ever been successful in such a way where you could say it was because of that position?

 

For every person who has held that title that I can remember, it seems like it was a way to pay some old-timer hockey guy or a former player to be a "consultant" and that the GM still reported to the owner.  I suppose if your owner was extremely hands-off in the organization the President of Hockey Ops might have a reason to exist.  It seems rare though.

 

Without doing research I want to say St. Louis has one... is it John Davidson?  That might be a viable situation there...  I'm going to have to spend some precious working time today researching the situation. :)

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That Aud Smell Hall of Famer

That Aud Smell

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So, the President of Hockey Operations reports to the owner.  The GM reports to the President of Hockey Operations.  Who else reports to that position?

 

I'm not even sure what teams have a President of Hockey Operations anymore.  Has any team that has had one ever been successful in such a way where you could say it was because of that position?

 

For every person who has held that title that I can remember, it seems like it was a way to pay some old-timer hockey guy or a former player to be a "consultant" and that the GM still reported to the owner.  I suppose if your owner was extremely hands-off in the organization the President of Hockey Ops might have a reason to exist.  It seems rare though.

 

Without doing research I want to say St. Louis has one... is it John Davidson?  That might be a viable situation there...  I'm going to have to spend some precious working time today researching the situation. :)

 

Does Cam Neely count? I think his title is just "president," but it's pretty clearly coming from the hockey side of things. And those teams have been pretty damn good for a while.

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Randall Flagg Hall of Famer

Randall Flagg

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Posted (edited)

I've never been sold on "President of Hockey Operations". It's a generic title used to pay someone to inject their mindset into the organization. The concern, for me, is whether that organization needs another mind in the room. Having too many brains trying to decide the direction is a recipe for disaster. Look at Toronto right now... they brought together a veritable all-star cast of managerial talent and now Lou is the first one out the door.

.

WRT Toronto, it needs to be said that this has been the plan since they all came together - Lou would be GM for 3 years, training Dubas, and then would give the job to him. Lou himself said "if Kyle isn't ready to take over in three years then I haven't done my job." There was no dtrama, distress, upheaval, anything negative in this situation.

 

Toronto is evidence that the setup can work - going in three years from a franchise with no direction and a last place finish to a top 3 young core in the game.

Edited by Randall Flagg
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Sabres Fan in NS Hall of Famer

Sabres Fan in NS

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[NEWS] Dudley Named Senior VP of Hockey Operations

 

 

There you go.  The Canes agree that the position is important, but Ronnie Francis wore out his welcome.  Wholesale changes in Carolina.

 

Mr. Pegula ... hire Ron Francis today.  Thank you.

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LTS First Liner

LTS

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Does Cam Neely count? I think his title is just "president," but it's pretty clearly coming from the hockey side of things. And those teams have been pretty damn good for a while.

 

I'm not sure he counts.  He's got the same title as Russ Brandon does for the Sabres.  In addition, the strength of the Bruins, at the moment, lies in players that pre-date Cam Neely joining the organization.  Marchand, Krejci, Bergeron, Rask, and Chara were all there before he joined as VP in 2007.

 

WRT Toronto, it needs to be said that this has been the plan since they all came together - Lou would be GM for 3 years, training Dubas, and then would give the job to him. Lou himself said "if Kyle isn't ready to take over in three years then I haven't done my job." There was no dtrama, distress, upheaval, anything negative in this situation.

 

Toronto is evidence that the setup can work - going in three years from a franchise with no direction and a last place finish to a top 3 young core in the game.

 

So, Toronto does not have a President of Hockey Operations either.  I was wrong even in talking about them.  Shanahan is Russ Brandon.  Lou was the GM.

 

Taking my time now to do the research I said I would, teams that have a President of Hockey Operations:

 

Boston - no 

Buffalo - no

Carolina - Senior VP - just announced, but they had one.

Columbus - John Davidson, also he's an Alternate Governor, but he appears constrained purely to hockey operations as they have a President as well.

Chicago - SVP Hockey Ops  - Al MacIsaac, but Stan Bowman is SVP/GM.  Seemingly peers.

Colorado - no

Anaheim - SVP Hockey ops - David McNab, Bob Murray is EVP and GM.  Not sure how that reporting structure works out...

Arizona - John Chayka is GM and President of Hockey Ops..

Detroit - no

Florida - Dale Tallon, GM and President of Hockey Ops

New Jersey - no

NY Islanders - no

Dallas - no

Minnesota - Brent Flahr, Acting GM/SVP/Hockey Ops

Calgary - Brian Burke is still listed.

Edmonton - Peter Chiarelli - GM and President Hockey Ops

Montreal - Rick Dudley, SVP HOckey Ops... (seems like that might be an open position now)

Ottawa - no

NY Rangers - no

Philthadelphia - no

Smashville - David Poile , GM, Alt. Governor, and President of Hockey ops

St. Louis - Doug Armstrong- GM & President of Hockey Ops

Los Angeles - no, although Luc Robitaille is President and Alt. Governor

San Jose - no

Tampa Bay - no

Toronto - no

Pittsburgh - no

Washington - no

Winnipeg - no

Vancouver - Trevor Linden - President Hockey Operations & Alt. Governor

Vegas - George McPhee - President Hockey Ops, GM, Atl. Governor

 

It would appear that the specific hockey operations title is used in only a few instances, (Carolina, Columbus, Chicago, Anaheim, Calgary?, Montreal?, Vancouver).  In other places it's combined with GM title.

 

Brian Burke has stepped down.. we'll see if Calgary replaces him.  Was it a success?  Calgary has promise and questions.

Montreal seemingly has lost Dudley to Carolina in what appears to be a lateral move.  Will Montreal replace the position?  That said,, I think we can say it wasn't a success in Montreal.

Columbus - Davidson started in this role with the Blues.. moved to Columbus.  He brought in the GM.  it's clear how that structure works.. I wouldn't call them a failure.

Chicago - not enough information on how that relationship works, but they've been successful.  based on his description, he's just a guy who's been around a LONG time and has been rewarded for it.. he was drafted by the Sabres in the 12th round in 1987 (stupid random things I find in researching)

Anaheim - I'm pretty sure Bob Murray has control there.  McNab has 25 years with the Ducks and was an AGM but was promoted.  Sounds like MacIsaac situation.

Vancouver - Other than Davidson this might be the pure definition of the President of HOckey Ops going to a former player.  I wouldn't say it's been bad... I wouldn't say it's been good.  Clearly Benning reports to him.

 

What does all of this mean?

 

Bringing in a President of Hockey Ops for Buffalo would interject someone into the command structure for the team.  The President of Hockey Ops should have control of the GM and since they just hired Botterill it seems like that would be a sure fire way to really cause problems.

 

Bottom line?  When they move Botterill would be the time to consider that position.. they didn't exactly hit a home-run the last time they tried it.

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Randall Flagg Hall of Famer

Randall Flagg

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I'm not sure he counts.  He's got the same title as Russ Brandon does for the Sabres.  In addition, the strength of the Bruins, at the moment, lies in players that pre-date Cam Neely joining the organization.  Marchand, Krejci, Bergeron, Rask, and Chara were all there before he joined as VP in 2007.

 

 

So, Toronto does not have a President of Hockey Operations either.  I was wrong even in talking about them.  Shanahan is Russ Brandon.  Lou was the GM.

 

Taking my time now to do the research I said I would, teams that have a President of Hockey Operations:

 

Boston - no 

Buffalo - no

Carolina - Senior VP - just announced, but they had one.

Columbus - John Davidson, also he's an Alternate Governor, but he appears constrained purely to hockey operations as they have a President as well.

Chicago - SVP Hockey Ops  - Al MacIsaac, but Stan Bowman is SVP/GM.  Seemingly peers.

Colorado - no

Anaheim - SVP Hockey ops - David McNab, Bob Murray is EVP and GM.  Not sure how that reporting structure works out...

Arizona - John Chayka is GM and President of Hockey Ops..

Detroit - no

Florida - Dale Tallon, GM and President of Hockey Ops

New Jersey - no

NY Islanders - no

Dallas - no

Minnesota - Brent Flahr, Acting GM/SVP/Hockey Ops

Calgary - Brian Burke is still listed.

Edmonton - Peter Chiarelli - GM and President Hockey Ops

Montreal - Rick Dudley, SVP HOckey Ops... (seems like that might be an open position now)

Ottawa - no

NY Rangers - no

Philthadelphia - no

Smashville - David Poile , GM, Alt. Governor, and President of Hockey ops

St. Louis - Doug Armstrong- GM & President of Hockey Ops

Los Angeles - no, although Luc Robitaille is President and Alt. Governor

San Jose - no

Tampa Bay - no

Toronto - no

Pittsburgh - no

Washington - no

Winnipeg - no

Vancouver - Trevor Linden - President Hockey Operations & Alt. Governor

Vegas - George McPhee - President Hockey Ops, GM, Atl. Governor

 

It would appear that the specific hockey operations title is used in only a few instances, (Carolina, Columbus, Chicago, Anaheim, Calgary?, Montreal?, Vancouver).  In other places it's combined with GM title.

 

Brian Burke has stepped down.. we'll see if Calgary replaces him.  Was it a success?  Calgary has promise and questions.

Montreal seemingly has lost Dudley to Carolina in what appears to be a lateral move.  Will Montreal replace the position?  That said,, I think we can say it wasn't a success in Montreal.

Columbus - Davidson started in this role with the Blues.. moved to Columbus.  He brought in the GM.  it's clear how that structure works.. I wouldn't call them a failure.

Chicago - not enough information on how that relationship works, but they've been successful.  based on his description, he's just a guy who's been around a LONG time and has been rewarded for it.. he was drafted by the Sabres in the 12th round in 1987 (stupid random things I find in researching)

Anaheim - I'm pretty sure Bob Murray has control there.  McNab has 25 years with the Ducks and was an AGM but was promoted.  Sounds like MacIsaac situation.

Vancouver - Other than Davidson this might be the pure definition of the President of HOckey Ops going to a former player.  I wouldn't say it's been bad... I wouldn't say it's been good.  Clearly Benning reports to him.

 

What does all of this mean?

 

Bringing in a President of Hockey Ops for Buffalo would interject someone into the command structure for the team.  The President of Hockey Ops should have control of the GM and since they just hired Botterill it seems like that would be a sure fire way to really cause problems.

 

Bottom line?  When they move Botterill would be the time to consider that position.. they didn't exactly hit a home-run the last time they tried it.

I feel the same way, it would be quite awkward to do it at this juncture. 

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That Aud Smell Hall of Famer

That Aud Smell

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Good inventory, LTS.

 

In several instances, I see the same person carrying the titles of GM and VP/President of Hockey Ops.

 

My sense is that JBOT is acting as the team's Hockey Ops officer, whether he carries the title or not. He's our greatest, maybe only, hope right now.

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LikeEich Prospect

LikeEich

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see Oilers sign some goalie from the KHL who had crazy numbers...still cannot figure out if that league is really bad or what?

Remains to be seen IMO. Definetly potential there bit never impressed in NA. Didn't realize NYI lost his rights or I would have been picketing to give him a shot.

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inkman Hall of Famer

inkman

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What good does it do to bitch at the Canadian govt about it? What a kook. Do they still use tracking marks on the screen? I thought that ended over a decade ago.
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