Ralph Krueger needs to go - like yesterday.

[PASabreFan]

2 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I agree that best case is to bring in the new czar immediately, but even if that's not possible, I think dumping RK and going with an interim coach for the rest of the year is better than keeping RK.  Every day that RK remains the coach is a day that the Sabres look a little bit less like a real NHL franchise.

Risk: the interim coach turns things around and that glorious summer day turns into a Matt Ellis Interim Tag Removal presser.

[Cheektorado]

My theory is RK uses the "Robert California" school of doubletalk.

"All Life is Sex and All Sex is COMPETITION".

 

[Thorny]

32 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

I chuckled 

 

 

I watched the interview. The guy asked her what’s next after “conquering football, hockey, and tennis”

17 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Risk: the interim coach turns things around and that glorious summer day turns into a Matt Ellis Interim Tag Removal presser.

I like the idea others have put forth of Adams stepping behind the bench and either gaining valuable info he can pass on to the new top guy or use himself if it’s still his position in name 

[Brawndo]

They are not removing Adams or hiring a POHO, the best case scenario would be for them to hire a consultant, same role that Hextall had in LA, or an experienced AGM (Mike Futa, come on down)
 

The difference firing Krueger would make @PASabreFanis the room appears to be a toxic relationship between the Coach and the Players. My evidence is the analytical categories the team were amongst the league best have all dropped to 31st in the games played since the Skinner Triple Scratching. 
 

They need to ask any of the big three are you interested in coaching now. At the end of the year, more positions will be open as will Seattle increasing the competition. 
 

Ellis does not have the experience to be a HC, but moving to an Assistant Position with a new HC even if he is named Interim would be prudent.

We need to see the team without Krueger so decisions can be made on what to do with certain players this offseason 

 

[WildCard]

1 minute ago, Brawndo said:

They are not removing Adams or hiring a POHO, the best case scenario would be for them to hire a consultant, same role that Hextall had in LA, or an experienced AGM (Mike Futa, come on down)
 

The difference firing Krueger would make @PASabreFanis the room appears to be a toxic relationship between the Coach and the Players. My evidence is the analytical categories the team were amongst the league best have all dropped to 31st in the games played since the Skinner Triple Scratching. 
 

They need to ask any of the big three are you interested in coaching now. At the end of the year, more positions will be open as will Seattle increasing the competition. 
 

Ellis does not have the experience to be a HC, but moving to an Assistant Position with a new HC even if he is named Interim would be prudent.

We need to see the team without Krueger so decisions can be made on what to do with certain players this offseason 

Agreed, but do we trust the guy who will be making those decisions? Does firing Ralph even really matter if Adams can't fix the roster? We're just going to end up with a Murray/Byslma or Botterill/Housley situation. 

[Brawndo]

5 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Agreed, but do we trust the guy who will be making those decisions? Does firing Ralph even really matter if Adams can't fix the roster? We're just going to end up with a Murray/Byslma or Botterill/Housley situation. 

From the psyche for the present players yes. Look at the regression of Dahlin and Jokiharju, I need to know if that’s on the player or coaching so I can make decisions moving forward. 
 

14 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I watched the interview. The guy asked her what’s next after “conquering football, hockey, and tennis”

I like the idea others have put forth of Adams stepping behind the bench and either gaining valuable info he can pass on to the new top guy or use himself if it’s still his position in name 

She has conquered hockey, unfortunately her own team was destroyed in the process 

[dudacek]

51 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Let's assume that the Pegulas are indeed looking for help, and that help will come after the season in the form of a POHO or a new GM with president power (think Lou on Long Island). What most people want, whether the title president is there or not. And that implicit in the move is that the Pegulas extract themselves from day to day involvement in hockey affairs. Krueger is gone as coach and maybe has some new role on the business side; Adams is probably retained, but his exact role is TBD by the new boss.

If that's the new starting point some warm, sunny day in June, with the country approaching herd immunity and the pandemic on its knees, what are the smart moves that should precede that glorious day of rebirth?

Is Adams entrusted with trading off high level assets as part of a comprehensive rebuild? No (reality: someone will have to make some important calls on deadline day). If the Pegulas realize how badly they've bungled things, do they trust themselves to do it? No.

Does firing Krueger now serve any real purpose? You can bring in a placeholder coach, but he'll be gone under the new regime come summer. You can try and bring in a name coach, but under the presumptive scenario above, you risk not getting that president/strong GM if his coach is already behind the bench. That person would know that his coach reports to Pegula/s and not him. And firing Krueger risks making the franchise's reputation for being unstable even worse; it permanently tags Eichel et al. as serial coach-killers, likely unfairly. So keeping the coach seems like a reasonable if unpopular option. He has decent ideas about culture, even if this board thinks he doesn't know a deer tick from a hole in a hound (h/t Scotty's grandpappy).

Everyone will hate the idea, but staying in a holding pattern while the engine burns is probably the smartest move. Get this hellish season, which shouldn't have ever happened, over, and go from there. Minimize any more damage. Strike a master stroke, 10 years overdue, and enjoy the fireworks on Independence Day.

Patience? Yuck.

What else ya got that doesn't have a higher risk of making things worse?

 

This makes a lot of sense. Don't see it happening because of first bold below

9 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

They are not removing Adams or hiring a POHO, the best case scenario would be for them to hire a consultant, same role that Hextall had in LA, or an experienced AGM (Mike Futa, come on down)
 

The difference firing Krueger would make @PASabreFanis the room appears to be a toxic relationship between the Coach and the Players. My evidence is the analytical categories the team were amongst the league best have all dropped to 31st in the games played since the Skinner Triple Scratching. 
 

They need to ask any of the big three are you interested in coaching now. At the end of the year, more positions will be open as will Seattle increasing the competition. 
 

Ellis does not have the experience to be a HC, but moving to an Assistant Position with a new HC even if he is named Interim would be prudent.

We need to see the team without Krueger so decisions can be made on what to do with certain players this offseason 

 

 

Second bold is the crux for me and should be for Adams.

Adams also needs to show he is in charge and send a message that he means what he says about accountability and what he deems acceptable.

[LTS]

What I find curious is...

Which players really like Ralph Krueger and have faith in him?  Perhaps that's part of the problem here.  Adams is trying to figure out how to move a coach and the players that might be a bit upset if that coach is removed.  I'd also allow for some suspicion that certain players are not buying into things and that perhaps they believe that's the problem.  If 3 of 5 players on the ice believe in the system the resultant output on the ice will not reflect that.

Either way, it's a mess... a huge mess.  It's certainly turning me off from hockey as a whole these days.

[PASabreFan]

40 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

From the psyche for the present players yes. Look at the regression of Dahlin and Jokiharju, I need to know if that’s on the player or coaching so I can make decisions moving forward.

So remove Krueger to see if Jack plays as well as he did under... Krueger?

[Thorny]

14 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

So remove Krueger to see if Jack plays as well as he did under... Krueger?

We don’t discuss the idea a lot that perhaps Krueger’s system was one that did have its merits in maximizing Jack’s production, for a time - but that experienced coaches were able to break it down quite quickly and find out how to make things a lot tougher on Jack. 

I’m not suggesting it to be the case, but it’s one possible explanation I see for why it could have worked for Jack at first and trailed off. Don’t forget Jack’s worst production stretch of his career  was near the end of last year. 

So in 68 game season, he had a dominant ~half a normal season, under the system. Does that potentially fit a timeline of system exposure? 

Edited March 8, 2021 by Thorny

[North Buffalo]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

We don’t discuss the idea a lot that perhaps Krueger’s system was one that did have its merits in maximizing Jack’s production, for a time - but that experienced coaches were able to break it down quite quickly and find out how to make things a lot tougher on Jack. 

I’m not suggesting it to be the case, but it’s one possible explanation I see for why it could have worked for Jack at first and trailed off. Don’t forget Jack’s worst production stretch of his career  was near the end of last year. 

Hmm... yup hit hmm hard early, put 3 guys on him and dont give him room... make him give up the puck and watch him get inpatient and frustrated... make him work for it.

Any news on Ralph... is he still a coach?

[Brawndo]

19 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

So remove Krueger to see if Jack plays as well as he did under... Krueger?

Nope Dahlin, Jokiharju (both have shown regression in the past two seasons) and to a lesser extent Skinner

[Thorny]

Ralph hasn’t even been coaching in the NHL.

It doesn’t strike me as unlikely at all that he’d understand the merits of some sort of “undeniable” tried-and-true system, and even have elements of success implementing it, yet struggle with any kind of on-the-fly adjustment in game, being not only not an Xs and Os guy but not up to date on the latest dynamics of today’s game. 

When things go wrong he’s basically dumbfounded to find an answer and the team reflects this in their play. 

[Thorny]

Every team in this league has good players. I can’t imagine it’s very helpful to, as a player, when things are going south in game, hear your coach say to you to just “be more confident”. 

Ok, coach. 

Edited March 8, 2021 by Thorny

[LGR4GM]

27 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

So remove Krueger to see if Jack plays as well as he did under... Krueger?

How's he playing this year? 

1.065 = 87.33

1.147 = 94.05

0.857 = 70.27

Those are the last 3 years of ppg for Eichel. So under Krueger in year 1 Eichel went up a whopping 7 points. Yea we should definitely keep Krueger because Jack produced within 1 standard deviation of his norm. Meanwhile EVERY other player has drastically regressed. Great Eichel was slightly better under Krueger in year 1, he is now producing at 17 few points a season than he did under housley in year 2 for Ralph. 

People act like Krueger unlocked some magical new level under Eichel last year... he didn't. Jack had what is probably a slightly above his average year which honestly could just be a result of the player being slightly better as opposed to the coach. Of course this year Eichel is playing at a 17 fewer point pace... because the system is a boring low event dump-in fest of stupidity. 

[Randall Flagg]

I think a lot of our dump-ins this year are because our players are comically bad in transition. This absolutely can go back to coaching, but I don't think he's telling Jack "make sure when you it the red line with speed you rip that puck into the corner" 

 

[That Aud Smell]

2 hours ago, nfreeman said:

I agree with the 2nd post, but as to the 1st, didn't Michael Scott somehow lead the Scranton branch to #2 in sales among Dunder Mifflin branches one year?

Haha - fair deuce. Blind squirrels, and so on?

[dudacek]

I think what has become pretty obvious is that the most common initial fears about Krueger became true: his strengths as a leader were not enough to overcome his weaknesses as a tactician.

I think the way all three of his head coaching seasons have played out reflect that: when other coaches have adjusted, he has been unable to adjust back.

It's probably pertinent that a large chunk of his career was focused on preparing for quick-burst tournament play.

[Marvin]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

I think what has become pretty obvious is that the most common initial fears about Krueger became true: his strengths as a leader were not enough to overcome his weaknesses as a tactician.

I think the way all three of his head coaching seasons have played out reflect that: when other coaches have adjusted, he has been unable to adjust back.

It's probably pertinent that a large chunk of his career was focused on preparing for quick-burst tournament play.

This is the insight I have been trying to work out!  Now I get how the players initially reacted to him relative to Housley and why it has been such a plunge downhill since then.  Thanks, dudacek.  🙂

[Thorny]

3 hours ago, Thorny said:

Ralph hasn’t even been coaching in the NHL.

It doesn’t strike me as unlikely at all that he’d understand the merits of some sort of “undeniable” tried-and-true system, and even have elements of success implementing it, yet struggle with any kind of on-the-fly adjustment in game, being not only not an Xs and Os guy but not up to date on the latest dynamics of today’s game. 

When things go wrong he’s basically dumbfounded to find an answer and the team reflects this in their play. 

 

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

I think what has become pretty obvious is that the most common initial fears about Krueger became true: his strengths as a leader were not enough to overcome his weaknesses as a tactician.

I think the way all three of his head coaching seasons have played out reflect that: when other coaches have adjusted, he has been unable to adjust back.

It's probably pertinent that a large chunk of his career was focused on preparing for quick-burst tournament play.

Which is exactly why I think there’s merit to the idea Krueger’s system could “start strong” last year and fade 

And why Jack having success in it for a time last year doesn’t necessarily mean it was in any way sustainable 

Edited March 8, 2021 by Thorny

[Gatorman0519]

Every day this goes on the message I get as a fan is “losing is ok here, there is no standard of accountability”.  Compare to the actions of Montreal and Calgary’s management. And those teams are not even remotely close to the ineptitude of this organization. 

Edited March 9, 2021 by Gatorman0519

[Torpedo Forecheck]

9 minutes ago, Gatorman0519 said:

Every day this goes on the message I get as a fan is “losing is ok here, there is no standard of accountability”.  Compare to the actions of Montreal and Calgary’s management. And those teams are not even remotely close to the ineptitude of this organization. 

It's a pretty bad look for sure. Also is obvious that no charge will occur, if at all, until after the road trip ends.

[nfreeman]

So he really didn't get canned today?  WTF?

[bunomatic]

1 hour ago, Gatorman0519 said:

Every day this goes on the message I get as a fan is “losing is ok here, there is no standard of accountability”.  Compare to the actions of Montreal and Calgary’s management. And those teams are not even remotely close to the ineptitude of this organization. 

Yeah I’ve been getting that msg for the last 10 years. Loud and clear. So have the players on the team and players from around the league. Its surprising anyone would want to play for the most inept owner in the nhl. Terry and Kim are doing their level best to ***** all over this franchise and they still think because they own the team they have some kind of moral high ground over the fans. Kim said so herself. ‘ we know better than the fans ‘ or some such shite. About all we have left is to not support this sadsack owner and his pathetic attempt at winning a stanley cup.

Edited March 9, 2021 by bunomatic

[Torpedo Forecheck]

Does she know something?