"The Sabres are going to be VERY good"

[mjd1001]

This is where I'm at. The questioning of ROR is ridiculous. He's a complete player and in his case I don't even want to hear arguments about lack of speed. Speed is becoming the buzz word now.

Great post. Thank you.

I want my 'complete' players who are getting paid as much to score 15-20 even strength goals per year... and to not be overrated in the D-zone. O'Reilly is good defensively, but I have seen with my own eyes too many goals scored where he could have stopped them by back-checking a bit harder (he was 1-2 strides behind the eventual goal-scorer.) and YES, I have posted to these forums the very games where that has occurred. Is being 1-2 steps away in that case another symptom of a lack of speed?    I'm not saying O'Reilly is bad...but to say he is not to be questioned is terrible.  You can't argue with the facts that he DOESN'T make it to where he should be in the D-zone and it results in goals...or that over MANY YEARS he is just not a good scorer 5-on-5.  Sure, I want him to get more minutes on the penalty kill than any other center..and to be out there on the PP as well, but he is nothing more than an average player 5 on 5...the numbers prove that...and the eye test shows us he isn't the Selke award winner a lot of people want to think he is.

 

Just as many on this board are tired of hearing about 'speed', I think it is just as crazy to not question O'Reilly as being a great player worth $7.5 per season.

[SwampD]

I want my 'complete' players who are getting paid as much to score 15-20 even strength goals per year... and to not be overrated in the D-zone. O'Reilly is good defensively, but I have seen with my own eyes too many goals scored where he could have stopped them by back-checking a bit harder (he was 1-2 strides behind the eventual goal-scorer.) and YES, I have posted to these forums the very games where that has occurred. Is being 1-2 steps away in that case another symptom of a lack of speed?    I'm not saying O'Reilly is bad...but to say he is not to be questioned is terrible.  You can't argue with the facts that he DOESN'T make it to where he should be in the D-zone and it results in goals...or that over MANY YEARS he is just not a good scorer 5-on-5.  Sure, I want him to get more minutes on the penalty kill than any other center..and to be out there on the PP as well, but he is nothing more than an average player 5 on 5...the numbers prove that...and the eye test shows us he isn't the Selke award winner a lot of people want to think he is.

 

Just as many on this board are tired of hearing about 'speed', I think it is just as crazy to not question O'Reilly as being a great player worth $7.5 per season.

I can.

[Randall Flagg]

I can.

Yeah...O'Reilly's play and positioning in the defensive zone is awesome. 

[spndnchz]

I wish I felt differently but I just have no excitement at all for the Sabres. None. Nada.

[SwampD]

Yeah...O'Reilly's play and positioning in the defensive zone is awesome. 

If he didn't get back on a few shifts over the past few seasons, then he was caught at the end of his shift, something that happens to every single player.

[woods-racer]

I wish I felt differently but I just have no excitement at all for the Sabres. None. Nada.

 

It's your location.

 

Move.

 

At least to a window seat.

[spndnchz]

It's your location.

 

Move.

 

At least to a window seat.

I’m looking out the window. The plane is still in a free fall.

[Doohickie]

I'm going out on a limb but I feel the Reinhart and O'Reilly slow stuff has gone off the rails. Are they fast? Hell no. Are they fast enough to play in today's NHL? Abso-freaking-lutely.

 

But.... narrative something something.

I'm with ink. This whole speed thing is getting silly. I'm way more interested in getting guys who can actually complete a pass than I give a crap about getting guys with speed.

 

That's system as much as individual passing ability.  High achieving teams know where their teammates are so they can make "blind" passes knowing that a teammate is skating into it.  That was kind of the hallmark of the Russian Five on the 1990s Red Wings.  They did a five-man weave all over the ice, not just down low in the offensive zone.

[SDS]

I’m looking out the window. The plane is still in a free fall.

I watched the whole series. It’s called Lost.

[Thorny]

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklund/The-Sabres-are-Going-to-be-VERY-Good-Barzals-Brilliance-New-Standings/1/91382

 

I know Ek doesn't earn respect for his ridiculous rumor site. Understandable.

 

But, before he said it, my thoughts were that we have a team that without their most talented players (Eichel, and now Eichel and Kane) is beating the best in the league. They have been playing better hockey; just inconsistent. Powerplay is clicking. Maybe it just wasn't because we let the coach slip away to Minnesota. This team will be strong, and the roster does not need to be blown up. Yes, tweaks need to be made, but this team is closer than many (including most of the stuff I read on SS) believe.

 

I have suffered through reading topics dedicated to:

 

• Fire Phil Fan Club
• O'Reilly "very likely I'll be traded"
• JBot Do Something Already 1, 2, and 3
• Can this Franchise be saved?

 

Not to mention the themes that carries over from topic to topic:

• Reinhart was a mistake and we should have taken ...
• Bogosian sucks and is only interested in cocaine
• The team is too slow
• Everyone needs to be blown up and we start fresh

 

And if you're not depressed enough, have you ever listened to Schopp and the Bulldog, or any of the callers???

 

I say, F you Joe-bu. I do it my way. I will stay the course. I will keep my season tickets for another year. This team is getting there, and I cannot wait to see them with Jack, Guhle and Middlestadt next year. That's enough speed injected into a team that is already competing with the big dogs.

Good post.

 

One counterpoint - Bogosian sucks.

[PerreaultForever]

I'm not going to argue it, but I don't think the speed thing is wrong. The top teams in the league are also the fastest teams in the league. Just about all of them have mobile D's that transition quickly and generate scoring. This is the league now. Try something different at your own peril.

 

I think they are looking better lately, simple as that. Lots of positive signs. Won't be convinced this is real though until they START A SEASON beating good teams. None of this, really means anything right now. 

[CallawaySabres]

Is this a joke? Seriously, this is totally ridiculous. This team is still a total mess void of true nhl talent.

[SabresFanInRochester]

Despite your mentioning 4 of the threads I started, I’m really not a pessimist. Although the management of this franchise could turn just about anyone into one.

 

I have repeated said look to what Colorado accomplished in one off-season to prove that a quick turnaround is possible. I have pointed to a wave of good young players who could make an positive impact on the Sabres within the next few years including Mittelstadt, Asplund, Guhle, Ullmark, Olofsson, and even Nylander. In fact, I wrote today a detailed list of the prospects (in the prospects thread) I think will help the Sabres and when I thought they’d arrive in Buffalo. have also been very vocal in my support of Wowie and keeping Reinchuk.

 

I’m also thrilled that guys like Erod, Nelson, Antipin and Wilson have stepped up their games with Kane gone and Eichel, McCabe and Bogo injured.

 

I also watch every game, only occassionally fast forwarding to the end.

 

So while it is good to be optimistic above the future, and I am; this team needs more then just tweeks to turn it into a contender. The Sabres are 30th in GF and 27th in GA.

I did not single you out -- it was purely coincidence. Take pleasure in knowing that I did not highlight some of the other threads you started like "Antipin kicked my dog when he was down" or "Which Sabres forward pissed in my Cheerios?"

 

I believe it is a tweak. They need speed and that will come with Guhle and MIddlestadt. That will still leave some slow players on the team but they'll (no pun intended) slowly be phased out. I firmly believe just like with the Bills last year, if the culture is right, the team will buy in and you will see results. They won't be contenders, but they'll be in the mix; similar to your Colorado reference. Maybe I missed it, but did Colorado really do that much in the off season?

 

And I'm not so worried about their team stats. They were horrible for more than half the season: It's going to take a lot to move the needle. I know GF/GA serve as an indication as to where the team is versus their peers, but give the GF a small boost of only .5 and they're in the top half of the league.

 

I am not thrilled with their goaltending this year as it's been too inconsistent. That's something that should be fixed in the off season with one simple call-up.

 

I like that you believe in the youngsters. I hear too many people complain that the cupboard is empty.

I like that everything and everyone isn't 100% doom and gloom around here, we need a balance....but...I still don't see the core of this team as being very good.  The fundamental flaws are just too much to overcome without major changes:

 

-Assuming Reinhart is here next year...3 of your top 6 (in reality and probably in terms of payroll) up front are not just slow..but very slow. The NHL has changed to a skating, transition league. Okposo, O'Reilly, and Reinhart...with them as 3 of your top 6, you can't be a fast team...only hope to be an average skating team overall.

 

-Tied in to my above point...O'Reilly and Okposo are hard to move or can't be moved, and the money you have tied up in the is a LOT for what you are getting.

 

-You need to hit on 3 or more of your prospects into becoming stars. By a 'star' I am talking a consistent 25-30 goal scorer up front or a D-man as good as (or better) than Risto.  Mittelstadt, Pu, Asplund, Baptiste, Nylander, Guhle, Borgen...are we getting 3 "stars" out of that group...and another 2-3 above average players?

 

Maybe they will be better soon...and that will be good...and maybe I'm just negative because I don't just want a "very good" team...I want a "Very good" team that is also one of the fastest and highest scoring in the league...and THAT is what I don't see.

 

Okposo and O'Reilly and Reinhart may be better players than I make them out to be...but to be honest, I'm not a guy who is into the subtle aspects of play...who appreciates board work and positioning.  I am just slightly above a casual fan and I want to see blazing skaters blow by D-Men and end to end action....not so much sound positional hockey.

I think since Christmas, O'Reilly and Reinhart have both shown that they contribute just fine without blazing speed. O'Reilly does too many other things to just say, he's slow, move on. And Reinhart isn't going to win contests, but I think he gets unfairly lumped into that category. I recognize that the overall roster is slow and as a result, the likes of Okposo and Pomminstein jerseys will be had for a significant discount in the near future.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Actually you forgot my favorite thread, "ROR ran over my dog on the way to Tim Horton's," but I digress.

[SabresFanInRochester]

I'm going out on a limb but I feel the Reinhart and O'Reilly slow stuff has gone off the rails. Are they fast? Hell no. Are they fast enough to play in today's NHL? Abso-freaking-lutely. They will be fine. Now we do need to supplement them with speedy wingers. Kyke Okposo isn't helping matters. Middlestadt, Baptiste, CJ Smith, O'Regan, Bailey (probably not a top 6), Nylander and whoever we draft this season (assuming we don't get Dahlin will be a nice infusion of speed and that's not including any free agents or trades.

 

Our team is coming...

:thumbsup: I should have read the very next thread as I almost copied it verbatim. In that case, well said!

[SabresFanInRochester]

Is this a joke? Seriously, this is totally ridiculous. This team is still a total mess void of true nhl talent.

As stated in this thread, the best teams in the league right now are also the fastest. Well, our slow team just took two from Tampa and two from Boston. So, we need to change everything just to be fast.

 

Yes, those games meant nothing. Maybe the other team was looking past the Sabres and were surprised. But for Tampa being fast, Buffalo outplayed them and Buffalo's "slow" speed was shooting gaps through the Tampa D all night.

 

When a player starts playing with confidence, the speed will pick up. I think that's what we are witnessing with Reinhart. Just happy the armchair quarterbacks on SS aren't managing the team because he'd be wearing a different jersey by now.

[pi2000]

As stated in this thread, the best teams in the league right now are also the fastest. Well, our slow team just took two from Tampa and two from Boston. So, we need to change everything just to be fast.

 

Yes, those games meant nothing. Maybe the other team was looking past the Sabres and were surprised. But for Tampa being fast, Buffalo outplayed them and Buffalo's "slow" speed was shooting gaps through the Tampa D all night.

 

When a player starts playing with confidence, the speed will pick up. I think that's what we are witnessing with Reinhart. Just happy the armchair quarterbacks on SS aren't managing the team because he'd be wearing a different jersey by now.

 

I don't subscribe to the idea that they need an entire team of fast players.    That might be what's working now in the NHL, but it's cyclical.    You don't want to be that team that's always chasing the latest trend, never setting the trend.    Just draft all around good hockey players who play with passion and things will get better.    

[SabresFanInRochester]

I don't subscribe to the idea that they need an entire team of fast players.    That might be what's working now in the NHL, but it's cyclical.    You don't want to be that team that's always chasing the latest trend, never setting the trend.    Just draft all around good hockey players who play with passion and things will get better.    

I am with you on this. Tampa will look good until the playoffs start. Then they'll start banging against bigger bodies, and getting worn down or injured. And then factor in the refs letting more clutching and grabbing go in the playoffs. It will be a balanced team that wins it all.

[Doohickie]

That's where bodies like Okposo, Reinhart, ROR and Baptiste will shine.  They're all players that can slog it out in rough play.  Only Baptiste is considered speedy, but he also has the build to handle the physicality.

[matter2003]

That's the way I've felt pretty much all year since the terrible start.  I've said it for some time now:  This season is not about winning.  It's an 82-game training camp for Phil to develop his system, instill his system, and undevelop and redevelop the players that were screwed up by previous coaching (Girgs, McCabe, Risto, even Jack and Reino). 

 

Now that we're in the dog days of the season, the results are showing up.  I kind of like that their recent run of better play has happened without Jack.  Jack is our best player, but even the Oilers are realizing that a single player can't save a franchise, and it's time the rest of the Sabres roster steps up and plays their best so that Jack doesn't have to carry the whole weight.  (From that standpoint, maybe getting Jack really was winning the lottery, because it got XGMTM and DDB out of the organ-EYE-zation quicker).  The team that Jack returns to will be a much better one than it was before Christmas. 

 

I look forward to the continuing emergence of ERod, Baptiste, and whoever else makes the jump from Rochester next season.  It would be nice if we can make a splash in free agency and sign Tavares or something, but I'm more excited about JBot continuing to develop depth and finding diamonds in the rough that will contribute in meaningful ways.  (Well, maybe not diamonds, maybe just opals, but the contribution is what counts.)

 

I don't know how close we really are but I think next season will be different in that good play of this season will actually flow into next season (unlike late season bumps of previous years).  I hope we'll be at least a .500 team in October and pick it up from there.

 

I think what we are seeing without Eichel is the realization from the other players on the team that they can't sit around and wait for Eichel to do something now...they have to make it happen on their own. Honestly I played on a college soccer team similar to this...our best player went down for the year with an injury and we played better without him...it wasn't becaue we were literally a better team without him, we weren't.  Everyone realized they had to work a little harder and do a little more to make up for his loss.  We couldn't just sit around and wait for him to go through 3 or 4 guys and then dish off a pass to a wide open player for a goal...I think this is what we are seeing with the Sabres now...when they get Eichel back if they can continue to play the way they have been without him they can start really figuring some things out...if they decide to go back to "Oh, we will just skate around and let Eichel make something happen" again then we will see more of the same...

 

In short, they aren't a better team without Eichel, but everyone realizes they need to work harder and do more than when they have Eichel.  Basically, Eichel allows them to be lazy to a certain degree...without him they have to work harder. 

[GoPuckYourself]

I don't think the team speed is over exaggerated at all. In HC Phil Housley's system which Jason Botteril and Phil Housley explained in the press conferences upon hiring, his system calls for the defense to quickly move the pucks up the ice where we use team speed to enter the zone. Other than Eichel who is not a speed demon but does posses the necessary wheels but who else fits that description on our roster from our forward group? Reinhart, Okposso, O'Reilly? None of them do and that's why this team is struggling mightily, you hired a coach preaching team speed yet we dont have it. We can live with O'Reilly being not so fast but then that leaves us with Reinhart and Okposso, we need to trade these 2 to the highest bidder and it's not that they aren't talented it's just that they don't fit what were trying top do here imo. 

 

The hope now is that Alexandre Nylander isn't a bust because he fits the mold, he's not only fast but he's skilled as well, same goes for Casey Middlestadt, not a trail blazer like Nylander but very quick up the ice.D Brendan Guhle should also help the team speed on the defensive side. So alot of hope surrounds 2 players who've spent limited time in the NHL and 1 player who has yet the touch the NHL ice but hope none the less.

[Radar]

Is this a joke? Seriously, this is totally ridiculous. This team is still a total mess void of true nhl talent.

Thanks. Can you play?

[Weave]

Repeated ad nauseum....

 

It is NOT foot speed, it is pace of play. ROR and Sam and O’Poso are very good in this league when a fast pace is maintained. They don’t need to be fast, they need to be constantly in motion and making quick decisions.

[Doctor of Philhousley]

Eichel is literally one of the fastest skaters in the league. Does that not qualify as a speed demon?

[etiennep99]

Repeated ad nauseum....

 

It is NOT foot speed, it is pace of play. ROR and Sam and O’Poso are very good in this league when a fast pace is maintained. They don’t need to be fast, they need to be constantly in motion and making quick decisions.

 

 

Bing Bing Bing Winner!

 

<begin hockey sacrilege>

 

I've been watching old 70's Canada Cup.  Today's Sabres would KILL those teams.  They had no "CLOSING SPEED", they couldn't forecheck, they couldn't backcheck, they COULDN'T PASS at all.  And of course, our giant goal-tenders would kill even the best of the midget stand-up goalies.  Perreault was always good for a few big rushes and even a goal or assist, but he himself couldn't forecheck, backcheck, nor win ANY face-offs, and he floated.  I think that in today's game, Perreault would drive a coach up a wall.

 

And oh my, why did they invite Bobby Orr in 1976? He couldn't skate anymore!  His best move was to stand behind his net and wait for Perreault to swing by to rush the puck himself.

...By the 1980's and the Gretzky era we start to see some real hockey.  The Oiler's were a revelation in the 80's because they had team speed and could pass, something that the 1970's teams didn't have a lot of.  They scored in bunches. The 1970's teams had midget goalies but couldn't score like the Oilers because most of the 1970's teams just plain sucked.

 

[N.B. The Buffalo Sabres 1976 game against the Wings was amazing!]

 

</end hockey sacrilege>