Duchene to Sabres?

[GASabresIUFAN]

The other thing is that the Sabres aren't yet a playoff team. This is the kind of deal you make when you are one or two pieces from contending for a Cup.

 

Maybe re-visit at the deadline if we are in the playoffs yet are still short of production on the LW.

[7+6=13]

Remember, Kane outscored him (by 10 goals and 2 total points) last season, having played 7 less games. I know CO was awful, but still, in 7 less games.

 

So I don't even think Kane, straight-up, would be worth it. + McCabe? Get outahere

 

I'd look beyond just last year.  Duchene is the better player. 

 

5 out of Kane's 8 years in the league he's had more goals than assists.  That's hard to do and I don't mean that in a good way.  He just has to contribute more to others scoring but I don't see it happening.  If he was part of the deal, it's a no brainer, and I like Kane.

[Thorny]

Ask yourself if this is something TM would do? If yes, then you don't do it.

The price for Duchene would have to include either Nylander and Mittelstadt. This is a price we shouldn't be willing to pay. We need value players to offset the high cost of TM's big contracts (Moulson, Gorges, Bogo, KO, ROR, Kane and Risto) and the future deals for Reinhart and Eichel.

Having a constant inflow of cheap, young talent is essential for long-term success. Pulling a TM and moving out out elite young talent to get another misplaced center doesn't seem like a smart move.

Yup.

[Weave]

Brand new GM, brand new HC, and #2, #2, #8, #8 picks in the last 4 years, and we're a win now team?

 

 

no we aren't. Win now teams are teams like Washington where their star player is in his mid to late 20's and you are only going to get peak production from them for another 3-5 years so you have to take your shot. Eichel hasn't even reached his peak. We are a rebuilding team. We should take a good step this season that we would have taken last year if Dan Bylsma didn't suck and Jack didn't get Zemgused.

 

In Washington's example, their stars are 29, 31, and thus entering years where their production may start to drop. They are in win now. ROR is only 25 and Jack is 20.  We aren't in win now mode. 

 

We are win now like Chicago was after they collected their core.  And Pittsburgh.  And Anaheim was.  If we are going to ever have a decade of dominance, it has to start while the kids are still shaving every 3 days.

[sabresparaavida]

Only if Sakic likes Bogo :D

We can trade Bogo, Moulson, and Gorges for Duchene. 3 is better than 1 right? Edited August 11, 2017 by Sabresforlife

[DaveSnuggerud]

Dutchy is a soft, underachieving player.  He was always in Roy's doghouse.  I cannot fathom a situation where he makes sense for the Sabres to acquire.  Even if he were free, I'd have to think about it for a minute.   

[inkman]

What's the shelf life on EXGMTM bashing? Jackholes still bring up Briere and Drury so I need to wait a decade? Gonna need a lot of booze for this.

[Thorny]

We are win now like Chicago was after they collected their core.  And Pittsburgh.  And Anaheim was.  If we are going to ever have a decade of dominance, it has to start while the kids are still shaving every 3 days.

Yes. Some of the best playoff beards are the patchy, near-non-existent ones.

[GASabresIUFAN]

What's the shelf life on EXGMTM bashing? Jackholes still bring up Briere and Drury so I need to wait a decade? Gonna need a lot of booze for this.

Same as a Twinkie!

[TrueBlueGED]

Ask yourself if this is something TM would do? If yes, then you don't do it.

 

The price for Duchene would have to include either Nylander and Mittelstadt. This is a price we shouldn't be willing to pay. We need value players to offset the high cost of TM's big contracts (Moulson, Gorges, Bogo, KO, ROR, Kane and Risto) and the future deals for Reinhart and Eichel.

 

Having a constant inflow of cheap, young talent is essential for long-term success. Pulling a TM and moving out out elite young talent to get another misplaced center doesn't seem like a smart move.

 

I, for one, am really mad we have O'Reilly instead of Zadorov, Compher, and a 2nd round pick.

[thewookie1]

I, for one, am really mad we have O'Reilly instead of Zadorov, Compher, and a 2nd round pick.

Then you are a fool

[nfreeman]

Then you are a fool

 

He was joking you hoser.

 

 

Separately:  the concept of Nylander and Bogo for Duchene is intriguing.  I don't think Colorado would do it in a million years, but I think I probably would.

[TrueBlueGED]

Then you are a fool

 

He was joking you hoser.

 

 

Separately:  the concept of Nylander and Bogo for Duchene is intriguing.  I don't think Colorado would do it in a million years, but I think I probably would.

 

I'm a huge Nylander fan and not a big Duchene fan, but I do this too. Getting out from under Bogo's contract would be a gift.

[Thorny]

I, for one, am really mad we have O'Reilly instead of Zadorov, Compher, and a 2nd round pick.

Will go down as one of the great trades of the last few decades.

[GASabresIUFAN]

I, for one, am really mad we have O'Reilly instead of Zadorov, Compher, and a 2nd round pick.

Ancient history.  A deal done when he had a million prospects and unlimited cap space.  

 

It was those deals and their related contracts that destroyed the team last year.  

That deal and related contract added 7.5 mill to the cap.  

TM then added Gorges 3.9, Moulson 5.0, Franson, 3.325, Bogo 5.142, Okposo 6, Kulikov 4.333, Lehner 2.225, Gionta 4.25 Kane 5.25 = 10 players for 46.925 while giving up

1st rd picks Myers, Stafford, Armia, Pysyk, Zadorov, Grigorenko; High 2nd rd picks Lemieux and Compher,  2015 1st rd picks 21 & 25, 2014 2nd rd pick 60, 2015 2nd rd picks 31 & 43 and 2nd rd picks in 2016 2nd 45.

 

So lets celebrate the one deal that worked out great for us by a GM who spent us into cap hell and destroyed much of the high end depth in the prospect pool in vain attempt to accelerate a rebuild.  Yeah!  

 

Now let's rinse and repeat and instead of using mid level 1st rd prospects like Zadorov, Grigorenko, and Armia, lets use top 10 prospects like Mittelstadt and Nylander plus our only legit D prospect in Guhle top add another overpaid forward from a losing franchise to add another big cap hit in the year we need cap space to sign our top 2 young forwards Eichel and Reinhart.   That makes perfect sense.  

 

Remember this is a Ek rumor and should be treated as such.  The only reason this rumors is even out there is we have cap space to take on his deal this season and we have high end prospects that Sakic would love steal.  However, Jbot has already shown that he is smarter than that.

 

I have a deal for Sakic.  Duchene for Kane, Nelson, Bailey, and a 2nd in 2018.   

 

Here is an alternate deal.  Duchene for Bogo, Larsson/Girgensons, Bailey/Baptiste and a 2nd in 2018.  We then sign Franson to a 1 yr deal to add back depth.  Colorado gets 3 roster players and we clear up a long-term dead weight contract, improve our center or LW position and clear up the logjam with the AAAA wingers.  (or they can have Nelson instead of one of the young forwards).  Right now Colorado only has 3 NHL D under contract since they have yet to sign Zadorov.

 

The roster would look something like this

Duchene ROR Reinhart

Kane Eichel Okposo

Pouliot Girgensons Pominville

Moulson Josefson Fasching

 

Scandella Risto

McCabe Antipin

Beaulieu Franson

Gorges 

 

or

Kane Eichel Okposo

Pouliot ROR Reinhart

Girgensons Duchene Pominville

Moulson Josefson Fasching

Edited August 11, 2017 by GASabresFan

[sabresparaavida]

^^^^^^I really like the second idea, but don't care for the first. We could also move Guhle up to take Bogo's spot. The only problem with that roster is the 4th line. it is TERRIBLE.

My preffered lineup would probably look like this:

Pouliout-Eichell-Okposo

Duchene-ROR-Babtiste?

Kane-Reinhart-Pomminstein

Moulson-Girgesons-Fasching

Edited August 11, 2017 by Sabresforlife

[sabresparaavida]

If Duchene were traded and then re-signed, how much money would you think he would get?

[LGR4GM]

7 mil, maybe a little more or less but more than I think he's worth

Edited August 11, 2017 by LGR4GM

[sabresparaavida]

Do you think we would be able to resign him and Kane if we no longer had Bogo?

[North Buffalo]

Season cant start soon enough. Sign Eichel... lets see what they are... including Nylander then make some decisions in February.

[Marions Piazza]

I'm going out on a limb and i am going to say, Duchene is a bit overrated, not much, but a bit.  Not too mention that Duchene and RoR on the same team didn't work out so well personality wise as i believe one or both admitted to.  Not saying that they haven't matured since then, but, why take the risk and mortgage our future for a guy that has only eclipsed 60pts twice since 2009 and may not get along with one of the other stars on the team?

[WildCard]

We are win now like Chicago was after they collected their core.  And Pittsburgh.  And Anaheim was.  If we are going to ever have a decade of dominance, it has to start while the kids are still shaving every 3 days.

None of those teams had the turmoil we had after we assembled our core. Last year was supposed to be the baby step into the playoffs, and this year the 'win now' year. Now? That's all been delayed a full year

 

I, for one, am really mad we have O'Reilly instead of Zadorov, Compher, and a 2nd round pick.

Was just gonna say this. TM may have been a lot of things, but saying everything he did was terrible is just wrong

 

Sarcasm_Detector_exploding.png

 

I'm a huge Nylander fan and not a big Duchene fan, but I do this too. Getting out from under Bogo's contract would be a gift.

Really?

 

Ancient history.  A deal done when he had a million prospects and unlimited cap space.  

 

It was those deals and their related contracts that destroyed the team last year.  

That deal and related contract added 7.5 mill to the cap.  

TM then added Gorges 3.9, Moulson 5.0, Franson, 3.325, Bogo 5.142, Okposo 6, Kulikov 4.333, Lehner 2.225, Gionta 4.25 Kane 5.25 = 10 players for 46.925 while giving up

1st rd picks Myers, Stafford, Armia, Pysyk, Zadorov, Grigorenko; High 2nd rd picks Lemieux and Compher,  2015 1st rd picks 21 & 25, 2014 2nd rd pick 60, 2015 2nd rd picks 31 & 43 and 2nd rd picks in 2016 2nd 45.

 

So lets celebrate the one deal that worked out great for us by a GM who spent us into cap hell and destroyed much of the high end depth in the prospect pool in vain attempt to accelerate a rebuild.  Yeah!  

 

Now let's rinse and repeat and instead of using mid level 1st rd prospects like Zadorov, Grigorenko, and Armia, lets use top 10 prospects like Mittelstadt and Nylander plus our only legit D prospect in Guhle top add another overpaid forward from a losing franchise to add another big cap hit in the year we need cap space to sign our top 2 young forwards Eichel and Reinhart.   That makes perfect sense.  

 

Remember this is a Ek rumor and should be treated as such.  The only reason this rumors is even out there is we have cap space to take on his deal this season and we have high end prospects that Sakic would love steal.  However, Jbot has already shown that he is smarter than that.

 

I have a deal for Sakic.  Duchene for Kane, Nelson, Bailey, and a 2nd in 2018.   

 

Here is an alternate deal.  Duchene for Bogo, Larsson/Girgensons, Bailey/Baptiste and a 2nd in 2018.  We then sign Franson to a 1 yr deal to add back depth.  Colorado gets 3 roster players and we clear up a long-term dead weight contract, improve our center or LW position and clear up the logjam with the AAAA wingers.  (or they can have Nelson instead of one of the young forwards).  Right now Colorado only has 3 NHL D under contract since they have yet to sign Zadorov.

 

The roster would look something like this

Duchene ROR Reinhart

Kane Eichel Okposo

Pouliot Girgensons Pominville

Moulson Josefson Fasching

 

Scandella Risto

McCabe Antipin

Beaulieu Franson

Gorges 

 

or

Kane Eichel Okposo

Pouliot ROR Reinhart

Girgensons Duchene Pominville

Moulson Josefson Fasching

Ancient history? It was two years ago, and Colorado is still reeling from it.

 

Also, it was not those moves that destroyed the team. It was a coach, and if anything it was a lack of moves that didn't help the team. 

[dudacek]

Sabres are not in cap hell. Or if they are, then so is 3/4 of the NHL.

 

It's been pretty well documented Murray acquired nearly as many picks and prospects as he gave up, so I won't rehash that,

 

But let's consider the players we gave up and how they fit into the Sabres organization today and the future.

* Zadorov has a heckuva skill set and a lot of charisma, but remains a very much boom or bust, dare I say Bogo-esque player who would be battling with Beaulieu, Bogosian and Antipin for bottom three minutes this season.

* Pysyk is a solid, affordable 4/5 who is more reliable, but fits in with the group above.

* Armia and Lemieux would be in the mix with Bailey, Baptiste, Fasching, Nylander etc. for the two open slots on the wing this year. Neither is the answer long-term as a top-six.

* Grigorenko has washed out already and is completely redundant in an organization with Eichel, Reinhart, Mittelstadt and ROR

* Compher is a bottom sixer, who would be desperately trying to prove he is better than Larsson, Girgensons, Pu and Asplund.

* The picks could mean a few more Asplunds and Guhles to cross our fingers with and hope they are at least as good as Pysyk and Armia.

 

Maybe XGMTM looked at these guys for what they were, rather than what he hoped they could be, realized he had more picks and prospects than he would ever need and tried to use his wealth of middling lottery tickets and potentially adequate NHLers to add some impact talent.

 

I would much rather have the first-line centre, 25-goal power forward, and young starting goalie we acquired than the lot we gave up.

Edited August 11, 2017 by dudacek

[Lanny]

It's been pretty well documented Murray acquired nearly as many picks and prospects as he gave up, so I won't rehash that,

They drafted 25 guys over the 3 years GMTM was here. 

1st rd picks Myers, Stafford, Armia, Pysyk, Zadorov, Grigorenko; High 2nd rd picks Lemieux and Compher,  2015 1st rd picks 21 & 25, 2014 2nd rd pick 60, 2015 2nd rd picks 31 & 43 and 2nd rd picks in 2016 2nd 45.

I don't think i'd trade O'Reilly for that entire lot

[GASabresIUFAN]

Sabres are not in cap hell. Or if they are, then so is 3/4 of the NHL.

It's been pretty well documented Murray acquired nearly as many picks and prospects as he gave up, so I won't rehash that.

This is simply not true. TM traded away 6 prospects drafted in the 1st 3 rounds including 3 former 1st rd picks and only replaced them with 2 prospects in former 2nd rd pick Carrier and 4th rd pick Fasching. He was also a net -3 top 3 rd draft picks, including 1 1st, 1 2nd and 1 3rd. That's a net loss of 7 prospects from our organization or potentially 1/3 of a roster.

 

We can argue whether the deals were smart or successful individually, but there is no argument that the overall strategy of moving out young assets to acquire highly compensated young vets was an abysmal failure and was a key factor in his dismissal. You can't spend to the cap (and over spend in real $ to 80 mill), have the 5th worst record in the league and call TM's strategy a success. Also, while we are not in the cap hell of Det or Chi, we are struggling going forward trying to fix the mess TM created because of the weight of the contracts TM acquired or gave, specifcally Gorges, Bogo, and Moulson.