WildCard Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 Wasn't that when he was in Winnipeg though? Maybe he just hated that area or didn't like his teammates which is understandable given the track suit antics/animosity with Byfuglien. Despite that, he signed a 6 year deal with them anyway so I think the whole Vancouver angle is overblown. If Vancouver would have offered him one he would have went there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 (edited) As for Duchene, I would pass on him. He'll probably be expecting a big contract with a raise in 2 years and I'd rather not give a 28 year old a multi-year deal for big money. If Vancouver would have offered him one he would have went there I don't dispute that. Just because he was eager to jump ship from Winnipeg 5 or 6 years ago in order to return to Vancouver doesn't necessarily mean he's chomping at the bit to go back there now. A lot can change in 5 years and the fact that he's not in the same city or with the same team that he was trying to escape could mean that he's happy in his current situation. Edited September 14, 2017 by Drunkard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallawaySabres Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 Here's the issue with trading McCabe for Duchene. In 1-2 years the Sabres have the very real possibility of Mittelstadt, Nylander, Asplund, and an unnamed prospect being a top 6 player. The Sabres for TOP 6 defenders, not top 4 just top 6 have Guhle waiting in the wings, and that is it. There is almost no depth behind him. Trading away a 23yr old McCabe for a 26yr old Duchene when I can replace Duchene's production within in 2 years with prospects is a terrible way to build a team. We barely have defensive depth and trading any of it away is foolhardy considering the prospects we currently have. My belief as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 As for Duchene, I would pass on him. He'll probably be expecting a big contract with a raise in 2 years and I'd rather not give a 28 year old a multi-year deal for big money. I don't dispute that. Just because he was eager to jump ship from Winnipeg 5 or 6 years ago in order to return to Vancouver doesn't necessarily mean he's chomping at the bit to go back there now. A lot can change in 5 years and the fact that he's not in the same city or with the same team that he was trying to escape could mean that he's happy in his current situation. Very fair points. Vancouver 6 years ago was what? In the Cup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 Very fair points. Vancouver 6 years ago was what? In the Cup? They were in the Finals back in 2011 and Wikipedia said Kane signed his extension with Winnipeg on September 15, 2012 so it was right after their cup run and before the next season started (2012-2013). I'm guessing Vancouver either wasn't interested (doubtful), couldn't afford him under the cap (possible), or was too afraid the break the unwritten rule by extending an offer sheet (possible). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 They were in the Finals back in 2011 and Wikipedia said Kane signed his extension with Winnipeg on September 15, 2012 so it was right after their cup run and before the next season started (2012-2013). I'm guessing Vancouver either wasn't interested (doubtful), couldn't afford him under the cap (possible), or was too afraid the break the unwritten rule by extending an offer sheet (possible). The report was the wanted to offer Benn one instead, but couldn't figure out the logistics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Jones Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 The key is that Reinhart shouldn't be a winger. Yup. This has been my mantra since before I joined this board and I'm sticking to it. Too many centers on this team, not enough true wingers. If you trade Sam for a winger, Girgensens can excel as 3rd line center rather than struggling as a winger. You keep Sam and he will be unhappy on the 3rd line and there will be issues - even though 3rd line center is his best fit on this team. Unless Jack can be a standout as a winger (which I think isn't the answer myself) we need to find true wingers for him and we have to do it fast, so he can grow with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korab rules Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 Yup. This has been my mantra since before I joined this board and I'm sticking to it. Too many centers on this team, not enough true wingers. If you trade Sam for a winger, Girgensens can excel as 3rd line center rather than struggling as a winger. You keep Sam and he will be unhappy on the 3rd line and there will be issues - even though 3rd line center is his best fit on this team. Unless Jack can be a standout as a winger (which I think isn't the answer myself) we need to find true wingers for him and we have to do it fast, so he can grow with them. too many centers? we need to trade them for wingers? Tell me what the difference is between a center and a winger after the faceoff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 Yup. This has been my mantra since before I joined this board and I'm sticking to it. Too many centers on this team, not enough true wingers. If you trade Sam for a winger, Girgensens can excel as 3rd line center rather than struggling as a winger. You keep Sam and he will be unhappy on the 3rd line and there will be issues - even though 3rd line center is his best fit on this team. Unless Jack can be a standout as a winger (which I think isn't the answer myself) we need to find true wingers for him and we have to do it fast, so he can grow with them.I stopped agreeing after you suggest Sam wouldn't be happy as the 3rd line winger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Jones Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 The point is different players play better in different spots with different roles. You can't function with 3 guys instinctively always trying to do the same things. You need compliments based on the chemistry and structure of your line. 3rd line center not winger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 The point is different players play better in different spots with different roles. You can't function with 3 guys instinctively always trying to do the same things. You need compliments based on the chemistry and structure of your line. 3rd line center not winger. Zemgus hasn't been a center in years and was mediocre when he was one. No reason to trade Sam so Zemgus can be a center. Centers can play wing, wingers can't be centers. All bourbon is whiskey but not all whiskey is bourbon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Jones Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 You can say that in theory, but it doesn't always work that way. Girgensen's best season was when he was a center. he showed promise in that role, then Bylsma ruined him. I'm fine with Reinhart as 3rd line center, I don't think he will be fine with that assignment. He will be disgruntled and see it as a demotion. If not, fine, but I don't see him as a top line winger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 (edited) You can say that in theory, but it doesn't always work that way. Girgensen's best season was when he was a center. he showed promise in that role, then Bylsma ruined him. I'm fine with Reinhart as 3rd line center, I don't think he will be fine with that assignment. He will be disgruntled and see it as a demotion. If not, fine, but I don't see him as a top line winger.That's because be played 22 mins a night instead of 14. Had nothing to do with being a center. Sam Reinhart's attitude and being disgruntled have rarely been uttered in the same sentence. He's really even keeled and he'll get top PP time anyways. Edited September 14, 2017 by LGR4GM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korab rules Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 The point is different players play better in different spots with different roles. You can't function with 3 guys instinctively always trying to do the same things. You need compliments based on the chemistry and structure of your line. 3rd line center not winger. That's not the way it works at all. Zemgus hasn't been a center in years and was mediocre when he was one. No reason to trade Sam so Zemgus can be a center. Centers can play wing, wingers can't be centers. All bourbon is whiskey but not all whiskey is bourbon. thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Jones Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 Maybe part of it but I also think for him it had a little to do with the more disciplined nature of being a winger. He's a bit of a wildcard and free spirit so to speak and plays better here there and everywhere rather than up and down the wing. He needs that freedom to roam. and for spelunker, spare me the condescension and enlighten me on "how it works" cause I don't know nuttin' about this fancy hockey game............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 Centers have less freedom then wingers because of their defensive responsibilities though, right? I just think you like zemgus more than Reinhart. Reinhart is better than Zemgus this far. The smart thing to do is give Reinhart better oppurtunities not sacrifice him so Zemgus can be a 3rd line center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Jones Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 Well it depends on your system of course but not if you play a more aggressive game like Housley promises and use them to forecheck and jump the gap. Also, in a D capacity it is easier to have them shadow a star player as a center, if that's how you want to play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 (edited) Well it depends on your system of course but not if you play a more aggressive game like Housley promises and use them to forecheck and jump the gap.Reinhart is still better. Just because zemgus skates faster doesn't mean he can make the snap decisions needed. Reinhart can, we know this because we see him do it already. Also on the forecheck you send in Bailey or Kane or Zemgus, your centre shouldn't be the primary. Edited September 14, 2017 by LGR4GM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korab rules Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 (edited) Maybe part of it but I also think for him it had a little to do with the more disciplined nature of being a winger. He's a bit of a wildcard and free spirit so to speak and plays better here there and everywhere rather than up and down the wing. He needs that freedom to roam. and for spelunker, spare me the condescension and enlighten me on "how it works" cause I don't know nuttin' about this fancy hockey game............ Players in the NHL aren't "free spirits who play here and everywhere" no one other than Ovi has the "freedom to roam" where they want. Nor does a left wing play the left side of the ice, a right wing play the right side of the ice and a center the center. Forward don't play a position at even strength after the faceoff, they are generally F1, F2 or F3 depending on who gets there first. In a more settled situation they will revert to a traditional positional role, but it doesn't stay that way. Edited September 14, 2017 by korab rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Jones Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 Reinhart is still better. Just because zemgus skates faster doesn't mean he can make the snap decisions needed. Reinhart can, we know this because we see him do it already. Also on the forecheck you send in Bailey or Kane or Zemgus, your centre shouldn't be the primary. I think the speed will matter but we can leave that to be shown true as the season moves on. I'll reiterate, Reinhart as 3rd line center is fine, I just don't think HE sees himself as a 3rd line player so that'll be a problem. We have differences in philosophy and how we think they should play, let's see what Housley does and who fits better with it. It won't be anything like Bylsma's methods so some players that were bad will be good and some that were decent will struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 We have a difference in philosophy over what a 3rd line is too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 Liger, you need to give your head a shake. Don't you remember how much worse we were when Vanek and Roy were grumbling about being stuck on the third line and Mike Grier and Jochen Hecht were playing way above their heads on lines one and two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 Now do you believe, now do you believe. These guys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 Liger, you need to give your head a shake. Don't you remember how much worse we were when Vanek and Roy were grumbling about being stuck on the third line and Mike Grier and Jochen Hecht were playing way above their heads on lines one and two? It's a damn shame we don't have the depth at wing to pull that off again.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erickompositör72 Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 (edited) I just don't think HE sees himself as a 3rd line player so that'll be a problem. I agree with this as well, and don't see why many here are refusing to see the validity. 3rd line is quite relevant when it comes to TOI, and Reinhart - 2nd overall pick - will probably want more; a "larger role." Isn't that why ROR was happy to leave the Avs? Don't you remember how much worse we were when Vanek and Roy were grumbling about being stuck on the third line and Mike Grier and Jochen Hecht were playing way above their heads on lines one and two? It was Vanek's 2nd season in the NHL, Jochen Hecht was one of the best/reliable 2-way centers we've ever had. Let's not compare our current roster to the one that won the President's trophy. Edited September 14, 2017 by ericcomposer72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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