Let the Fire Bylsma Watch begin

[I-90 W]

I agree with you, but only in so far to say that the only garbage in PA's awesome post was saying that it (I assume the tank) was certainly not noble.

 

Worst decision in Sabres history was the recent tank.

Wrong. The result of the tank are Sam and Jack. Nothing unethical about putting out an inferior product to a fanbase that knows full well what and how a tank rebuild works. Every player on the ice was trying nothing unethical or wrong about it. If you would rather have Pomminstein, Vanek, Miller etc then to each their own. They couldn't get past Boston or Philly in the first round and that was over five years ago.

Edited March 25, 2017 by Saratoga Sabres Fan

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Wrong. The result of the tank are Sam and Jack. Nothing unethical about putting out an inferior product to a fanbase that knows full well what and how a tank rebuild works. Every player on the ice was trying nothing unethical or wrong about it. If you would rather have Pomminstein, Vanek, Miller etc then to each their own. They couldn't get past Boston or Philly in the first round and that was over five years ago.

 

A difference of opinion does not mean that one is right and the other is wrong.

 

I disagree about the ethics of the tank, but I never ever said the pro-tankers were not entitled to their opinion.  There is more than one way to build / rebuild a hockey team.  Was it wrong the way Punch built it back in the early to mid-seventies?

 

Please don't put words in my mouth concerning the failed core of a bygone era.

[PASabreFan]

Wrong. The result of the tank are Sam and Jack. Nothing unethical about putting out an inferior product to a fanbase that knows full well what and how a tank rebuild works. Every player on the ice was trying nothing unethical or wrong about it. If you would rather have Pomminstein, Vanek, Miller etc then to each their own. They couldn't get past Boston or Philly in the first round and that was over five years ago.

That's a false choice. It wasn't maintain Status Quo or Tank. There are steps in between. The cupboard was not bare when Terry took over. It would have been a nice spot for a new GM and coach to step into. There might have been a down year or two after that, but no way six years later would we still be bottom-feeders. Imlach had the Sabres from newborns to the finals in five years. Muckler rebuilt on the fly in the mid 90s. Regier got them from down and out to as close to a Cup as this franchise ever got in three or for years. And at no point did it require icing a historically bad team or forcing the fans to root against their team. Eichel's a nice young player, but he wasn't worth it.

[I-90 W]

That's a false choice. It wasn't maintain Status Quo or Tank. There are steps in between. The cupboard was not bare when Terry took over. It would have been a nice spot for a new GM and coach to step into. There might have been a down year or two after that, but no way six years later would we still be bottom-feeders. Imlach had the Sabres from newborns to the finals in five years. Muckler rebuilt on the fly in the mid 90s. Regier got them from down and out to as close to a Cup as this franchise ever got in three or for years. And at no point did it require icing a historically bad team or forcing the fans to root against their team. Eichel's a nice young player, but he wasn't worth it.

I'm really not sure how rebuilding through free agency at the time would have set us up in a better position, long term. If we had less injuries and a better coach, we would have made the playoffs this year. Our core wasn't going to get us anywhere in the playoffs at the time. Reinhart and Eichel were absolutely worth it, imo. 

A difference of opinion does not mean that one is right and the other is wrong.

 

I disagree about the ethics of the tank, but I never ever said the pro-tankers were not entitled to their opinion.  There is more than one way to build / rebuild a hockey team.  Was it wrong the way Punch built it back in the early to mid-seventies?

 

Please don't put words in my mouth concerning the failed core of a bygone era.

Not putting words in your mouth, which is why I specifically stated "if you would rather". Really don't see any other options back in 2013 and 2014 than tearing it all down and rebuilding. 

[PASabreFan]

I'm really not sure how rebuilding through free agency at the time would have set us up in a better position, long term. If we had less injuries and a better coach, we would have made the playoffs this year. Our core wasn't going to get us anywhere in the playoffs at the time. Reinhart and Eichel were absolutely worth it, imo.

You had to slip "better coach" in there lol. The injury excuse doesn't really hold up when you look at what they did coming out of the bye. Shoulda been loaded for bear.

[I-90 W]

You had to slip "better coach" in there lol. The injury excuse doesn't really hold up when you look at what they did coming out of the bye. Shoulda been loaded for bear.

I do of course admit that our d is a mess and it needs to be addressed somehow, but I honestly do place a lot of blame on DB. 

[kas23]

I hated the tank and was steadfastly against it.

 

So, I would rather not have tanked and would be happy not having Eichel.

Interesting. Another question: do you really think we "tanked"? Let's define "tank" as purposely losing. I think we can agree GMTM wanted to purposely lose, but do you think Teddy and the guys actually playing the games actually "tanked"?

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Interesting. Another question: do you really think we "tanked"? Let's define "tank" as purposely losing. I think we can agree GMTM wanted to purposely lose, but do you think Teddy and the guys actually playing the games actually "tanked"?

 

Management adopted the policy and took steps to ensure the roster was putrid.

 

Coaches and players never tank,

I'm really not sure how rebuilding through free agency at the time would have set us up in a better position, long term. If we had less injuries and a better coach, we would have made the playoffs this year. Our core wasn't going to get us anywhere in the playoffs at the time. Reinhart and Eichel were absolutely worth it, imo. 

Not putting words in your mouth, which is why I specifically stated "if you would rather". Really don't see any other options back in 2013 and 2014 than tearing it all down and rebuilding. 

 

I accept that, but better wording would have been ... If one would rather ... especially when we were in a one on one conversation and it seemed to be not a generalized statement.

[LTS]

Interesting. Another question: do you really think we "tanked"? Let's define "tank" as purposely losing. I think we can agree GMTM wanted to purposely lose, but do you think Teddy and the guys actually playing the games actually "tanked"?

 

Losing on purpose would indicate that you take active steps, in each game, to assure yoruself of a loss.  Murray is rebuilding the team and just like rebuilding a house you have to start with a new foundation.  If your house was destroyed tomorrow you'd have to live in a hotel room or some temporary place while a new one is built. It would not be as nice as your house (or the new one) and it would suck for everyone.  Eventually your house is built and you hope the architect designed something great.

 

It was a full on rebuild, it was never a tank.

[woods-racer]

Losing on purpose would indicate that you take active steps, in each game, to assure yoruself of a loss.  Murray is rebuilding the team and just like rebuilding a house you have to start with a new foundation.  If your house was destroyed tomorrow you'd have to live in a hotel room or some temporary place while a new one is built. It would not be as nice as your house (or the new one) and it would suck for everyone.  Eventually your house is built and you hope the architect designed something great.

 

It was a full on rebuild, it was never a tank.

 

 

Had to sell off the old house and live in an apartment in order to buy the lot and put the down payment on the new house. 

 

We sold off the old house..... the old core.

 

The apartment was lots of Journeymen players.

 

We have the lot and the core construction is done. 

 

Painters will be in over the summer, and hopefully will get some really nice woodwork accomplished before October. If we are really lucky the landscapers will get a good bit done.

 

If our job foreman knew his head from his buttocks thins would look a little better.

[kas23]

Losing on purpose would indicate that you take active steps, in each game, to assure yoruself of a loss. Murray is rebuilding the team and just like rebuilding a house you have to start with a new foundation. If your house was destroyed tomorrow you'd have to live in a hotel room or some temporary place while a new one is built. It would not be as nice as your house (or the new one) and it would suck for everyone. Eventually your house is built and you hope the architect designed something great.

 

It was a full on rebuild, it was never a tank.

I think the term "tank" is just thrown around a little bit too much. I just think that to earn this label, the coach has to be in on it in the very least. And Teddy never ever bought in to it.

 

GMTM was 1 person who could possibly be guilty of "tanking", but he was still just one person vs a coach and his entire team. And these players were adults, hardly that impressionable. It could've been worse, GMTM could've assumed coaching duties or he could've sent Risto to the Amerks like other truly tanking teams have done in the past. It's just not that clear and whether it caused a "cloud" to form over these players is even less clear as most of the players from those years are gone.

[Brawndo]

Hot Take: Bylsma survives until next season, but his potential replacement is hired as an Asst here or HC in Rochester this summer

[nucci]

Her?

Nice

[Eleven]

Nice

 

Mustache's was better:

 

http://forums.sabrespace.com/topic/24494-let-the-fire-bylsma-watch-begin/?p=928078

Edited March 28, 2017 by Eleven

[jsb]

Although disappointed with how this season has turned out, I'm not yet in the camp that this is all DDB's fault. The problem with depth in the system, the Dmen he has been saddled with and the youth of our best players also plays a part in this. I also think that when we're blaming DDB's system, is it really his system or the team GMTM is building??? Unlike most Eastern conference teams that are smaller, faster and built more on skill, if you do a serious look at the Sabres, size matters. 

Besides Gionta who may or may not be back next year and Ennis, everyone on the team is in the 200lb range or more. GMTM is building a big Western Conference team and not your Toronto, Pittsburgh smaller, faster model. 

Even looking at 3 of our 5 best forwards, ROR-Samson and Okposo, fast n' speedy does not come to mind when you talk of their best attributes. Add in Moulson, Gionta, Foligno, Girgensons and Larsson and again fast n' speedy is not in the mix. Do we have some guys in the mix that will improve that going forward??? Bailey, Carrier, Baptiste, Nylander and possibly Guhle but non have shown so far to be above average NHL talent and until they do, the fact is they're not.

 

Last year we were out of the playoff hunt in December and it took a 8-3-2 run at the end of the year to make our record somewhat respectable. This year we were in the hunt until after the bye week. Overall record wise we are not that much better than last year but taking a step back, we're actually much better going forward for the experience almost all of our guys are experiencing (maybe were is better than are) for the first time being in a playoff race with games having a bit more meaning for the opposing team than last year also. If they fire him and go in another direction, I won't be disappointed but a bit more patience and a step up from some of the younger guys, could turn this thing around pretty quickly.

[WildCard]

Although disappointed with how this season has turned out, I'm not yet in the camp that this is all DDB's fault. The problem with depth in the system, the Dmen he has been saddled with and the youth of our best players also plays a part in this. I also think that when we're blaming DDB's system, is it really his system or the team GMTM is building??? Unlike most Eastern conference teams that are smaller, faster and built more on skill, if you do a serious look at the Sabres, size matters. 

Besides Gionta who may or may not be back next year and Ennis, everyone on the team is in the 200lb range or more. GMTM is building a big Western Conference team and not your Toronto, Pittsburgh smaller, faster model. 

Even looking at 3 of our 5 best forwards, ROR-Samson and Okposo, fast n' speedy does not come to mind when you talk of their best attributes. Add in Moulson, Gionta, Foligno, Girgensons and Larsson and again fast n' speedy is not in the mix. Do we have some guys in the mix that will improve that going forward??? Bailey, Carrier, Baptiste, Nylander and possibly Guhle but non have shown so far to be above average NHL talent and until they do, the fact is they're not.

 

Last year we were out of the playoff hunt in December and it took a 8-3-2 run at the end of the year to make our record somewhat respectable. This year we were in the hunt until after the bye week. Overall record wise we are not that much better than last year but taking a step back, we're actually much better going forward for the experience almost all of our guys are experiencing (maybe were is better than are) for the first time being in a playoff race with games having a bit more meaning for the opposing team than last year also. If they fire him and go in another direction, I won't be disappointed but a bit more patience and a step up from some of the younger guys, could turn this thing around pretty quickly.

Experience? Playoff race? I'm so sick of this argument. We've gained absolutely positively nothing this season outside of Eichel's improvement. Everyone else has been stagnant, and will continue to be until Byslma leaves. This has been in almost every sense of the word, a throwaway season.

[darksabre]

The Sabres should be total garbage without Ristolainen in the lineup if we are to believe that their major problem all season isn't Dan, but the defense. 

And yet, here we are going into our 3rd game without him tonight and we're looking darn good. I suppose tonight will be an interesting case study against a good team like Columbus. 

But if we come out of tonight with a win, then we've got two pretty interesting variables to play with regarding the perceived impact of the roster on the team's success:

1. Winning with or without Risto

2. Eichel coming back, scoring almost a PPG, but not changing our ability to win

If Dan isn't to blame, then arguably we should be a total dumpster fire in every game that Risto doesn't play in and Jack's scoring should have a much higher impact on our ability to win. If both of these things don't occur...

[MattPie]

Although disappointed with how this season has turned out, I'm not yet in the camp that this is all DDB's fault. The problem with depth in the system, the Dmen he has been saddled with and the youth of our best players also plays a part in this. I also think that when we're blaming DDB's system, is it really his system or the team GMTM is building??? Unlike most Eastern conference teams that are smaller, faster and built more on skill, if you do a serious look at the Sabres, size matters. 

Besides Gionta who may or may not be back next year and Ennis, everyone on the team is in the 200lb range or more. GMTM is building a big Western Conference team and not your Toronto, Pittsburgh smaller, faster model. 

Even looking at 3 of our 5 best forwards, ROR-Samson and Okposo, fast n' speedy does not come to mind when you talk of their best attributes. Add in Moulson, Gionta, Foligno, Girgensons and Larsson and again fast n' speedy is not in the mix. Do we have some guys in the mix that will improve that going forward??? Bailey, Carrier, Baptiste, Nylander and possibly Guhle but non have shown so far to be above average NHL talent and until they do, the fact is they're not.

 

Last year we were out of the playoff hunt in December and it took a 8-3-2 run at the end of the year to make our record somewhat respectable. This year we were in the hunt until after the bye week. Overall record wise we are not that much better than last year but taking a step back, we're actually much better going forward for the experience almost all of our guys are experiencing (maybe were is better than are) for the first time being in a playoff race with games having a bit more meaning for the opposing team than last year also. If they fire him and go in another direction, I won't be disappointed but a bit more patience and a step up from some of the younger guys, could turn this thing around pretty quickly.

 

We weren't in the hunt at the bye week. I think there's a thread  :flirt:  that did the math and found the Sabres needed to play at a president's trophy pace for the remainder of the season just to get to the bubble. The only possible reason it looked that way was the Adams Division is pretty bad this year.

[WildCard]

Gonna be even better when we draft ahead of Vegas next year

[Taro T]

We weren't in the hunt at the bye week. I think there's a thread  :flirt:  that did the math and found the Sabres needed to play at a president's trophy pace for the remainder of the season just to get to the bubble. The only possible reason it looked that way was the Adams Division is pretty bad this year.

The Sabres having played ~3 more games than everybody else at that point also made it look closer than it was.

[TrueBlueGED]

Although disappointed with how this season has turned out, I'm not yet in the camp that this is all DDB's fault.

I just want to point out, for seemingly the quadrillionth time, that no such camp exists. Some may think Bylsma is the biggest problem, but nobody has said he's the only problem.

[Taro T]

I just want to point out, for seemingly the quadrillionth time, that no such camp exists. Some may think Bylsma is the biggest problem, but nobody has said he's the only problem.

Correct. Thank you.

[pi2000]

The Sabres should be total garbage without Ristolainen in the lineup if we are to believe that their major problem all season isn't Dan, but the defense. 

 

And yet, here we are going into our 3rd game without him tonight and we're looking darn good. I suppose tonight will be an interesting case study against a good team like Columbus. 

 

But if we come out of tonight with a win, then we've got two pretty interesting variables to play with regarding the perceived impact of the roster on the team's success:

 

1. Winning with or without Risto

 

2. Eichel coming back, scoring almost a PPG, but not changing our ability to win

 

If Dan isn't to blame, then arguably we should be a total dumpster fire in every game that Risto doesn't play in and Jack's scoring should have a much higher impact on our ability to win. If both of these things don't occur...

 

 

Winning without Risto is nice, but... IMO these late season games don't really mean anything when it comes to evaluating your roster.   Teams that have clinched playoff spots have taken their foot off the gas, same can be said for teams on the outside looking in.   FLA looked very disinterested last night, very poor compete level, etc.  which gave the illusion BUF played well.    If that game was in January, I would bet on a different outcome.

 

I'm hoping GMTM evaluates the roster based on what they did from Dec to shortly after the bye week.    That was when playoffs were on the line and they needed to step up and show something.    

[darksabre]

Commmmmmeeeee onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

[Eleven]

I know we got the chant going at the Gate, but did you all do it at the game or no?