What do you think of Tim Murray?

[dudacek]

I was reading some harsh criticism of Tim Murray earlier today on the internet.

Some random poster going off that he's been a terrible GM who was gifted Sam and Jack and has largely squandered the full bag of assets he was handed.

 

Darcy Regier taught me that its not whether you win the trades that's important, it's the team that you build.

Ink reminds me three or four times a year that prospects are nice, but they mean ###### on game night.

 

With that in mind let's weigh the NHL players Murray has acquired overall versus the ones he has moved or let walk. This list doesn't include players that were acquired then moved or let go like Chad Johnson, guys no longer in the NHL like Linus Omark, prospects who have yet to arrive like Will Carrier or JT Compher, or picks.

 

Just real live NHL players, in rough order of current NHL usefulness (and a new coach):

 

IN (Bylsma)

O'Reilly, Eichel, Okposo, Reinhart, Kane, Bogosian, Kulikov, Lehner, Gionta, Gorges, Franson, Deslauriers, Moulson, Nilsson

 

OUT (Nolan)

Myers, Stafford, Pysyk, McNabb, Miller, Grigorenko, Zadorov, Enroth, Ott, Ehrhoff, Weber, Flynn, McBain

 

Are you kidding me? Unless you think Miller is better than Lehner, he's given up one guy (Myers) who would currently be in the top half of our lineup and acquired eight.

 

A Murray hater would probably come back with "yeah, but he gave up too many futures."

Same drill with acquired and traded prospects, including net gains or losses on picks over his tenure:

 

IN

Fasching, Asplund, Carrier, Nelson, Rodrigues, Kasdorf, two 3rds, 5th, 7th

 

OUT

Compher, Lemieux, Armia, 1st, 2nd, 4th

 

The tradeoff is probably a net loss at the moment, but not a significant one. And it will turn into a net win if he signs Vesey.

 

For those worried about a dry pipeline, he's made 25 picks in his three drafts, 12 of them in the first three rounds and traded away just one of the prospects selected, Brendan Lemieux.

 

It seems to me he's improved the NHL roster drastically while safely managing the pool of futures.

 

More to the point, he's improved the team 29 points in two years.

The hardest part is still to come, but I can't understand how anyone looking at the big picture could not be happy with what Tim has done so far.

 

What have I missed?

Edited July 29, 2016 by dudacek

[Huckleberry]

I'm a fan, I think those that are against in him do so because he made some risky trades.  The ones I don't see darcy ever making.

 

Most seem to have issues with the following trades.

 

1st round pick for Lehner and Legwand, would love legwand back in a 4C/PK role.

the trade for kane and bogo, the kane off ice issues do make this trade look bad at this point, he was supposed to be the best player in the trade.

And the 3rd round pick for vessey, some might feel its a waste, but with the amount of prospects we have its not a waste at all.

 

don't think you'll find many who are soured on our GM on this board though.

[Weave]

Until we start winning he's just another in a line of GM's for this team.  All this means nothing yet.

[Marvelo]

I like the forwards and the D is shaping up although it needs more in the top end. TM has really taken a gamble on Lehner and I don't see a good backup when he gets injured, although I have high hopes in Cal Peterson.       TM overpays on trades or free-agents he covets but those guys are available for a reason. I don't like long-term contracts unless the player is a cornerstone.

 

Despite all this, he remains The Most Interesting Man in the World.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Marvelo

[dudacek]

It is exactly this meme he overpays that I am trying to address here.

Look at the assets he has given up and what he has got in return.

If he generally overpays, how did our team get so much better?

Without killing our cap or sacrificing the future?

 

Seems to me people miss the forest for the trees on that one.

Edited July 29, 2016 by dudacek

[sabills]

I like GM, but we'll know a lot more about him in about 2018. He wasn't gifted Jack, Sam maybe, but he had to work to get last place in 2015. The Kane trade looks bad now, but I don't think he could have predicted the crap from this last year, I don't believe he had ever had legal issues before the trade, just team and social media issues. 

 

What I need to see is him finish. He's got good pieces in place. The [frantically searches thesaurus.com for a synonym of core...] nucleas of this team is there. Now he has to grow the talent, and fill in the roster with the complementary pieces that will put it over the top. I believe in him, but the real job started this offseason. LFG GMTM.

[3putt]

I look at what we got for the futures we traded away and am not that impressed.  Those 1sts, even the late ones, were the key to making sure the tank was worth it.  There would be no consternation over Vesey, if Boeser, White and Roslovic were in the fold.  I am not a Lehner fan and think he is a placeholder for Peterson. Thus giving away a first for that was a high price.  Adding the first in the Kane trade was an overpay imho.  The comment about coveting is where I stand.  

 

The trade for ROR was genius.  I don't think he overpaid because he knew the biggest part of the deal was the Sabres ability and willingness to sign him to the deal they did.  Not many partners.

 

I think the overhaul has been generally good, but we are still a fringe playoff team with holes on d and in net.  We won't be drafting in the top 5 or 10 likely anytime soon as we are no longer doormats.  So this is where we wait and see if the near ready assets develop and take us over the top.

 

I applaud his aggressive approach.  I give him a B+ to date.  I look at some of the other teams core, i.e. Jets, Flames, Oilers, TB and wonder if we got as much out of our rebuild to put us clearly out in front.  Time will tell, but it will be more enjoyable to watch as early as this season.  

[SwampD]

When we needed to suck, we sucked. When we needed to start improving, we started to improve. This year we need to start winning. Let's see how we do. That's the only way I'll judge GMTM.

 

Getting caught up in all the minutia of every trade is silly. Especially since many Sabres fan gets angry at every trade that isn't Briere for Gratton.

[dudacek]

When we needed to suck, we sucked. When we needed to start improving, we started to improve. This year we need to start winning. Let's see how we do. That's the only way I'll judge GMTM.

 

Getting caught up in all the minutia of every trade is silly. Especially since many Sabres fan gets angry at every trade that isn't Briere for Gratton.

This is where I'm at exactly.

[3putt]

It is exactly this meme he overpays that I am trying to address here.

Look at the assets he has given up and what he has got in return.

If he generally overpays, how did our team get so much better?

Without killing our cap or sacrificing the future?

 

Seems to me people miss the forest for the trees on that one.

That is noble but probably a fruitless errand.  Some will value individual pieces differently. One may like player x and not y.  Thus an argument that he overpaid for y but got a deal on x naturally ensues. Until this group meets or exceeds expectations we will not be able to determine if he was wise or foolish.  I am hopeful.  But we are now a cap team and will not have the discretion we had in the past.  So the die is cast.  His real work begins now.  I also think there will be moves that will come that will rock this board.  After all he is ZFG. 

[bunomatic]

I like the GM and like the direction of the team. This GM isn't going to wet himself worrying about making a trade or improving the team.

[ddaryl]

TM the GM is the man

It is exactly this meme he overpays that I am trying to address here.
Look at the assets he has given up and what he has got in return.
If he generally overpays, how did our team get so much better?
Without killing our cap or sacrificing the future?

Seems to me people miss the forest for the trees on that one.

 

 

you want ot make an omelette you got to break a few eggs. We have lots of assets no worries at all

[dudacek]

That is noble but probably a fruitless errand.  Some will value individual pieces differently. One may like player x and not y.  Thus an argument that he overpaid for y but got a deal on x naturally ensues. Until this group meets or exceeds expectations we will not be able to determine if he was wise or foolish.  I am hopeful.  But we are now a cap team and will not have the discretion we had in the past.  So the die is cast.  His real work begins now.  I also think there will be moves that will come that will rock this board.  After all he is ZFG.

 

Agreed. But he has accomplished step one, he's transformed an AHL-caliber roster into a real NHL hockey team.

It's a young team with some unproven but intriguing talent.

This season should give us some indication of how good and what still needs to be done to put us over the top.

[wjag]

Until we start winning ###### he's just another in a line of GM's for this team.  All this means nothing yet.

 

 

Agreed.. He is a JAG right now..

[PASabreFan]

Until we start winning ###### he's just another in a line of GM's for this team.  All this means nothing yet.

 

 

When we needed to suck, we sucked. When we needed to start improving, we started to improve. This year we need to start winning. Let's see how we do. That's the only way I'll judge GMTM.

 

Getting caught up in all the minutia of every trade is silly. Especially since many Sabres fan gets angry at every trade that isn't Briere for Gratton.

 

 

Agreed.. He is a JAG right now..

As Charles Emerson Winchester III used to say... "Gentlemen..."

 

I'm not going to crown his ass. I like him well enough, but the cult of personality that is growing around him is annoying.

[Eleven]

When we needed to suck, we sucked. When we needed to start improving, we started to improve. This year we need to start winning. Let's see how we do. That's the only way I'll judge GMTM.

 

Getting caught up in all the minutia of every trade is silly. Especially since many Sabres fan gets angry at every trade that isn't Briere for Gratton.

 

This is where I'm at.

[Hoss]

I'd take his last name if he'd just say yes

[That Aud Smell]

I applaud his aggressive approach.  I give him a B+ to date.  I look at some of the other teams core, i.e. Jets, Flames, Oilers, TB and wonder if we got as much out of our rebuild to put us clearly out in front.  Time will tell, but it will be more enjoyable to watch as early as this season.  

 

Good take.

 

When we needed to suck, we sucked. When we needed to start improving, we started to improve. This year we need to start winning. Let's see how we do. That's the only way I'll judge GMTM.

 

Getting caught up in all the minutia of every trade is silly. Especially since many Sabres fan gets angry at every trade that isn't Briere for Gratton.

 

I'll third the support of this - well done.

 

As Charles Emerson Winchester III used to say... "Gentlemen..."

 

I'm not going to crown his ass. I like him well enough, but the cult of personality that is growing around him is annoying.

 

You would be a Winchester man. (Ha!)

 

The allusion to Dennis Green makes me sad. RIP, Denny.

 

 

As for the cult of personality, I hear you. But it's somewhat inevitable, especially when you have a curious character like GM TM and an active fan base hungry for hope and entertainment.

[Samson's Flow]

When we needed to suck, we sucked. When we needed to start improving, we started to improve. This year we need to start winning. Let's see how we do. That's the only way I'll judge GMTM.

 

Getting caught up in all the minutia of every trade is silly. Especially since many Sabres fan gets angry at every trade that isn't Briere for Gratton.

This exactly.

 

Plus his "ZFG" meme and attitude is fun for us fans.

[BMWR100RT]

I'll add that I like him simply because he isn't Darcy. Apparently his fax machine works.

[Kr632]

I swear the guy sat and watched me play NHL 15 be a gm mode for a while. Kane, bogo, O'Reilly, okposo are usually my first few moves. I love the guy, we think a like roster building wise. The only complaint I could have is the overpayment for lehner. But if he pans out its a solid move. His ZFG attitude puts the cherry on top.

[3putt]

Agreed. But he has accomplished step one, he's transformed an AHL-caliber roster into a real NHL hockey team.

It's a young team with some unproven but intriguing talent.

This season should give us some indication of how good and what still needs to be done to put us over the top.

Also agree.  That is why I am tempering my playoff hopes.  There still may be a few transformative moves to be made.  

[inkman]

I'll add that I like him simply because he isn't Darcy. Apparently his fax machine works.

Its been 17 years!!

[WildCard]

I'd take his last name if he'd just say yes

And if he says no, you'll just take him, right?

[bob_sauve28]

When we needed to suck, we sucked. When we needed to start improving, we started to improve. This year we need to start winning. Let's see how we do. That's the only way I'll judge GMTM.

 

Getting caught up in all the minutia of every trade is silly. Especially since many Sabres fan gets angry at every trade that isn't Briere for Gratton.

my thoughts exactly. Just win baby!