What do you think of Tim Murray?

[Neo]

Great thread. Three or four different topics. You can agree with all without contradicting others.

 

Dudacek ... Great idea, homework and conclusion.

 

To those who've acknowledged the progress but still reserve the right to judge based on success at the next step. Yes.

 

To the ZFG attitude. I like it. Sports is outsized personality and entertainment, I like GMTM's ZFG moniker. It's like a WWF slogan.

 

PA and Darcy. Right on. You can respect what Darcy did without saying he's better or worse than GMTM. I always thought Darcy did a great job given his economic constraints. He HAD to win every trade. GMTM goes shopping with more money in his pockets. He can afford to take risks and miss. If he buys a lousy lunch, he'll not miss dinner. All that said, it was time for Darcy/Ruff to go. I remember your posts at the time.

[DirtDart]

I swear the guy sat and watched me play NHL 15 be a gm mode for a while. Kane, bogo, O'Reilly, okposo are usually my first few moves. I love the guy, we think a like roster building wise. The only complaint I could have is the overpayment for lehner. But if he pans out its a solid move. His ZFG attitude puts the cherry on top.

I trust the Lehner pick, he watched him play enough. GMTM knew that his health would be a wild card.

[Thorny]

Great thread. Three or four different topics. You can agree with all without contradicting others.

Dudacek ... Great idea, homework and conclusion.

To those who've acknowledged the progress but still reserve the right to judge based on success at the next step. Yes.

To the ZFG attitude. I like it. Sports is outsized personality and entertainment, I like GMTM's ZFG moniker. It's like a WWF sloganPA and Darcy. Right on. You can respect what Darcy did without saying he's better or worse than GMTM. I always thought Darcy did a great job given his economic constraints. He HAD to win every trade. GMTM goes shopping with more money in his pockets. He can afford to take risks and miss. If he buys a lousy lunch, he'll not miss dinner. All that said, it was time for Darcy/Ruff to go. I remember your posts at the time.

[beerme1]

Regier is a bum because why? His good teams didn't win it all? Things came apart at the end because his core didn't come through? Meanwhile, all GMTM has to do is squeak his team into the playoffs and he's Lou Lamoriello?

 

God I sure hope GMTM isn't Lou and he gives no indication he is. But Darcy was so good that he moved on to asst GM and then retirement? Doesn't seem to be a place in the league for him anywhere. Small market or otherwise. I bid him farewell and send him on his viking cruise.

[PASabreFan]

God I sure hope GMTM isn't Lou and he gives no indication he is. But Darcy was so good that he moved on to asst GM and then retirement? Doesn't seem to be a place in the league for him anywhere. Small market or otherwise. I bid him farewell and send him on his viking cruise.

I should have plugged in the name of another legendary GM. I couldn't think of any others right off the top.

[Neo]

Awesome.

[7+6=13]

I can't wait until we start winning in a serious way (I wholeheartedly believe we will)  - so I won't have to listen/read the negativity from our own.

Edited July 31, 2016 by 7+6=13

[GASabresIUFAN]

You mean the guy who guided the Sabres to one Cup final, four conference finals, a Presidents' Trophy and a division title as recently as 2010 — and easily could have won two Cups in his tenure? I certainly wanted Regier gone for the same reason I wanted Ruff gone. It was time. But if at this point early in Tim's career as a GM you are suggesting he is a better GM than Darcy, I disagree. Results have to matter. This is my concern. Regier is a bum because why? His good teams didn't win it all? Things came apart at the end because his core didn't come through? Meanwhile, all GMTM has to do is squeak his team into the playoffs and he's Lou Lamoriello?

Regier is a bum because he failed at the most important thing a GM has to do for a small market franchise and that is to draft and develop players.  For example during his entire tenure he drafted and developed one player, 1, who could be considered a top 2 line center and that was Derek Roy.  This failure to draft and develop centers ultimately lead to the decline of the franchise once Drury and Briere left town. There was simply no one in the system with that ability to even to try to replace them.  (Ennis was drafted as a center, but found success mostly as a winger).

 

His 1st rd draft record was abysmal.  From 1997 to 2011 only 6 or 16 1st rd picks made a meaningful contribution to the Sabres and only 1 of his 1st 7 and that was Kalinin.  A competent GM can't do this poorly.  His non-performers were legendary; Norenan, Heisten, Kryukov, Zagrapan, and Persson headline the list.  Vanek and arguably Myers were his only star selections and Stafford, Ennis and Kalinin his only other top 2 line players.  His second rd picks are worse.  Beyond Roy, Pommers and Tallinder that is nearly nothing to show for 19 picks from 97 to 2011.  

 

He also gutted the pipeline on terrible deadline trades for the likes of Rivet, Moore and Torres leaving the team without a single 2nd rd pick from 2009 to 2011. (Although my favorite deadline deal was MacArthur to Atlanta for 2 picks (3rd - J Gauthier-Leduc; and 4th Steven Shipley - truly inspired trade and drafting). Add this to his great UFA signings and you have a terrible GM that should have been fired long before the tank began.  

 

I fully agree that he does deserve some credit for building the team out of the lockout.  Solid trades for Drury and Briere laid the initial foundation, but it was the develop of late rd surprises like Miller and Campbell that truly elevated the team.  (He also got lucky getting Briere for Gratton after the horrible trade of Gratton for Ballard).   However his late rd magic failed after Gaustad in 2000.  Amazingly he drafted quality defenders Wideman and Hejda, but didn't sign either.

 

I also agree that GMTM is just starting out, but despite his aggressive moves he has managed to keep the pipeline full, something Regier never did after the graduation of the 2004-2005 Amerks.  The Sabres are overflowing with 40 prospects in the system with legit NHL prospects at every position.  G - Ullmark, Peterson, Kasdorf; D - Guhle, Borgen, C - Cornel, Estephan and Asplund, LW - Nylander, Carrier, and RW - Bailey, Fasching, Baptiste headline the list.

Edited July 31, 2016 by GASabresIUFAN

[7+6=13]

I agree it's not fair to compare GMTM to Regier.  The only thing that matters is how he performs for us - but in terms of comparing it would only be against other GM's.  To me trades are swapping assets and by their nature are meant to be even.  You give something to get something.  It's a combination of moving money around, getting draft picks or getting players that better fit your scheme. 

 

I think you build your team by drafting great,  developing those players, when they develop sign them to long term deals and signing some key FA's to fill in the holes.  In this area I'm extremely comfortable with what GMTM is doing. 

[dudacek]

GMTM's first big trade got forgotten somewhat on here:

Ryan Miller and Steve Ott for Will Carrier, Jaro Halak, Chris Stewart, and a first.

 

Essentially, the Blues got a few years of fourth line line play from Ott and a Miller playoff flameout.

We got Carrier, a 2nd, a piece of Kane and a chance to move up to get Asplund.

 

Kinda much ado about nothing.

[Neo]

GMTM's first big trade got forgotten somewhat on here:

Ryan Miller and Steve Ott for Will Carrier, Jaro Halak, Chris Stewart, and a first.

Essentially, the Blues got a few years of fourth line line play from Ott and a Miller playoff flameout.

We got Carrier, a 2nd, a piece of Kane and a chance to move up to get Asplund.

Kinda much ado about nothing.

At the time, a trade of today when it meant nothing for tomorrow when it meant everything.

 

I put that in the same zip code as Datsyuk to Arizona. I like 'em both.