Jack Eichel: Trade rumors and speculation

[Pimlach]

22 hours ago, klos1963 said:

I meant specifically about Eichel, not in general. If someone called Beane about Allen, after he stopped laughing, should Beane discuss what it may take to get Allen, even hypothetically? Of course not.

 

There is nothing wrong with Adams talking to GMs, in general or about Eichel (a player that has wanted to leave since Botterill was fired, maybe sooner), or about anyone else.   Adams is GM of a last place team.  No player is sacred.  
 

If someone called Beane about Allen, Beane would indeed laugh about it, then he would politely move the conversation.  He could ask him about his wife and family, his golf game, ask about the upcoming NFL meetings, maybe even talk about other players …. Beene would talk to an NFL peer.  Brandon Beane is a highly polished professional.  Adams needs to do establish himself so he has to engage in conversations with his peers.  

Let’s be clear, Eichel is not Allen.  Not on the field, and not off the field.  Eichel is just not at Allen’s level.  
 

Allen is an elite talent at the single most critical position in any sport.  The Bills are on the cusp of a championship and Allen is the single most important player on the team.   Eichel is a very good player, a top 10 center with potential to maybe be a top 4 or 5 center.  

Allen makes his team better.   Eichel has not achieved that.  

Allen is a true leader and is loved by his teammates and coaches.  Eichel is friends with some of his teammates.   

The only real similarity is that Eichel works very hard at his craft, just like Allen. 
 

 

Edited August 22, 2021 by Pimlach

[mjd1001]

12 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Let’s be clear, Eichel is not Allen.  Not on the field, and not off the field.  Eichel is just not at Allen’s level.  
 

Allen is an elite talent at the single most critical position in any sport.  The Bills are on the cusp of a championship and Allen is the single most important player on the team.   Eichel is a very good player, a top 10 center with potential to maybe be a top 4 or 5 center.  

Allen makes his team better.   Eichel has not achieved that.  

Allen is true leader and loved by his teammates and coaches.  Eichel is friends with some of his teammates.   

The only real similarity is that Eichel works very hard at his craft, just like Allen. 
 

 

My opinion is a lot of Sabres fans over-rate Eichel.  Many still think he is that generational player when he is not. He is a very good player on the ice, and all-star for sure, but not even close to generational.

A couple weeks ago I was traveling through northern NY state for work and picked up on a radio show (I think it was out of Ottawa) and they had a guest on that explained Eichel in a very simple way but it goes to what I believe. This guest said Jack Eichel is a top 5-6 TALENT in the NHL, but he is not a top 5-6 PLAYER.  Not that he is lazy or has a terrible attitude, but there is just something missing that would make that talent turn into results.  Maybe it is the team he plays on (Sabres), but his top 5 talent only translates into a top 20-30 player right now.

[Pimlach]

4 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

My opinion is a lot of Sabres fans over-rate Eichel.  Many still think he is that generational player when he is not. He is a very good player on the ice, and all-star for sure, but not even close to generational.

A couple weeks ago I was traveling through northern NY state for work and picked up on a radio show (I think it was out of Ottawa) and they had a guest on that explained Eichel in a very simple way but it goes to what I believe. This guest said Jack Eichel is a top 5-6 TALENT in the NHL, but he is not a top 5-6 PLAYER.  Not that he is lazy or has a terrible attitude, but there is just something missing that would make that talent turn into results.  Maybe it is the team he plays on (Sabres), but his top 5 talent only translates into a top 20-30 player right now.

I think that playing on a terrible team contributes to what you describe.  He has also had some poor coaches.  He is not at all lazy.  His attitude is sometimes questioned.  The Sabres did nothing to help him mature as a player or as a person.  
 

Some posters here say that hockey is not the game that one player can uplift and carry a team.  Maybe that is true but certain players transform and build the mindset of a team.  

[JohnC]

6 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

My opinion is a lot of Sabres fans over-rate Eichel.  Many still think he is that generational player when he is not. He is a very good player on the ice, and all-star for sure, but not even close to generational.

A couple weeks ago I was traveling through northern NY state for work and picked up on a radio show (I think it was out of Ottawa) and they had a guest on that explained Eichel in a very simple way but it goes to what I believe. This guest said Jack Eichel is a top 5-6 TALENT in the NHL, but he is not a top 5-6 PLAYER.  Not that he is lazy or has a terrible attitude, but there is just something missing that would make that talent turn into results.  Maybe it is the team he plays on (Sabres), but his top 5 talent only translates into a top 20-30 player right now.

When you are a top tier talent and play on a bad team your production is going to be wasted. He lacked the support required for the team to succeed. That's the heart of the problem for this failed franchise. The Sabres had more than enough time to bring in players or develop players in their system to thicken the roster. However, bad personnel decisions and the constant changing of the staff created an instability within the organization that couldn't be overcome. The hockey world has a dim view of this franchise under the stewardship of the Pegulas. They have earned the league wide scorn. All you have to do is check the record. It's embarrassing. 

[Cascade Youth]

Eichel seems to be enrolled at the Aaron Rogers School of Passive-Aggressive Behavior.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Cascade Youth

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

I think that playing on a terrible team contributes to what you describe.  He has also had some poor coaches.  He is not at all lazy.  His attitude is sometimes questioned.  The Sabres did nothing to help him mature as a player or as a person.  
 

Some posters here say that hockey is not the game that one player can uplift and carry a team.  Maybe that is true but certain players transform and build the mindset of a team.  

I disagree. Certain players can and do lift their teams. Did Chris Drury lift the Sabres? It's not always a question of talent but leadership.

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

When you are a top tier talent and play on a bad team your production is going to be wasted. He lacked the support required for the team to succeed. That's the heart of the problem for this failed franchise. The Sabres had more than enough time to bring in players or develop players in their system to thicken the roster. However, bad personnel decisions and the constant changing of the staff created an instability within the organization that couldn't be overcome. The hockey world has a dim view of this franchise under the stewardship of the Pegulas. They have earned the league wide scorn. All you have to do is check the record. It's embarrassing. 

And I disagree here as well. The Sabres brought in talent. It didn't mesh. That's on the inferior coaching. But GM Tim Murray also brought in toxic talent like Kane and Lehner. But I disagree the Sabres didn't try to build around Jack.

[PASabreFan]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

I think that playing on a terrible team contributes to what you describe.  He has also had some poor coaches.  He is not at all lazy.  His attitude is sometimes questioned.  The Sabres did nothing to help him mature as a player or as a person.  
 

Some posters here say that hockey is not the game that one player can uplift and carry a team.  Maybe that is true but certain players transform and build the mindset of a team.  

None of which, of course, can be put into a spreadsheet, which is why it's discounted by some.

[JohnC]

8 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

And I disagree here as well. The Sabres brought in talent. It didn't mesh. That's on the inferior coaching. But GM Tim Murray also brought in toxic talent like Kane and Lehner. But I disagree the Sabres didn't try to build around Jack.

Let me put it a different way. They did try to build around Jack but for a variety of reasons were unsuccessful at doing it to the degree that they needed to. One of the essential things a GM has to do when assembling talent is making sure that the pieces fit (as you noted). It didn't happen to the extent it needed to as their dismal record indicates. The Pegula era has gone on for a decade. During that ignominious period this franchise has floundered. There are a number of people who are not satisfied with KA as our GM. To his credit he has at least a plan and without taking diverting shortcuts he seems determined to execute it. Hopefully, he will be given enough time to do it. . 

[Radar]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

I think that playing on a terrible team contributes to what you describe.  He has also had some poor coaches.  He is not at all lazy.  His attitude is sometimes questioned.  The Sabres did nothing to help him mature as a player or as a person.  
 

Some posters here say that hockey is not the game that one player can uplift and carry a team.  Maybe that is true but certain players transform and build the mindset of a team.  

Agree. I have been critical of his attitude myself. Then again at the age of 78 and looking back at age 24 my attitude could have definitely been questioned. Jack is such a talent I only hope he can find guidance in handling the pressures he encounters. I believe it was a mistake making him a captain and I also feel the organization has failed in it's handling of this situation.

[PASabreFan]

14 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Let me put it a different way. They did try to build around Jack but for a variety of reasons were unsuccessful at doing it to the degree that they needed to. One of the essential things a GM has to do when assembling talent is making sure that the pieces fit (as you noted). It didn't happen to the extent it needed to as their dismal record indicates. The Pegula era has gone on for a decade. During that ignominious period this franchise has floundered. There are a number of people who are not satisfied with KA as our GM. To his credit he has at least a plan and without taking diverting shortcuts he seems determined to execute it. Hopefully, he will be given enough time to do it. . 

In terms of enough time, is the McBeane analogy apt? In year one, they cleaned house to a fair extent and unexpectedly took the team to the playoffs. In year 2, a step back. In year 3, the playoffs again. Year 4 — contenders. Or is NHL vs. NFL too much apples vs. oranges?

Adams does seem to be doing a pretty good BB impression.

[Doohickie]

It's been so long since anyone has actually posted a rumor or speculation about trading Eichel.  At this point maybe this megathread should be shut down.  Nothing's happening until something happens and then it will be a new thread.

[Pimlach]

48 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

And I disagree here as well. The Sabres brought in talent. It didn't mesh. That's on the inferior coaching. But GM Tim Murray also brought in toxic talent like Kane and Lehner. But I disagree the Sabres didn't try to build around Jack.

Murray made a bunch of mistakes with our tank capital and I did not at all like the job he did or the way he did it.  Botterill never seemed to do enough in the off season to make them competitive.  He resurrected Rochester, so that was good.   He brought in Housley and Ralph and both turned out bad.  The ROR trade, his inability to replace him, stockpiling defenseman, his inability to improve the goaltending … it seemed like they were one coach and just a few moves away from getting better but it never happened.  Now we have Adams who started with less hockey Operations experience than Botterill and Murray. 
 

Reinhart, Risto, McCabe and Ullmark all have had enough.   Eichel wanting to leave does not surprise me, the most painful part is not honoring the contract and the injury disconnect.  

[klos1963]

15 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

That's the laziest excuse. "Jack can act like an ass because the Sabres blah blah blah..."

Ideally, no. 

I never said he's acting like an ass. He wants out, the Sabres want him out. He's injured , they disagree on the type of surgery required. Would you trust the sabres to make the right health decision for you?  It wouldn't surprise me that if they agreed on surgery from the outset, a trade might not be inevitable.

[Brawndo]

https://www.thefourthperiod.com/pagnotta/waiting-game-continues-for-eichel

 

From David Pagnotta. 
 

He mentions the Sabres might be willing to retain some salary to get the return they want. 
 

Mike Russo of the Athletic mentioned the Wild might be inclined to jump back in if Eichel’s AAV was lower. 
 

If Boldy, Rossi and two firsts are the return, Boldy will be on his ELC for two more years and Rossi will be on His for three. The Two First Rounders would still be on their ELCs when Eichel’s Deal Expires. With Eichel having five years left that’s essentially only two seasons of having to be concerned about the retained money, which would probably be around 2 to 2.5 Million. The downside is the Sabres(Yeah right) might be a legitimate cup contender in 4-5 years and need that extra space. 
 

That being said, if that’s the best deal on the table and they land bonafide Top Line Prospects in Boldy and Rossi I would make the deal. 

[Derrico]

8 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

https://www.thefourthperiod.com/pagnotta/waiting-game-continues-for-eichel

 

From David Pagnotta. 
 

He mentions the Sabres might be willing to retain some salary to get the return they want. 
 

Mike Russo of the Athletic mentioned the Wild might be inclined to jump back in if Eichel’s AAV was lower. 
 

If Boldy, Rossi and two firsts are the return, Boldy will be on his ELC for two more years and Rossi will be on His for three. The Two First Rounders would still be on their ELCs when Eichel’s Deal Expires. With Eichel having five years left that’s essentially only two seasons of having to be concerned about the retained money, which would probably be around 2 to 2.5 Million. The downside is the Sabres(Yeah right) might be a legitimate cup contender in 4-5 years and need that extra space. 
 

That being said, if that’s the best deal on the table and they land bonafide Top Line Prospects in Boldy and Rossi I would make the deal. 

If they can get both Boldy and Rossi and 2 firsts, and the Pegulas are willing to pay some of the contract, I think this trade would be in the best interest of the Buffalo Sabres.  Sure seems like the return will never be better.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

It really seems that the Sabres are going to have to retain some salary on Jack in order to get something of value in return.

A question for the CBA gurus out there, or anyone else that knows ...

Retaining salary is that just a cap thing, or do the Sabres actually have to pay the $?

[Digger]

21 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

https://www.thefourthperiod.com/pagnotta/waiting-game-continues-for-eichel

 

From David Pagnotta. 
 

He mentions the Sabres might be willing to retain some salary to get the return they want. 
 

Mike Russo of the Athletic mentioned the Wild might be inclined to jump back in if Eichel’s AAV was lower. 
 

If Boldy, Rossi and two firsts are the return, Boldy will be on his ELC for two more years and Rossi will be on His for three. The Two First Rounders would still be on their ELCs when Eichel’s Deal Expires. With Eichel having five years left that’s essentially only two seasons of having to be concerned about the retained money, which would probably be around 2 to 2.5 Million. The downside is the Sabres(Yeah right) might be a legitimate cup contender in 4-5 years and need that extra space. 
 

That being said, if that’s the best deal on the table and they land bonafide Top Line Prospects in Boldy and Rossi I would make the deal. 

I still really like the potential for a Minnesota trade with Boldy and Rossi.  I think the picture may become clearer if and when Kaprizov signs with them.  That will determine how much salary comes back to the Sabres or is retained in an Eichel deal.  I just see Minnesota getting a real benefit from adding Eichel.  Vegas too (they could really use him this season).

Rangers and Anaheim - great if they are in it to keep the price high but I don't understand their desire to sell off future star assets for Eichel.  Maybe that's one of the reasons that the Rangers rumored trade pieces have been underwhelming.

It's definitely been quiet lately though.   

[Brawndo]

5 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

It really seems that the Sabres are going to have to retain some salary on Jack in order to get something of value in return.

A question for the CBA gurus out there, or anyone else that knows ...

Retaining salary is that just a cap thing, or do the Sabres actually have to pay the $?

I believe they actually pay the money 

[dudacek]

22 minutes ago, Digger said:

 

Rangers and Anaheim - great if they are in it to keep the price high but I don't understand their desire to sell off future star assets for Eichel.  Maybe that's one of the reasons that the Rangers rumored trade pieces have been underwhelming.

It's definitely been quiet lately though.   

The Rangers best players are:

• Panarin 29
• Zibanejad 28
• Fox 23
• Kreider 30
• Shesterkin 25

They just acquired Ryan Reaves, 34, and Barclay Goodrow, 28. Trouba is 27 and Strome 28.

Their window is tied to Panarin. That's why trading a good young piece makes sense, especially since Eichel is young and good enough to fit with any age group.

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

In terms of enough time, is the McBeane analogy apt? In year one, they cleaned house to a fair extent and unexpectedly took the team to the playoffs. In year 2, a step back. In year 3, the playoffs again. Year 4 — contenders. Or is NHL vs. NFL too much apples vs. oranges?

Adams does seem to be doing a pretty good BB impression.

If Adams follows the McBeane model of rebuilding with the players that fit what they want to accomplish and culling out the players that don't fit in with their blueprint for the type of roster they want to construct I believe that this roster can be remade in two to three years. Although the Sabres have and will shed some of their established core players the GM will not be starting from scratch. We do have a young core to build around. And we have a few good players in the AHL pipeline who are close to being ready i.e. a year or two away. 

One of the main reasons that the Bills have been able to make a rather rapid turnaround is because their drafting has been solid. For the most part there is nothing dazzling about their selections that have included a number of value picks in the mid-rounds. And if you review their free agent pickups they are players who fit in well. Other than Diggs I can't recall a high profile free agent acquisition or trade exchange. 

In general I like would Adams has done. He's had some tough luck that he couldn't control. Jack being injured and thus being devalued on the market hurt with bringing in some good pieces. And Ullmark upping his contract demands with us beyond his value created a big hole at the backstop position. To Adams credit although keeping Ullmark was important his value demands didn't match his talent level. That showed good discipline and judgment on the part of the GM.

The big issue is whether the owners will be willing to give this regime the time needed to do what is required to do to successfully rework this roster. 

 

[triumph_communes]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

If Adams follows the McBeane model of rebuilding with the players that fit what they want to accomplish and culling out the players that don't fit in with their blueprint for the type of roster they want to construct I believe that this roster can be remade in two to three years. Although the Sabres have and will shed some of their established core players the GM will not be starting from scratch. We do have a young core to build around. And we have a few good players in the AHL pipeline who are close to being ready i.e. a year or two away. 

One of the main reasons that the Bills have been able to make a rather rapid turnaround is because their drafting has been solid. For the most part there is nothing dazzling about their selections that have included a number of value picks in the mid-rounds. And if you review their free agent pickups they are players who fit in well. Other than Diggs I can't recall a high profile free agent acquisition or trade exchange. 

In general I like would Adams has done. He's had some tough luck that he couldn't control. Jack being injured and thus being devalued on the market hurt with bringing in some good pieces. And Ullmark upping his contract demands with us beyond his value created a big hole at the backstop position. To Adams credit although keeping Ullmark was important his value demands didn't match his talent level. That showed good discipline and judgment on the part of the GM.

The big issue is whether the owners will be willing to give this regime the time needed to do what is required to do to successfully rework this roster. 

 

The drafting hasn’t been that good. Average. Hell, most say Allen was a huge reach and they have been extremely poor reaching for almost all their picks. Most of the difference makers came from trades/UFA.

 

It’s the type of players drafted are all team players and mesh well together. The group is greater than the sum of individuals. And it shows. 

 

Leadership is actually a thing. People who think leadership is just a catch phrase or comes with talent don’t get it. The Bills have it. 

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, Brawndo said:

https://www.thefourthperiod.com/pagnotta/waiting-game-continues-for-eichel

 

From David Pagnotta. 
 

He mentions the Sabres might be willing to retain some salary to get the return they want. 
 

Mike Russo of the Athletic mentioned the Wild might be inclined to jump back in if Eichel’s AAV was lower. 
 

If Boldy, Rossi and two firsts are the return, Boldy will be on his ELC for two more years and Rossi will be on His for three. The Two First Rounders would still be on their ELCs when Eichel’s Deal Expires. With Eichel having five years left that’s essentially only two seasons of having to be concerned about the retained money, which would probably be around 2 to 2.5 Million. The downside is the Sabres(Yeah right) might be a legitimate cup contender in 4-5 years and need that extra space. 
 

That being said, if that’s the best deal on the table and they land bonafide Top Line Prospects in Boldy and Rossi I would make the deal. 

If this deal is as described and the Sabres refused to retain some of Jack's salary I will be upset and disillusioned to the extent of considering walking away. As you stated the Sabres may be 4 yrs or so away from being a cup contender but at least there will be some hope about the prospects for this franchise. Just because a team isn't a legitimate cup contending team doesn't mean that it can't be an entertaining and competitive team. 

[JohnC]

6 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

The drafting hasn’t been that good. Average. Hell, most say Allen was a huge reach and they have been extremely poor reaching for almost all their picks. Most of the difference makers came from trades/UFA.

 

It’s the type of players drafted are all team players and mesh well together. The group is greater than the sum of individuals. And it shows. 

 

Leadership is actually a thing. People who think leadership is just a catch phrase or comes with talent don’t get it. The Bills have it. 

I disagree with your evaluation of the draft. As you noted they drafted players who fit in well with their system and philosophy. It's not glitzy but it is sound. That's the plan that is being followed. The execution is exceptional. That's good drafting. 

[Digger]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

The Rangers best players are:

• Panarin 29
• Zibanejad 28
• Fox 23
• Kreider 30
• Shesterkin 25

They just acquired Ryan Reaves, 34, and Barclay Goodrow, 28. Trouba is 27 and Strome 28.

Their window is tied to Panarin. That's why trading a good young piece makes sense, especially since Eichel is young and good enough to fit with any age group.

Okay I guess that you're right with the Rangers.  They should be ready to win soon or now given the roster ages.  I guess that I just saw Lafreniere, Kakko and K'Andre Miller meshing in pretty well with their current team and switching Zibanejad for Eichel (to manage the salary cap) doesn't seem to me to be the best way to upgrade their team.

Would you make the trade if you were the Rangers GM and if so what would you offer up to get it done?