Don Granato Interim Coach for Sabres/Ellis and Girardi to the Bench. Steve Smith Fired

[Marvin]

5 hours ago, sabremike said:

There's a Tim Graham article from last year on The Athletic that might be of interest on this topic.

I read it.  I know several Bruce Waynes and Paul Daggets from friends of mine.  I can't think of why Pegula's behaviour was significantly different from them.  If I could find a pattern of behaviours outside of norm, let alone wildly outside of the norm, I would give this article more weight.

This does not condone what he has done; it is more a reflection of the practicalities of how most of the extremely wealthy self-made do things.  And until this country changes what it values, I want NYS to cater to people like them.

[Thorny]

17 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

How is Jbot 0 for 15?  Isn't Bryson a Jbot pick? Aren't Johnson and Portillo doing very well in college and have bright futures? Aren't Samuelsson, UPL and Laaksonen all doing well for Rochester and look to have NHL futures sooner then later? How does that equate to 0 - 15.  Isn't the goal of the draft to find future NHL players? 

He was saying 0/15 out of the CHL in rounds 2-7

Adams so far following that trend, but he's had few picks so we have to wait and see more

[Marvin]

8 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

How is Jbot 0 for 15?  Isn't Bryson a Jbot pick? Aren't Johnson and Portillo doing very well in college and have bright futures? Aren't Samuelsson, UPL and Laaksonen all doing well for Rochester and look to have NHL futures sooner then later? How does that equate to 0 - 15.  Isn't the goal of the draft to find future NHL players? 

I am a harsh GMJB critic, but it is early to be too churlish for most of his later drafts.

Having said that, @LGR4GM is correct about his bias.  I wonder what we may have missed out on in the long run.  Maybe this is the problem we have had in acquiring depth.

[GASabresIUFAN]

3 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

I am a harsh GMJB critic, but it is early to be too churlish for most of his later drafts.

Having said that, @LGR4GM is correct about his bias.  I wonder what we may have missed out on in the long run.  Maybe this is the problem we have had in acquiring depth.

given TM's "success" in draft CHL players (12 in rds 2-7) and finding only Brendan Lemieux, I'd say we didn't much at all.

[Marvin]

5 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

given TM's "success" in draft CHL players (12 in rds 2-7) and finding only Brendan Lemieux, I'd say we didn't much at all.

GMTM's drafting is an exceedingly low bar.  I am also quite harsh about him too -- especially spending his draft capital like he had infinite resources.

I was measuring against a "normal" GM.  And we have been sub-par since the early 2000's.

[Thorny]

14 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

given TM's "success" in draft CHL players (12 in rds 2-7) and finding only Brendan Lemieux, I'd say we didn't much at all.

Impossible to say really cause so much depends on who is doing the drafting. 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

How is Jbot 0 for 15?  Isn't Bryson a Jbot pick? Aren't Johnson and Portillo doing very well in college and have bright futures? Aren't Samuelsson, UPL and Laaksonen all doing well for Rochester and look to have NHL futures sooner then later? How does that equate to 0 - 15.  Isn't the goal of the draft to find future NHL players? 

You missed the context of the 0-15 number. 

You're all missing the forest through the trees by focusing on a specific league as opposed to talent. 

You can go 0 for 100 for all I care in the league of your choice as long as it's not based on the league but on the talent. 

[Thorny]

40 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

You missed the context of the 0-15 number. 

You're all missing the forest through the trees by focusing on a specific league as opposed to talent. 

You can go 0 for 100 for all I care in the league of your choice as long as it's not based on the league but on the talent. 

Definitely. No one is missing the forest through the trees. 

The idea is that a league is being actively ignored, potentially, in the later rounds, due to the "longer control" dynamic. That's exactly the reason Botterill is quoted as saying he did it. Adams may not have that bias at all, he's only had one draft. But so far that particular thing that happened the previous drafts before Adams happened again. Could just be a coincidence. 

Where opinion comes in on my part is that I don't think it would be a good strategy to actively rule out the biggest developmental league in the world after the first round, on principle. I'm ok with a leaning but an absolute avoidance seems like too much to me, personally, and 0/15 is a pretty strong case that Botterill was pretty adamant. 

Adams is only at 0/4. But that does make 0 for the last 19 organization wide and I'm interested in that. 

If we knew they were open to CHL guys in later rounds, but just happened to rate a different league player as "BPA", that's fine, it doesn't matter at all. I just think that's unlikely to have been what happened under Botterill. He said himself he had the leanings in later rounds. 

Adams is TBD. You are absolutely correct that there are still already apparent differences in how they draft. 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Thorny

[Thorny]

There are a ton of articles out there btw detailing how Botterill approached the draft this way. 

https://www.radio.com/wgr550/articles/news/sabres-botterill-was-calculated-getting-players-he-targeted

 "It seemed like Jason Botterill and his staff were targeting some players so they moved up twice thanks to trades with Vancouver and Detroit. On Day 2 of the draft, there were going to be no CHL players taken by Buffalo like No. 1 pick Dylan Cozens, and that was by design. As far as getting the players he wanted, Botterill said, “There was a grouping of guys and we were just a little concerned that as we went through the draft there were certain guys that we did want to target. That was the flexibility we had with multiple late round picks.”

[GASabresIUFAN]

Honestly after the second round you are looking at guys that have some specific NHL type skill be it speed, hockey IQ, size, shot etc.  VO is the poster child for that. He had a NHL shot and decent wheels, but he was small and there were other issues (still area).  So while I agree that ignoring the CHL completely is likely a mistake, I can fully understand why a team would want to focus on European and College guys. 

I would be interested in seeing the how many guys were drafted from the various leagues from 2007-2016 after the second round and hoe many played 200 games (100 games for goalies) or more in the NHL (or are established NHL players for more recent drafts) and break down the success rate for each location CHL vs USA vs Europe.

 

[Ducky]

Tell whichever GM that wants Hall that you will retain 50% for a 4th rounder but they take KO at full value.

[Marvin]

CBA experts:

Is it possible for the Sabres to trade KO with retention and then buy-out the retention?

[Curt]

Just now, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

CBA experts:

Is it possible for the Sabres to trade KO with retention and then buy-out the retention?

Not an expert, but I’m 97% sure that the answer is no.

[Claude Balls]

Does every thread turn into a GM debate?

[Andrew Amerk]

1 hour ago, Claude Balls said:

Does every thread turn into a GM debate?

I don’t think I’ve seen many Ford vs GM debates on here. 

[Thorny]

17 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Honestly after the second round you are looking at guys that have some specific NHL type skill be it speed, hockey IQ, size, shot etc.  VO is the poster child for that. He had a NHL shot and decent wheels, but he was small and there were other issues (still area).  So while I agree that ignoring the CHL completely is likely a mistake, I can fully understand why a team would want to focus on European and College guys. 

I would be interested in seeing the how many guys were drafted from the various leagues from 2007-2016 after the second round and hoe many played 200 games (100 games for goalies) or more in the NHL (or are established NHL players for more recent drafts) and break down the success rate for each location CHL vs USA vs Europe.

 

I can agree with this. And as mentioned, the fact they've gone outside the CHL 19 straight times after round 1 makes it a trend to watch, for that exact reason. No other NHL team is close to that. 

Like you said, at the end of the day it's about the hit rate 

Edited March 20, 2021 by Thorny

[inkman]

23 hours ago, Claude Balls said:

Does every thread turn into a GM debate?

It’s tiring 

[North Buffalo]

Hope the Sabres are running gassers during their time off.

PS Practice!

[Doohickie]

8 hours ago, North Buffalo said:

Hope the Sabres are running gassers during their time off.

PS Practice!

Seems like it.  From today's practice report:

Quote

"I think just keeping a lot of movement out there, making sure we're playing with a fast pace, keeping our speed up," Thompson said. "And he stresses offense quite a bit. I think that's something we've been struggling with. We've got to find ways to score."

Forwards

4 Taylor Hall - 24 Dylan Cozens - 23 Sam Reinhart
68 Victor Olofsson - 12 Eric Staal / 20 Cody Eakin - 72 Tage Thompson
53 Jeff Skinner - 27 Curtis Lazar - 37 Casey Mittelstadt
74 Rasmus Asplund - 15 Riley Sheahan - 21 Kyle Okposo

Also practicing: 13 Tobias Rieder, 17 Steven Fogarty, 49 C.J. Smith 

Defensemen

78 Jacob Bryson - 55 Rasmus Ristolainen
26 Rasmus Dahlin - 33 Colin Miller
10 Henri Jokiharju - 62 Brandon Montour
44 Matt Irwin - 88 Brandon Davidson

Goalies

40 Carter Hutton
31 Dustin Tokarski
30 Michael Houser

Risto/Bryson looks like a formidable defensive tandem.  I'm a little disappointed that Rieder is an extra.  He seems to bring that hustle the Sabres need and generally plays smart hockey.

Edited March 21, 2021 by Doohickie

[Sabres Fan in NS]

So, what's the new guy's record so far?

[Scottysabres]

On 3/19/2021 at 8:02 PM, Ducky said:

Tell whichever GM that wants Hall that you will retain 50% for a 4th rounder but they take KO at full value.

I would spend the 2nd rdr to get it done if necessary. He really does need to go, and that is sad. A team guy, just bad breaks on the health front.

[darksabre]

FWIW Don Granato's interview on WGR this morning is worth a listen. Definitely a different tone from him than Krueger. Talks about players being confused and anxious, which I thought was an interesting choice of words.

[Weave]

Have any of the most recent coaches not impressed us with their first few press conferences?   It seems like we could cut and past comments re: Bylsma’s, Housley, Krueger’s, first few pressers and they’d fit in this thread.

Call me cynical, but why do we keep doing this?

[darksabre]

6 minutes ago, Weave said:

Have any of the most recent coaches not impressed us with their first few press conferences?   It seems like we could cut and past comments re: Bylsma’s, Housley, Krueger’s, first few pressers and they’d fit in this thread.

Call me cynical, but why do we keep doing this?

Sure. I'm just sayin.

[dudacek]

14 minutes ago, Weave said:

Have any of the most recent coaches not impressed us with their first few press conferences?   It seems like we could cut and past comments re: Bylsma’s, Housley, Krueger’s, first few pressers and they’d fit in this thread.

Call me cynical, but why do we keep doing this?

Different voice is always interesting.

Did we really ever like the pressers from Housley and Bylsma?