Jeff Skinner - The Poll

[IKnowPhysics 1,083]

We have a Jeff Skinner thread:

 

We have a Ralph Krueger thread:

 

Thought we could use a poll.  See poll.  I intentionally didn't allow multiple choices.  Discuss here or in the respective threads.  It don't matter, none a' this matters.

[darksabre 4,299]

1. Don't know, don't care.

2. Don't know, don't care.

3. Don't know, don't care.

 

[Scottysabres 1,849]

Regarding the Jeff Skinner situation:

I ain't sayin' it was Aliens, but it was Aliens.

Edited February 25 by Scottysabres

[DarthEbriate 1,770]

Skinner's not a system poll; he's a man.

[Cal Naughton Jr 318]

Put Skinner on the Eichel line. They have great chemistry together. That’s what earned him that contract. It’s just weird that Ralph has barely even acknowledged that lineup

[LabattBlue 937]

1 - Ralph Krueger is at fault. Jeff Skinner is being mismanaged/misused.

2 - Jeff Skinner should play for the Buffalo Sabres as a top six forward.

3 - Ralph Krueger should no longer work for the Buffalo Sabres.

[nucci 406]

2 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

Regarding the Jeff Skinner situation:

I ain't sayin' it was Aliens, but it was Aliens.

 

[Doohickie 3,961]

I don't know either, but the optics are this:  Before Krueger got here, Skinner was a 40 goal scorer.  To me this has to be on Krueger.

I don't blame Skinner.  When he *does* play, he plays like Skinner always has:  Skates hard, probably too hard for the result.  Other than being a goal hound, he has little hockey sense.  But he showed that under the right conditions he can be a top goal scorer.  Not trying to put him in those circumstances is just madness.

It is true that the situation, signing Skins to a contract that's so large, is on management, but that's water under the bridge.  What's done is done.  A wise old coach said (probably many, but I can remember Lindy saying it), "You have to win with the team you've got."  We haven't had a coach since Lindy that could do that, and to varying degrees we've had the talent to be, well, better than doormats.

[dudacek 7,032]

Ralph Krueger should have given Jeff two weeks straight with Jack at some point over the past 50 games in order to see what would happen.

Jeff Skinner sucks, I never wanted him on my team, and his first three months in Buffalo were a mirage.

Framing this as "one of them has to go" as the reason why this team is good or bad is a false argument

[Sabre fan 136]

the team cannot score 5 on 5 and that is what Skinner was signed to do and what he does best. End of story...bye bye Ralphie (can't be soon enough)...

[darksabre 4,299]

I gots da polliosis 

[Trettioåtta 226]

1 hour ago, Sabre fan said:

the team cannot score 5 on 5 and that is what Skinner was signed to do and what he does best. End of story...bye bye Ralphie (can't be soon enough)...

Except when he's not doing it.

Lazar, never famed for his goal scoring, has managed 4 goals on the 4th line.

Jeff is on track for less than 6 points in an 82 game season. That is Andrew Peters territory. And Peters never saw PP time 

[Brawndo 5,807]

 

[Kruppstahl 1,036]

2 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

1 - Ralph Krueger is at fault. Jeff Skinner is being mismanaged/misused.

2 - Jeff Skinner should play for the Buffalo Sabres as a top six forward.

3 - Ralph Krueger should no longer work for the Buffalo Sabres.

Those are my 3 votes as well.

And for the record, Skinner's K is not tradeable, nor is it buy-outable.   

We are stuck with him and for a long time.

Have to make him happy and he must play top 6.

Easiest way to fix this is to put him on line with Eichel and move VO to accommodate that, while VO retains his spot on the PP1.

There's something weird going on with Skinner and Ralph; some kind of personality conflict or something.

 

 

[That Aud Smell 1,388]

3 minutes ago, Kruppstahl said:

There's something weird going on with Skinner and Ralph; some kind of personality conflict or something.

This theory is gathering steam on Sabres Twitter. Is it all just inferential? Or is there something sourced to indicate that RaKru has beef with Guy Smiley?

[drnkirishone 151]

the few shifts Skinner has been on Eichels wing he has simply looked like he has on other wings. If i am not mistaken didn't he start the season on Staals wing? that was a top 6 role that he played his way out of

[darksabre 4,299]

2 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

This theory is gathering steam on Sabres Twitter. Is it all just inferential? Or is there something sourced to indicate that RaKru has beef with Guy Smiley?

The Twitter people are just as big of doofuses as we are. I think we should be able to come up with much more intriguing theories than them though. 

[North Buffalo 1,486]

Its a right wing plot ... no I cant type the f'd up reply that is in my head... pretty much would offend everyone.

9 minutes ago, darksabre said:

The Twitter people are just as big of doofuses as we are. I think we should be able to come up with much more intriguing theories than them though. 

 

 

Edited February 25 by North Buffalo

[Torpedo Forecheck 398]

Hilarious! One of the choices, Ralph Krueger should be promoted LMFAO, and people voted for this!

The Peter Principle at its finest.

[IKnowPhysics 1,083]

Sit rep.

The Skinner history:

• Amasses three 30G seasons and three 20G seasons before Buffalo.  Establishes as one the top 15 5v5 goal scorers in the league with a career 1.08 5v5 G/60.
• Has a "down" year in CAR before his contract year (49P, 82GP), and inexplicably gets traded for beans (Pu, 2nd, 3rd, 6th).
• Has a career year in his first year with Buffalo under Housley (40G 23A).
  • He plays 18.5 min total TOI/GP and 3:05 PP min /GP. No PK time.
  • He plays 70% of his 5v5 ice time with Eichel and most of his PP time with Eichel.
  • He gets a 63% OZstart%.
  • His even strength goals per 60 is simply prolific at 1.34 EVG/60, leading the Sabres by far.
  • He leads Sabres, tied with Eichel, at 8PPG.
• Is signed to massive $9M x 8 year contract.
• Krueger takes over as coach. In 2019-2020:
  • He plays 16.5 min total TOI/GP and 2:29 PP min /GP.  No PK time.
  • He plays 13% of his time with Eichel. 
    • Half his time not centered by Eichel is with Johansson (43%).
    • The rest of his time not centered by Eichel or Johansson is centered by Sobotka, ERod, or Larsson (43% total).
  • He gets a 52% OZstart%.
  • Despite the lineup changes, Skinner still scores more even strength goals per 60 than any Sabre not named Dominik Kahun (who only played 6 games) at 1.08 EVG/60.  However, he scores 0PPG, despite most of Skinner's PP time being with Eichel.
  • Skinner records 14G 9A 23P in 59GP (19.5G 12.5A 32P in 82GP pace).
• In 2021 under Krueger:
  • His ice time plummets to 13.5 min total TOI/GP and 1:32 PP min/GP.  No PK time.
  • Skinner and Eichel have played about 30mins 5v5 together, comprising 18.5% of Skinner's 5v5 ice time.
    • They produced no GF and 1 GA, mostly favorable shots stats, and even HDCF%.
  • Skinner has played 91min 5v5 with Lazar.
    • They generated roughly even shots stats, but greatly favorable HDCF%.
  • Skinner has played about 30mins 5v5 with Staal.
    • Shots stats weren't good, but HDCF% was even.
  • He gets a 43% OZstart%.
  • Skinner's infamous stat line: 0G 1 A 1P in 14GP.

=========================================================================================

Something caused Ralph Krueger to change his usage of Jeff Skinner, not just when Krueger arrived, but specifically this season.  Staying with rational theories, wherein Krueger sees something about Skinner's on-ice performance that drives his decisions.  It could be he's focusing (or hyperfocusing) on one stat (even though this approach is likely irrational).  Jeff's HDCF/60 and HDCA/60 varies strongly with different centers.

5v5 HDCF/60 - HDCA/60 of Skinner with different centers:

Eichel 5.82 - 5.82 (+0)

Staal 12.1 - 12.1 (+0)

Lazar 9.81 - 5.23 (+4.58)

If you only focus on the differential of HDCF/60-HDCA/60, you would make the case that Skinner-Lazar is more productive when Lazar and Skinner are together. 

Now decide, after the last two games, if Casey Mittelstadt or Jeff Skinner should play with Curtis Lazar:

Skinner 9.81 - 5.23 (+4.58)

Mittelstadt 18.63-13.97 (+4.66)

But I'm inventing stat-based reasons why Krueger would justify this usage.  I'm positive we're not getting all of the information, even when digging into the stats and usage. 

=========================================================================================

Other irrational, but very possible theories:

• Jeff has a bad attitude.
• Krueger really doesn't know what he's doing.
• Sabres are trying to make Skinner want to fail to report to the team, a la Berglund, allowing Buffalo to escape the contract.
• Sabres are trying to make Skinner waive his NMC.
  • NMC players must be protected in the Seattle expansion draft, July 21st.  If you wanted to protect someone else over Skinner, you would basically have to get him to waive NMC and then trade him.
  • It would also be possible for Skinner to waive his NMC specifically for Seattle in a pre-arranged Buffalo deal with Seattle.  Maybe Seattle agrees to take Skinner and no other Sabre and does or does not return assets to Buffalo; maybe Buffalo keeps some salary.
  • Note that Jason Botterill, who signed Skinner to his massive contract, is now the AGM in Seattle.  Also note that Ron Francis is currently the GM of Seattle and was in the hockey dept of CAR for years and years, including the GM position from 2014-2018 while Skinner was a player.  Francis was no longer GM when Skinner was traded.

We can stab at Krueger about what appears to be ineptitude, but I honestly don't think the man is some dumb moron that makes decisions without a plan.  It might be good execution of a bad plan or bad execution of a good plan or good/bad execution of a secret plan, but I don't think anyone jerks around a $72M player on a whim.  There's something going on and no one's saying what it is.

 

[IKnowPhysics 1,083]

Also:

[SHAAAUGHT!!! 109]

It's like signing Ovie and them putting him in front of the net on the PP.  You're not going to get the same numbers.  

[Doohickie 3,961]

Maybe... after the Covid shutdown, a team rule was levied that anyone not following protocols/protections, would sit .... 3 games?  or something?  And Skins got caught.

[SwampD 3,490]

2 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Maybe... after the Covid shutdown, a team rule was levied that anyone not following protocols/protections, would sit .... 3 games?  or something?  And Skins got caught.

That wouldn’t elicit a response from his agent.

[SABRES 0311 984]

Skinner and Eichel both not up to expectations. Here’s a crazy idea, put them back together for a while.  What’s the worst that could happen, you lose a game?  Been there done that.