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spndnchz

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League is becoming too watered down.   3rd and 4th line guys belong in the AHL.   

 

Coaching is becoming more important than talent.

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League is becoming too watered down.   3rd and 4th line guys belong in the AHL.   

 

Coaching is becoming more important than talent.

 

I have said before that contraction, not expansion, is what the NHL needs, and I stick by it.

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I have said before that contraction, not expansion, is what the NHL needs, and I stick by it.

 

I don't see contraction as a way the NHL improves its bottom line.  I understand the concept of concentrating talent onto fewer teams with the perception that it will improve the game.  At the same time, there are more people playing hockey than ever before and that's likely to boost the overall talent pool making it less necessary.  We're just now beginning to see this expansion of talent across the league.  In the past it was far less often so many young players rocketed to the top of the leagues each year.  Look at the rookie class this year and it's impressive.  

 

I hope they cap at the number of teams they will have after Seattle and then just let a few franchises move around as needed.  32 teams is a good number and makes it even all around.

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I don't see contraction as a way the NHL improves its bottom line.  I understand the concept of concentrating talent onto fewer teams with the perception that it will improve the game.  At the same time, there are more people playing hockey than ever before and that's likely to boost the overall talent pool making it less necessary.  We're just now beginning to see this expansion of talent across the league.  In the past it was far less often so many young players rocketed to the top of the leagues each year.  Look at the rookie class this year and it's impressive.  

 

I hope they cap at the number of teams they will have after Seattle and then just let a few franchises move around as needed.  32 teams is a good number and makes it even all around.

 

It would not improve the bottom line.

 

It would improve the game, though.

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It would not improve the bottom line.

 

It would improve the game, though.

 

That was my point.  I don't believe the game will be improved that dramatically especially in the coming years.  The growth of hockey has occurred over the past 10-12 years not only in the US but in other countries.  What we are seeing is the talent pool expanding because more kids are playing it.  The more opportunities given to develop the greater the game at the highest level becomes.

 

I think you can make an argument to contract something into a small group of "all-star" teams but that's also not realistic for business.

 

I don't believe today's 3rd liner is the equivalent of the 3rd liner ability from even 10 years ago.  I think it's improved.  Statistically it might not look much different but skill wise I think it's there.  I think it's going to only get better as this up and coming talent pushes out players from even the worst teams.

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That was my point.  I don't believe the game will be improved that dramatically especially in the coming years.  The growth of hockey has occurred over the past 10-12 years not only in the US but in other countries.  What we are seeing is the talent pool expanding because more kids are playing it.  The more opportunities given to develop the greater the game at the highest level becomes.

 

I think you can make an argument to contract something into a small group of "all-star" teams but that's also not realistic for business.

 

I don't believe today's 3rd liner is the equivalent of the 3rd liner ability from even 10 years ago.  I think it's improved.  Statistically it might not look much different but skill wise I think it's there.  I think it's going to only get better as this up and coming talent pushes out players from even the worst teams.

 

Here is where our opinions diverge.

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25 years ago, there was a big difference in ability between 3rd/4th line NHL regulars and the better AHL players.

 

Today, 3rd/4th line NHL players are on par, talent-wise, with the better AHL players.    And that's not good for the product.

Edited by pi2000
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25 years ago, there was a big difference in ability between 3rd/4th line NHL regulars and the better AHL players.

 

Today, 3rd/4th line NHL players are on par, talent-wise, with the better AHL players.    And that's not good for the product.

 

So, it's the discrepancy between those two tiers, not the actual quality of the players that matters?

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So, it's the discrepancy between those two tiers, not the actual quality of the players that matters?

Maybe that's what matters but I also think that gap has closed too. Perhaps it's more due to rule calling but 4th line and 3rd line scrubs can routinely neutralize McDavid via hooking/holding/interfering with impunity, but also because they aren't Andrew Peters getting regular ice time on the best team in the league. 

 

I miss our awesome forwards clowning lugs like Hatcher in the playoffs. 

 

Edit: Sorry I'm referring to a different gap, that between 1st liners and 3rd/4th. Didn't follow the AHL comments. Don't think that matters very much with respect to the entertainment of this league, especially not when it's more talented than it's ever been.

Edited by Randall Flagg
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I think talent is a pyramid: 10 guys in the top tier, 30 in the next, then 75 (numbers for illustration purposes only)

There are probably 500 guys on the 4th line tier and only 200 of those guys in the NHL.

Really, how significant are the gaps from Girgensons to Josefson to Cal O’Reilly to Griffith to Porter?

Edited by dudacek
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25 years ago, there was a big difference in ability between 3rd/4th line NHL regulars and the better AHL players.

 

Today, 3rd/4th line NHL players are on par, talent-wise, with the better AHL players.    And that's not good for the product.

 

It's not because the the 3rd and 4th liners are worse.  It's because the overall talent levels have gone up.  Given the larger pool of talent to choose from there are bound to be more who fit in the same general area.  I believe the top tier has grown, but every tier below that has grown even more.

 

 

As far as what is on the Sabres.  There are two points to address.  I didn't say the talent had permeated the league as a whole.  I said it is growing and it will.  Also, the Sabres are purposefully keeping younger players in Rochester and have iced UFAs so they can develop.  How good are they?  Don't know.  We'll find out.  Just because the overall talent levels have improved doesn't mean there aren't lesser talents and it doesn't mean they aren't on the Sabres.

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Anyone here playing close attention to Philly? If so, how are they playing so well?  I thought of them as an average to below average team, so what am I missing?

 

I just looked closely at the standings, and they are only 1 point away from leading the division, 9 points up on the last wildcard spot, and have won something like 11 of the last 12 or 13 games.

 

Provorov is only 21 year old, but he is leading the team in ice time, is he really that good of a player?

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Anyone here playing close attention to Philly? If so, how are they playing so well?  I thought of them as an average to below average team, so what am I missing?

 

I just looked closely at the standings, and they are only 1 point away from leading the division, 9 points up on the last wildcard spot, and have won something like 11 of the last 12 or 13 games.

 

Provorov is only 21 year old, but he is leading the team in ice time, is he really that good of a player?

Giroux and Voracek are deadly, Couturier is an elite defensive center who happens to be having a career year scoring a point per game, Simmonds is his usual self, and they've got some good young depth pieces like Patrick and Konecny who are starting to take advantage of the cushy minutes they get behind those guys. 

 

On D, they have 2-3 very good young players (and a bunch of garbage that will keep them from going too far, along with in goal). Once they get the rest of their nice young stable of defensemen integrated over the corpses, they'll be incredible if Giroux and Voracek are still good. 

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Apparently you can still buy tickets as of right now.  Sheesh.  

Currently watching Stars-Blues.  Dallas D is getting torn up, but Ben Bishop is stopping pucks, still 0-0.  Amazing concept.  

 

Yeah, I'm a tad bitter.

 

Bitter?  You? No.

 

I like the new avatar, in a ha ha way, but should the charging Buffalo not be upside down as well?

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