Buffalo Bills 2017-18

[SwampD]

The worst part about firing Whaley now is that (whether you want to admit it or not) it will limit the pool of GM candidates who are willing to take the job. GM's usually like to put their own people in place and they can't do that with the owner backing McDermott and basically handing him the keys. The new GM will basically be decided on by a 3 person committee of Pegula, Russ Brandon, and McDermott. Not exactly a confidence inspring panel in my eyes.

Unless we already know who our new GM is.

http://www.12up.com/posts/4940056-breaking-bills-fire-gm-following-fishy-circumstances?a_aid=40396

I love it. Collecting picks and cheating. We'll beat those Patriots yet.

Edited April 30, 2017 by SwampD

[Weave]

Unless we already know who our new GM is.

http://www.12up.com/posts/4940056-breaking-bills-fire-gm-following-fishy-circumstances?a_aid=40396

I love it. Collecting picks and cheating. We'll beat those Patriots yet.

 

#character

 

:devil:

[tom webster]

Well, one man's "tough, pointed, well-constructed" question is another man's "obnoxious, antagonistic and pointless, because it won't get answered and only serves to entrench the questioner's isolation from and lack of sources in the organization" question.

 

Having said that, I too am concerned about hiring a coach first, and then a GM. In this case, I think there are mitigating factors -- namely, wanting to keep the benefits of the year's worth of scouting -- but it is a concern nevertheless.

 

I also think the plan since hiring McD was to unload DW after the draft and bring in a new GM who is sympatico with McD. That of course raises the question again of whether too much trust is being granted to McD.

 

I'm cautiously optimistic but we'll see.

I think people are worrying too much about titles and procedures and how things used to be done. These aren't family run little hobbies anymore. They are billion dollar businesses. There is no right way to run a company. Bill Parcells used to say that there is no harm in making mistakes, the success comes from admitting your mistakes and moving on. Even if you believe TP is a meddling idiot you have to acknowledge the likelihood that even he will eventually luck into the perfect home hire. If you believe, like me, that he is a smart businessman who knows what he is doing, you call that luck perseverance.!

[NewinBuffalo]

Unless we already know who our new GM is.

http://www.12up.com/posts/4940056-breaking-bills-fire-gm-following-fishy-circumstances?a_aid=40396

I love it. Collecting picks and cheating. We'll beat those Patriots yet.

 

Did that article say whaley will be remembered for his failed draft pick of cardale jones and massive contract of ...taylor.  Are those the things haha?

[Eleven]

Did that article say whaley will be remembered for his failed draft pick of cardale jones and massive contract of ...taylor.  Are those the things haha?

 

It mentioned neither, which you easily could have learned from clicking on the link, haha?

[3putt]

It mentioned neither, which you easily could have learned from clicking on the link, haha?

It cited both as fails DW will be remembered for.

 

As for Whaley, he'll be remembered for the massive contract extension to QB Tyrod Taylor and his seemingly failed draft pick of QB Cardale Jones. That and not bringing the Bills to playoffs during his tenure.

[JujuFish]

It mentioned neither, which you easily could have learned from clicking on the link, haha?

Er, it actually said both of those things.

[Eleven]

Er, it actually said both of those things.

 

It's been updated.  What can I say?

[inkman]

As for Whaley, he'll be remembered for the massive contract extension to QB Tyrod Taylor and his seemingly failed draft pick of QB Cardale Jones.

Tyrod is in the bottom half of starting QB pay and no one cares about Cardale Jones. His biggest failures have been trading up to get Sammy Watkins and not tendering Hogan or Gillislee with high enough picks.

[Jsixspd]

Do you think they should've kept DW?

 

Do you think DW is unhappy that TP gave him a fat extension, so that he will continue to be paid a multimillion dollar salary for the next few years?

 

Do you think DW thought that he couldn't be fired for poor performance?

 

Do you think TP should've announced publicly a year ago that DW might get fired if the Bills continued to stink and look like a Mickey Mouse organization in the process?

 

How do you think the real world works?

No, Whaley should have been canned when Pegula first bought the team;  best to purge the old regime - a lesson he should have, but clearly didn't, learn from Pegula's own experience with the Sabres.

 

But another great time that Whaley could have been fired - immediately after the disastrous Rex Ryan press conference, which was an embarrassment.  

As to the real world - yeah, the owner isn't necessarily going to throw even people he's clearly displeased with under the bus.

 

But on the other hand, perhaps Pegula's public praise of Whaley ought to have been a bit more, shall we say 'muted',  if CHARACTER,  Pegula's favorite buzzword, actually extends to include himself?  Otherwise, one comes across as hypocritical, and  lacking in CHARACTER?

 

And if he actually WAS all that pleased with Whaley a couple months ago, then Pegula is revealed as a fickle, temperamental and mercurial individual - it doesn't fill me with confidence in Pegula's ability to build a quality organization 

 

That being said - I'd agree with your statements - if there was some grand strategy behind Terry Pegula's actions - I just don't think there is - he's making this up on the fly - and it comes across disjointed and haphazard.  

 

So what's next? McDermott , a guy who hasn't coached a single game yet,  is going to be part of the search team for his new boss?  

 

And how many quality GMs want to take a job where the HC is already selected - and where there's a track record of the GM not having much input in who the coach is, anyway?  And of course, another negative for a new GM - the draft is already over;  I would think most GMs would prefer to be hired in winter, so they could be involved in the draft.  

 

 

[Thwomp!]

This is a very valid concern IMHO. I like what I've seen of McD but one could easily conclude that TP cottoned to him in his interview and rashly gave him the keys to the entire operation without him demonstrating the competence to justify the move.

 

Just leaked:  The Bills new fight song:

 

 

 

I've already given up on the Bills and the NFL for a couple years now, but if the Sabres go this direction (and based on Terry's comments they will), I will be similarly disengaged from the Sabres.  I don't support a theocracy in government or society, so why would I support one in my sports teams?  Religion as a criteria and a specific "plus" in potential team personnel hirings is a big red flag for me and something I'm not interested in supporting, no matter the ultimate team results.  Luckily, based on Terry's ownership history so far, I'm not really concerned about successful results occurring from his stated hiring criteria.

[Eleven]

Just leaked:  The Bills new fight song:

 

 

 

I've already given up on the Bills and the NFL for a couple years now, but if the Sabres go this direction (and based on Terry's comments they will), I will be similarly disengaged from the Sabres.  I don't support a theocracy in government or society, so why would I support one in my sports teams?  Religion as a criteria and a specific "plus" in potential team personnel hirings is a big red flag for me and something I'm not interested in supporting, no matter the ultimate team results.  Luckily, based on Terry's ownership history so far, I'm not really concerned about successful results occurring from his stated hiring criteria.

 

If you're not satisfied with the previous debunking of this myth, you never will be, I suppose.

[Huckleberry]

Just leaked:  The Bills new fight song:

 

 

 

I've already given up on the Bills and the NFL for a couple years now, but if the Sabres go this direction (and based on Terry's comments they will), I will be similarly disengaged from the Sabres.  I don't support a theocracy in government or society, so why would I support one in my sports teams?  Religion as a criteria and a specific "plus" in potential team personnel hirings is a big red flag for me and something I'm not interested in supporting, no matter the ultimate team results.  Luckily, based on Terry's ownership history so far, I'm not really concerned about successful results occurring from his stated hiring criteria.

 

Aren't some of us taking this to far ? I doubt religion plays any part in the decissions being made by pegula.

[Eleven]

Aren't some of us taking this to far ? I doubt religion plays any part in the decissions being made by pegula.

 

You know how some religious people are completely overzealous about their religion and their evangelism?

 

There are people on the other side who are just as overzealous.  They see a religious agenda everywhere.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Eleven

[nfreeman]

No, Whaley should have been canned when Pegula first bought the team;  best to purge the old regime - a lesson he should have, but clearly didn't, learn from Pegula's own experience with the Sabres.

 

But another great time that Whaley could have been fired - immediately after the disastrous Rex Ryan press conference, which was an embarrassment.  

As to the real world - yeah, the owner isn't necessarily going to throw even people he's clearly displeased with under the bus.

 

But on the other hand, perhaps Pegula's public praise of Whaley ought to have been a bit more, shall we say 'muted',  if CHARACTER,  Pegula's favorite buzzword, actually extends to include himself?  Otherwise, one comes across as hypocritical, and  lacking in CHARACTER?

 

And if he actually WAS all that pleased with Whaley a couple months ago, then Pegula is revealed as a fickle, temperamental and mercurial individual - it doesn't fill me with confidence in Pegula's ability to build a quality organization 

 

That being said - I'd agree with your statements - if there was some grand strategy behind Terry Pegula's actions - I just don't think there is - he's making this up on the fly - and it comes across disjointed and haphazard.  

 

So what's next? McDermott , a guy who hasn't coached a single game yet,  is going to be part of the search team for his new boss?  

 

And how many quality GMs want to take a job where the HC is already selected - and where there's a track record of the GM not having much input in who the coach is, anyway?  And of course, another negative for a new GM - the draft is already over;  I would think most GMs would prefer to be hired in winter, so they could be involved in the draft.  

 

 

 

Whaley received his extension in January 2016 -- a solid 16 months ago.  He was entering the final year of his deal, so the extension prevented him from being a lame duck.  An extension in these circumstances is very common.

 

Here is what TP said at the time:

 

 

"We are pleased to announce a multi-year contract extension with our General Manager Doug Whaley," said Owner Terry Pegula.  "Doug has demonstrated an excellent eye for talent and has been an asset to the organization on many levels.  I look forward to working closely with Doug and Coach Ryan for many years to come."

 

 

That is hardly high praise -- and really could be characterized as muted.

 

As I and many others -- including many professional NFL writers -- have said, keeping DW and the scouting staff until after the draft was the logical move for the franchise.

 

I agree that DW (and RB, IMHO) should've been fired as soon as TP bought the team, just like he should've fired Darcy.  But TP doesn't believe in buying something and then firing everyone.  He believes in giving people a chance to prove themselves.  That doesn't make him a bad guy, or fickle, or lacking in character. 

 

Similarly, giving DW an extension entering his lame-duck year, praising him fairly moderately at the time and then firing him 16 months later (after 16 months of continued terrible performance) doesn't make him a bad guy, or fickle or lacking in character, nor does it mean the extension was an embarrassment.  It just means DW didn't do a good job, TP decided he'd given DW enough rope, and it was time to cut his losses and move on.

 

I think TP will have plenty of high-quality applicants for the GM job -- just as he's had for the Sabres' GM job.

 

 

 

I've already given up on the Bills and the NFL for a couple years now, but if the Sabres go this direction (and based on Terry's comments they will), I will be similarly disengaged from the Sabres.  I don't support a theocracy in government or society, so why would I support one in my sports teams?  Religion as a criteria and a specific "plus" in potential team personnel hirings is a big red flag for me and something I'm not interested in supporting, no matter the ultimate team results.  Luckily, based on Terry's ownership history so far, I'm not really concerned about successful results occurring from his stated hiring criteria.

 

What a tiresome and foolish meme this has become.

 

 

You know how some religious people are completely overzealous about their religion and their evangelism?

 

There are people on the other side who are just as overzealous.  They see a religious agenda everywhere.

 

Correct.

[Thwomp!]

If you're not satisfied with the previous debunking of this myth, you never will be, I suppose.

 

 

 

What a tiresome and foolish meme this has become.

 

 

What debunking?  There are absolutely examples of Terry stating religion as a criteria and/or a "plus" in someone's character when hiring them.  You may be fine with it, but it doesn't mean everyone has to be.  You also may overlook it because it fits your world view.

 

 

You know how some religious people are completely overzealous about their religion and their evangelism?

 

There are people on the other side who are just as overzealous.  They see a religious agenda everywhere.

 

This comparison is garbage.  I'll give as much proof as you do to prove it too, which is none.

[Swedesessed]

You know how some religious people are completely overzealous about their religion and their evangelism?

 

There are people on the other side who are just as overzealous.  They see a religious agenda everywhere.

 

 

Agree completely

[Eleven]

What debunking?  There are absolutely examples of Terry stating religion as a criteria and/or a "plus" in someone's character when hiring them.  You may be fine with it, but it doesn't mean everyone has to be.  You also may overlook it because it fits your world view.

 

 

 

This comparison is garbage.  I'll give as much proof as you do to prove it too, which is none.

 

There are no examples of him stating that religion was a criterion.  There are examples of him saying it was a plus in someone's character.

 

The debunking has been done and is getting tiresome, but I'll use Rex Ryan, once again, as my main example.

[nfreeman]

What debunking?  There are absolutely examples of Terry stating religion as a criteria and/or a "plus" in someone's character when hiring them.  You may be fine with it, but it doesn't mean everyone has to be.  You also may overlook it because it fits your world view.

 

 

Please provide a link to a quote from TP in which he said faith was a criterion.  If you are unable to do so (which you won't be able to, because he hasn't said this), then, based on the definition of "criteria," it doesn't seem like you can plausibly make the case that he is hiring people due to their religion.

[Drunkard]

There are no examples of him stating that religion was a criterion.  There are examples of him saying it was a plus in someone's character.

 

The debunking has been done and is getting tiresome, but I'll use Rex Ryan, once again, as my main example.

 

Maybe Pegula's value system is red wine > Jesus > other. Or maybe Rex played the game and used those Bible quotes that (I speculate) Russ slipped him when he told him to bring the wine.

 

For the record I think Russ's value system is whatever makes it easier to sell tickets or make money > what's good for team performance.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Drunkard

[Randall Flagg]

"He is a smart, thorough, decisive, faith-based winner." 

Is the quote everyone is referring to.

 

~3:30 in this video: http://www.twcnews.com/nys/buffalo/bills/2017/01/13/video--full-press-conference-with-new-bills-head-coach-sean-mcdermott.html

 

And he may have mentioned it another time or two, but this is the one I remember.

[Thwomp!]

Terry Pegula discusses the Bylsma hiring...

 

http://video.sabres.nhl.com/videocenter/console?catid=1373&id=826623&lang=en

"He is a very good christian man"  - Terry Pegula

 

The last two coaching hires have had the faith aspect thrown in there.  

 

Anyway, I was initially answering (sarcastically I know) Freeman's question of how a first time head coach has so much power within the organization within 3 months of being hired into his new position.  Religion plays a big factor whether you want to admit it or not or it wouldn't be brought up so prominently.

 

It may be ok with many, but it's not my cup of tea.

[Randall Flagg]

The last two coaching hires have had the faith aspect thrown in there.  

 

Anyway, I was initially answering (sarcastically I know) Freeman's question of how a first time head coach has so much power within the organization within 3 months of being hired into his new position.  Religion plays a big factor whether you want to admit it or not or it wouldn't be brought up so prominently.

 

It may be ok with many, but it's not my cup of tea.

It wasn't brought up prominently - Pegula spent 3 minutes talking about the great football mind he has and his relevant qualifications for the job and then mentioned it at the end. 

 

It didn't look great for Pegula to say it the way he did, because Pegula sucks at talking, but I didn't get the idea that the hire was made because of that reason, Pegula just used it to describe why he likes McD's character. I certainly didn't get the impression that it vaulted McD ahead of someone who isn't "faith-based." 

[shrader]

This has to be the worst post-draft topic I have ever read.

[That Aud Smell]

I need to own some responsibility for giving life to this line of talk.

 

Sorry.

 

The only point I had ever wanted to make (and didn't really want to debate because I don't hold it to be True with a capital "T" (or even a little "t")) is that the gratuitous faith-based talk calls to mind, for me, how the Pegulas' sensibilities overall seem to be lacking in nuance and creativity, analytical rigor, and or some sense of skepticism and ambiguity.