Someone Tell Me What Owen Power Does Well?!?!

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

Yes, it is. Cozens his second year here Getting minutes against top lines. Dahlin and Power (before Dahlin started playing good)  getting 20 to 25 minutes per game. When they pick a guy....Krebs certainly had no right to be on any NHL roster this early as opposed to a minor league roster for the time that he's been here.... Would have been much better served with a journeyman 28-year-old veteran in his place cuz he simply wasn't ready either .They certainly do throw them in the deep end.

You can pick players in Rochester that they haven't done this with... But certainly there are young guys that they play much earlier than other organizations would.

Maybe it's bad coaching in Rochester, but most of the young guys, at least the forwards, show up in Buffalo and have no clue. Clue positionally where they should be anywhere outside of the offensive zone. That's what they should be learning in Rochester, playing two times a week and watching film. Not up here Learning on the fly while the big club is trying to win games.

Cozens was not playing against top lines regularly in year 2 and if he were, year 3 shows it worked. 68pts last year when Donny wasn't being a dipshit.

The Sabres aren't rushing guys to the NHL no matter how badly we want that narrative to be true. 

Dahlin wasn't under Adams and Dahlin was fantastic his Rookie year. 

No org in the NHL is leaving 18yr old Dahlin anywhere but the nhl. 

[mjd1001]

17 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Cozens was not playing against top lines regularly in year 2 and if he were, year 3 shows it worked. 68pts last year when Donny wasn't being a dipshit.

The Sabres aren't rushing guys to the NHL no matter how badly we want that narrative to be true. 

Dahlin wasn't under Adams and Dahlin was fantastic his Rookie year. 

No org in the NHL is leaving 18yr old Dahlin anywhere but the nhl. 

Dahlin was FANTASTIC his rookie year? Hard, super hard disagree on that. We must have a different definition of the word Fantastic. Of course he was going to play here, but that doesn't mean he was a major asset to the team at that time.

Just as you say, the Sabres aren't rushing players to the NHL, No matter how much we want that narrative to be true... I say they HAVE played other players in the NHL when they're not fully ready.... No matter how much you don't want that narrative to be true.

Part of the problem with this team though is that young guys are playing and not responsible Defensively. Power is not good enough to be playing 25 minutes some nights, neither Sameulson. As I mentioned, Krebs was not ready at all to be playing in the NHL. Some of the other young guys are decent, what's not kid ourselves into thinking they are "good". Quinn, Peterka, Benson, might be good enough to play in the NHL if needed, but if this team had some above average veterans that will be willing to sign here, they might be better off than playing all three of them last year or this year. They're not 30 goal scorers yet, and there are plenty of times in their own end where they're out of position or waving their sticks at the eventual goal scorers.

It's not a coincidence that this team makes a lot of mistakes, is unbelievably inconsistent night to night, allows goals where the opposing team walks into wide open spots in the slot or primary scoring positions , and they're the youngest team in the NHL. With more development, good coaching while developed at a lower level... Or probably both, that doesn't happen as much.

Personally, I'm forgiving young players a shot and not bringing in veterans. But I also understand when you do that it might take years of development for those young guys.

Maybe the Sabres do it out of necessity, they can't get prime free agents to sign here or even agree to trades here. So they're forced to play the young guys. But sometimes bringing in a veteran or two who is average-to-above average might be better than being the youngest team in the league seemingly year after year.

Edited December 28, 2023 by mjd1001

[LGR4GM]

17 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Dahlin was FANTASTIC his rookie year? Hard, super hard disagree on that. We must have a different definition of the word Fantastic. Of course he was going to play here, but that doesn't mean he was a major asset to the team at that time.

Just as you say, the Sabres aren't rushing players to the NHL, No matter how much we want that narrative to be true... I say they HAVE played other players in the NHL when they're not fully ready.... No matter how much you don't want that narrative to be true.

Part of the problem with this team though is that young guys are playing and not responsible Defensively. Power is not good enough to be playing 25 minutes some nights, neither Sameulson. As I mentioned, Krebs was not ready at all to be playing in the NHL. Some of the other young guys are decent, what's not kid ourselves into thinking they are "good". Quinn, Peterka, Benson, might be good enough to play in the NHL if needed, but if this team had some above average veterans that will be willing to sign here, they might be better off than playing all three of them last year or this year. They're not 30 goal scorers yet, and there are plenty of times in their own end where they're out of position or waving their sticks at the eventual goal scorers.

It's not a coincidence that this team makes a lot of mistakes, is unbelievably inconsistent night to night, allows goals where the opposing team walks into wide open spots in the slot or primary scoring positions , and they're the youngest team in the NHL. With more development, good coaching while developed at a lower level... Or probably both, that doesn't happen as much.

Personally, I'm forgiving young players a shot and not bringing in veterans. But I also understand when you do that it might take years of development for those young guys.

Maybe the Sabres do it out of necessity, they can't get prime free agents to sign here or even agree to trades here. So they're forced to play the young guys. But sometimes bringing in a veteran or two who is average-to-above average might be better than being the youngest team in the league seemingly year after year.

He had 44pts and a 57.1% corsi. Just because you and half this board only remember the 2 Krueger years, doesn't mean Dahlin wasn't excellent his rookie year. He was far better than Power was and fit in nicely in the NHL which your original argument was we rush players. Outside of Krebs, Adams hasn't done this. 

[LGR4GM]

21 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

As I mentioned, Krebs was not ready at all to be playing in the NHL. Some of the other young guys are decent, what's not kid ourselves into thinking they are "good". Quinn, Peterka, Benson, might be good enough to play in the NHL if needed, but if this team had some above average veterans that will be willing to sign here, they might be better off than playing all three of them last year or this year. They're not 30 goal scorers yet, and there are plenty of times in their own end where they're out of position or waving their sticks at the eventual goal scorers.

 

This is batshit crazy. Quinn might be the best 2way forward on the team and would be pacing for 30 if he wasn't injured. Also 30g scorers are rare so you deliberately are setting a fake bar. Peterka is on a 30g pace so blows that up. Benson is also in the conversation for best 2 way player on the team. Last night was a rare mistake for him. Benson probably won't be a 30g guy in his prime. There's rare times they are out of position. What horse hockey. 

[Wyldnwoody44]

I wanted Beneirs, but alas, we went with a Dman on a team that doesn't play defense. 

Better coaching may get these guys there, at this moment in time, I don't think they'll hit their potential under this regime. 

[SabreFinn]

13 hours ago, HumanSlinky39 said:

Got a helluva head of hair...

Bruce Springsteen once brought up a kid on stage to play guitar with him. He told the kid that it isn't how you play, it is about how good you look playing it. Was that kid Owen Power??

[Wyldnwoody44]

He collects checks well, or at least he will. 

[#freejame]

Luke Hughes had more potential going into the draft but he was smaller and at the time slightly less developed. Few teams are going to draft a guy out of the consensus top three when they have the #1. Power should probably be fine. Or he’ll be Erik Johnson who was panned for years, moved to Colorado, and then was forgotten as a #1. 

[xzy89c1]

There is a huge lack of accountability for our players. Young players especially need to be held accountable. You must have good coaching along with that. We do not have that. Same mistakes over and over and over. I keep harping on the "system" we play that leaves our dman out to dry. forwards take off at hint of possession and d has nowhere to go leading to turnovers and icings. Our whole coaching staff needs to be removed. Granato is a motivator coach. those guys last about two years on a good team. This is not a good team. KA is over his head i believe. His idea of drafting skill makes sense, but we need grit as well. there is zero on this team.

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

There is a reason why he was picked at #1 overall.  He has the best upside and raw talent of the bunch.  He will be fine, but he needs better coaching.  They need to hire a mentor for the young D, especially Power, like the did for the goalers.  What is Lidstrom or Neidermayer doing these days?

What do Lidstrom and Neidermayer have to do with this?   They have no ties to the Sabres and great players are not very often great coaches too.  Girardi was a very good defenseman, is he helping coach Power.  Not really seeing the results are we? 

To the bolded, you are correct.  The kid is talented, and he has size, and usually demonstrates poise.  I think it was Panger last night that said (paraphrasing) -  Power looked really good last year and he was expecting him to step up, but sometimes second year players do not and there is still a lot of learning going on.  Young defenseman take awhile.  

Dahlin struggled with consistency for a few years.   Power is doing the same.  So is Samuelsson for that matter.  

The smartest thing they could have done was bring in a vet to pair with Power.   If you are old enough to remember, the Sabres brought in Tim Horton to help out Schoenfeld - it is the oldest trick in the book. 

They need to get him a complimentary defender to play with.  Joker is not it.  Clifton is not it (he is a bottom pair guy, at Boston he was 6/7).   E Johnson cannot log that many minutes.   R Johnson is a rookie too.  Samuelsson is often injured and he also has hit a wall. 

The GM did not do enough.  Rumor has it he spent a long time on Pesce and that of course did not pay off.   I think that Adams inherited some real issues when it comes to getting players.  

This is just becoming a real bad year for the team.  Most all of the players are underperforming from last season.  It is not just Power, but what really sticks out for Power is the decision to pay him after one season.  

I still feel pretty confident he will turn out to be a good one, maybe even a good one for the Sabres. 

 

 

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

This is batshit crazy. Quinn might be the best 2way forward on the team and would be pacing for 30 if he wasn't injured. Also 30g scorers are rare so you deliberately are setting a fake bar. Peterka is on a 30g pace so blows that up. Benson is also in the conversation for best 2 way player on the team. Last night was a rare mistake for him. Benson probably won't be a 30g guy in his prime. There's rare times they are out of position. What horse hockey. 

Peterka might be the best of the bunch, but I have posted NUMEROUS times on Sabres goals allowed how he kinda floats in his own end and several times where he does the stick wave at a defender. Benson?  Let me use your own logic on Benson...just because saying over and over he is one of the best 2 way players on the team does NOT make it true, despite it fitting your argument.   Is he better than some rookies, yes, but again, go back and look at goals scored against this team, in his own end he has a LOT to learn, lots of times I posted about replays of goals allowed where he floated, where he had a chance to pick up the goal scorer or the guy with the primary assist that he didn't. Again, hes not the BEST example, but he certainly could be/would be a lot better with more experience and, like a LOT Of guys, if they received proper defensive zone training in their own end, would be a lot more of an asset to this team.  The replays are there. Go watch about 20 goals the Sabres allow...you will see mistakes made all over the place that many other teams don't make as much, and a lot of that could/would be fixed with better coaching/more experience with better coaching.

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, xzy89c1 said:

There is a huge lack of accountability for our players. Young players especially need to be held accountable. You must have good coaching along with that. We do not have that. Same mistakes over and over and over. I keep harping on the "system" we play that leaves our dman out to dry. forwards take off at hint of possession and d has nowhere to go leading to turnovers and icings. Our whole coaching staff needs to be removed. Granato is a motivator coach. those guys last about two years on a good team. This is not a good team. KA is over his head i believe. His idea of drafting skill makes sense, but we need grit as well. there is zero on this team.

You along with a few others get it.  Are the D-men great? No they aren't great, but when you watch the goals allowed, look 5-10 seconds before the goals are allowed, and watch the play develop, the D-men on this team aren't as bad as they look, the forwards, many times the younger guys, are AWFUL. They chase the puck when they shouldn't, leaving opposing players uncovered or areas of the ice wide open for opposing players to step into (Cozens, looking at you mostly here).  They hang around the blue line instead of taking guys in the slot or the faceoff circles, and do the 'stick wave' at them when simply a LITTLE physical contact might disrupt them (Krebs, Peterka, and Benson, YES the Benson that many THINK is a great 2 way player....looking at you pretty hard here). Its the vets also, but the young guys should be learning this now and they aren't.

I'm arguing with a few people on this board who want to just slam their narrative down everyone's throat or use their 'fancy stats' to prove a point, but the proof is there. LOOK at the goals or major opportunities this team allows...NHL.com has all the replays. Watch the bad choices the forwards make, even the young guys that are the current favorites, they are bad. They need to get better. When the D-men look bad it is because they have to often cover their own area of the ice and areas of the ice that the forwards should be taking but they aren't.

Many of the vets up front aren't better. Mitts, Tage, and Tuch have good moments and bad moments.  Skinner seems alergic to going deep into his own zone to help out and instead prefers to slam on the breaks at the blue line before entering his own zone. Okposo for all his 'experience' apparently doesn't have much experience playing well in his own zone, and Cozens often time causes more problems in his own end than someone who 'just exists' there like VO.  But the young guys, they should be/should have gotten better instruction in Roch, or shouldn't be on the big club taking in just how bad everyone else is in their own end.  I don't know if its a directive from above or the Development coaches/Rochester coaches are just clueless, but that needs to change.

Edited December 28, 2023 by mjd1001

[inkman]

1 hour ago, xzy89c1 said:

There is a huge lack of accountability for our players. Young players especially need to be held accountable. You must have good coaching along with that. We do not have that. Same mistakes over and over and over. I keep harping on the "system" we play that leaves our dman out to dry. forwards take off at hint of possession and d has nowhere to go leading to turnovers and icings. Our whole coaching staff needs to be removed. Granato is a motivator coach. those guys last about two years on a good team. This is not a good team. KA is over his head i believe. His idea of drafting skill makes sense, but we need grit as well. there is zero on this team.

I’ve heard a ton, and I mean a ***** ton, of fans talk about accountability.  What does that look like to you? 

[PASabreFan]

3 hours ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

There is a reason why he was picked at #1 overall.  He has the best upside and raw talent of the bunch.  He will be fine, but he needs better coaching.  They need to hire a mentor for the young D, especially Power, like the did for the goalers.  What is Lidstrom or Neidermayer doing these days?

Ahhhh... Granato is destroying Power. Peca will get credit for the Power flower.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

Ahhhh... Granato is destroying Power. Peca will get credit for the Power flower.

Wrong.

[Doohickie]

No one wears their helmet crooked better than Owen Power.

[JoeSchmoe]

6 hours ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

He will be in the Norris conversation each year

What do you see in his skillset that leads you to think this? Are you sure you're not being fooled by his draft position or his non-stop cheating on D for offense?

[K-9]

What does Owen Power do well? Hmm. He disappoints you? 

[PerreaultForever]

7 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Dahlin is better than Power

At this moment, obviously.

In 3 years I'm not so sure. But, I do not believe we are developing Power properly or even know how to develop him properly so he might never become what he should become in a proper system. 

Right now, Power should be in Rochester on a heavy diet/strength building program working on simple defensive aspects of his game while adding strength and muscle. Then next year he should be eased into bottom 6 minutes, preferably paired with a solid defensively responsible veteran. You do that and in another year I think you'd see the beginnings of a Pietrangelo type defenseman. 

Would that be "better" than Dahlin? Depends on how you look at it. (Looking at yesterday's game as an example) right now I suspect you'd say Dahlin is a better defenseman than McAvoy because he's flashier and scores more but I'd say you are totally wrong. Dahlin, for all his offensive prowess still makes big defensive errors and costs us goals. Sometimes at key moments. He generally makes up for it with offense, but "better" in terms of defensemen involves more. 

I am not giving up on Power, I just think the Sabres are clueless as an organization when it comes to player development. Slapping a young kid like that into a number 2 D man role with big minutes is just dumbass.  

[LGR4GM]

4 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

Peterka might be the best of the bunch, but I have posted NUMEROUS times on Sabres goals allowed how he kinda floats in his own end and several times where he does the stick wave at a defender. Benson?  Let me use your own logic on Benson...just because saying over and over he is one of the best 2 way players on the team does NOT make it true, despite it fitting your argument.   Is he better than some rookies, yes, but again, go back and look at goals scored against this team, in his own end he has a LOT to learn, lots of times I posted about replays of goals allowed where he floated, where he had a chance to pick up the goal scorer or the guy with the primary assist that he didn't. Again, hes not the BEST example, but he certainly could be/would be a lot better with more experience and, like a LOT Of guys, if they received proper defensive zone training in their own end, would be a lot more of an asset to this team.  The replays are there. Go watch about 20 goals the Sabres allow...you will see mistakes made all over the place that many other teams don't make as much, and a lot of that could/would be fixed with better coaching/more experience with better coaching.

Peterka will be 3rd between the 3 of Quinn, Benson, Peterka. 

4 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

You along with a few others get it.  Are the D-men great? No they aren't great, but when you watch the goals allowed, look 5-10 seconds before the goals are allowed, and watch the play develop, the D-men on this team aren't as bad as they look, the forwards, many times the younger guys, are AWFUL. They chase the puck when they shouldn't, leaving opposing players uncovered or areas of the ice wide open for opposing players to step into (Cozens, looking at you mostly here).  They hang around the blue line instead of taking guys in the slot or the faceoff circles, and do the 'stick wave' at them when simply a LITTLE physical contact might disrupt them (Krebs, Peterka, and Benson, YES the Benson that many THINK is a great 2 way player....looking at you pretty hard here). Its the vets also, but the young guys should be learning this now and they aren't.

I'm arguing with a few people on this board who want to just slam their narrative down everyone's throat or use their 'fancy stats' to prove a point, but the proof is there. LOOK at the goals or major opportunities this team allows...NHL.com has all the replays. Watch the bad choices the forwards make, even the young guys that are the current favorites, they are bad. They need to get better. When the D-men look bad it is because they have to often cover their own area of the ice and areas of the ice that the forwards should be taking but they aren't.

Many of the vets up front aren't better. Mitts, Tage, and Tuch have good moments and bad moments.  Skinner seems alergic to going deep into his own zone to help out and instead prefers to slam on the breaks at the blue line before entering his own zone. Okposo for all his 'experience' apparently doesn't have much experience playing well in his own zone, and Cozens often time causes more problems in his own end than someone who 'just exists' there like VO.  But the young guys, they should be/should have gotten better instruction in Roch, or shouldn't be on the big club taking in just how bad everyone else is in their own end.  I don't know if its a directive from above or the Development coaches/Rochester coaches are just clueless, but that needs to change.

It's your argument, you prove it. 

[mjd1001]

23 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Peterka will be 3rd between the 3 of Quinn, Benson, Peterka. 

It's your argument, you prove it. 

I have. done it probably close to 100 times over the past year where I posted during the gameday threads.  Point by point, while watching the replays AND sometimes I even added screenshots to the thread.

Its been done. Your welcome.  Your argument is the opposite. I'll be waiting for threads where you post and comment on replays where they make stellar plays that take away chance after chance in their own end. I've done my part to prove my point.

Edited December 28, 2023 by mjd1001

[DarthEbriate]

Power-based memes/gifs!

And remember how last year he looked like a legit future top 4 and wise/calm beyond his years. It's either the proverbial sophomore slump (and opponent film study) or poor coaching. 

[Broken Ankles]

11 hours ago, #freejame said:

Luke Hughes had more potential going into the draft but he was smaller and at the time slightly less developed. Few teams are going to draft a guy out of the consensus top three when they have the #1. Power should probably be fine. Or he’ll be Erik Johnson who was panned for years, moved to Colorado, and then was forgotten as a #1. 

….until he signed in Buffalo, and all opposing announcers mention the Sabres have 3 #1 overall D men playing their team.  I myself was hoping more of EK than good trivia.  

[Taro T]

3 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

Power-based memes/gifs!

And remember how last year he looked like a legit future top 4 and wise/calm beyond his years. It's either the proverbial sophomore slump (and opponent film study) or poor coaching. 

Could be both.  He really should be 3rd pairing and with a true defensive minded vet as his partner this season; but he has neither.  (And, the D gets really convoluted trying to find a deployment where with these 7 he is on the 3rd pairing.  Maybe some mix of Dahlin, Samuelsson, R Johnson, & Jokiharju but that has issues too this year.)

[SwampD]

17 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

No,  it isn't. 

Kinda is. Not sure it’s what they want, but it’s what they have choice but to do.

Just think of how good the Sabres would have to be if power was in the A waiting to find a spot.