NHL Trade Deadline 2023

[Scottysabres]

1 minute ago, Taro T said:

Did anybody actually trade their hoarded TP for food?  Don't believe anyone dumb enough to stock up on TP over food actually did so.

Well, from where I'm sitting, if anyone did stock up on TP, call me....I have 3 girls in the house, it's looking like a long journey to the upstairs bathroom.....

[Eleven]

Just now, Cheektorado said:

You got that right.

Street hockey in the tennis courts at Dingens St. Park.

If I ever find out that the Church sainted Brad Park, I'm converting to Zoroastrianism.

[CallawaySabres]

I think at this point I would rather get a bandaid goalie for 6 weeks to see if we can sneak in this year. A homerun swing for multiple defensemen is not happening so let's roll the dice and hope some other goalie can come in here and steal enough points to get us past Pitt, Isle, Florida and Ottawa.

[GASabresIUFAN]

24 minutes ago, Eleven said:

This is the problem.  Yes, Adams wanted another physical D, and he was right to (and needs a better one, still).  No, he didn't overpay.  If you have a thousand crates of toilet paper (which you are paying to store) and your family is starving, wouldn't it make sense to trade 100 crates for some food?

Except the family wasn't starving for food, they were starving for quality food. It was starving for a decent top 6 D to play in front of Bryson and Clague.  In your example, KA traded a crate of TP for a crate of processed beanie weenies, instead of getting the healthy food they actually needed.

Edited March 1, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN
Analogy fixed

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, CallawaySabres said:

I think at this point I would rather get a bandaid goalie for 6 weeks to see if we can sneak in this year. A homerun swing for multiple defensemen is not happening so let's roll the dice and hope some other goalie can come in here and steal enough points to get us past Pitt, Isle, Florida and Ottawa.

Your best hope there is to hope NU's sticks all break and Levi gets no goal support the next week or 2 and becomes available to the Sabres by St. Patty's Day.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Taro T

[RochesterExpat]

58 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

This is where the arguments fail.  No one is asking KA to accelerate the plan.  All I and others are asking for is for KA to fix obvious holes in the roster.  That doesn't mean spending our pipeline, but what it does mean is making smart deals for guys like Marino to shepherd a young D group and gives decent play.  DR did this with Teppo and then with Lydman to go with homegrown Kalinin, Campbell, Tallinder and McKee.   

This is why I will be upset if we trade for anyone that doesn't have term or an extension in place. We aren't buyers because we're contenders this year so a rental is a terrible waste. We're simply not at that point. If we make the playoffs that's an accomplishment unto itself. It's about playing out the rest of this season and playing into next.

It's also why I want them to go after Saros or Vejemelka and a role-filling defensemen (shot-blocking puck mover who can pass is what we need). We are ahead of the curve right now but we won't be able to capitalize on that next season if we're sitting behind a developing UPL and sub-standard Comrie. Andy will retire. Levi may be an all-star in the NCAA but he isn't a proven NHL goalie and will need time in the AHL. We're also going to be heartbroken if we keep painting him to be a savior and fan expectations need to be managed accordingly.

If we add a defenseman that can bump Joki down the lineup and a goalie who can play 50+ games with a steal here or there, we will be a real threat next season to contending teams in the playoffs. We can fix the middle six in the off-season or at the trade deadline next year. I don't see any reason this season to spend assets to upgrade players when we could pursue that in the offseason. Again, we are not a contender.

I want us to be a threat in 23-24 and a contender in 24-25. It's not accelerating the plan anymore because the plan accelerated intentionally or not. It's accepting that we're ahead of schedule and it's time to make additions so we can continue to evaluate as we move closer. We just need to understand we're at that tweener step where we can't be mortgaging assets for rentals in what should be considered a lost year. We get people here with term who can help us get to the next level next season and after. It's why Saros and Vejemelka make sense because they're under contract through 24-25 and they are some of the only goalies that play on teams that are defensively worse than Buffalo and who we might be able to get in a trade by a team that's blowing it for Bedard or rebuilding ("resetting" as Trotz called it for Nashville).

 

EDIT: should clarify, if this offseason is anything like the last, goalies are prime in the summer and I think it's better to trade for one now.

Edited March 1, 2023 by RochesterExpat

[Cheektorado]

2 minutes ago, CallawaySabres said:

I think at this point I would rather get a bandaid goalie for 6 weeks to see if we can sneak in this year. A homerun swing for multiple defensemen is not happening so let's roll the dice and hope some other goalie can come in here and steal enough points to get us past Pitt, Isle, Florida and Ottawa.

I'll admit I had some hope that some team wanting to make a splash at the deadline would want to move a cap dump goalie who is an UFA next year.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, RochesterExpat said:

This is why I will be upset if we trade for anyone that doesn't have term or an extension in place. We aren't buyers because we're contenders this year so a rental is a terrible waste. We're simply not at that point. If we make the playoffs that's an accomplishment unto itself. It's about playing out the rest of this season and playing into next.

I don't think anyone, including myself, really wants short-term rentals unless they come dirt cheap.  I want Jordan Greenway for example because he has two years left on his deal.  Vejmelka is another perfect bridge upgrade.  Chychrun on the higher end as well.  

One of the things I admired about Pitt back in the early part of their run was that used to use the trade deadline to fix long-term holes on their roster.  Guys like Kunitz arrived in Pitt at the deadline and then stayed another 8 years.  With the right transactions, KA can do this for us as well.  However that means added a Chychrun not a Stillman.

[Eleven]

8 minutes ago, CallawaySabres said:

I think at this point I would rather get a bandaid goalie for 6 weeks to see if we can sneak in this year. A homerun swing for multiple defensemen is not happening so let's roll the dice and hope some other goalie can come in here and steal enough points to get us past Pitt, Isle, Florida and Ottawa.

As @Contempt and @tom webster said above, a deal for Chychrun shouldn't be off limits, but also shouldn't include the Sabres' 2023 first.  He's not a rent-a-D, and we could see two VERY solid pairs and a half-decent pair entering next season.  My focus remains on the big prize; if the Sabs make it this year, it's a bonus.  (I voted no in the poll from a few months ago.) 

But also, the Sabres absolutely need to address goaltending--not in a rental situation--before September.  Levi and whoever emerges among the current three is unlikely to cut it, no matter how high I am on Levi.

I don't want a bandaid goalie though.

[JohnC]

30 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Yet that is what he just did in the Stillman trade, except there was no short-term gain.

Also these problems aren't new.  These were the same issue from last season and were addressed with the poor acquisitions of Comire and Lyubushkin (and Clague) and now Stillman.  

You say he is playing the long developmental game. Ok that's easy on the forwards.  We have 1600, but we have only 1 legit D prospect at this point.  How does one prospect will 4 holes in your D group?  

How valuable of an asset was Bloom? In that middling deal the GM got a lower-level defensive player who will play a little on the lowest pairing. He will be taking minutes away from both Clague and Bryson. That is a good thing. On balance this was a good deal for us. Certainly, not a consequential deal, but a plus deal. 

With respect to the blue line unit everyone agrees with you that there needs to be some additions. Right now, our top two pairings are reasonably set. Many here would like to see a defenseman brought in that allows Joki to move down to the third pairing. I'm still hoping for a third pairing caliber player being brought in before the trade deadline expires. But if not, by next season another player on that unit will probably be signed. 

With respect to the long developmental game the issue is how do you define long-term development. I believe that the process has been ongoing for the past few years. I expect (hope) that by next year our roster will be better with a couple of additions and by internal development that is ongoing right now. There is no question that the improvement that the organization undergoes will be driven by internal improvement. And KA would say that is the basis of the plan.

[Brawndo]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Ovie may be the only player left on the team at this rate.  Can they send us Jensen?

He’s locked in for 3 more seasons now, I would definitely make that deal 

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

He’s locked in for 3 more seasons now, I would definitely make that deal 

Come to think of it, I would as well.  He'd become this team's Toni Lydman.

[Marvin]

5 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

He’s locked in for 3 more seasons now, I would definitely make that deal 

I thought Jense just signed an extension with Washington.

[Brawndo]

 

2 minutes ago, Marvin said:

I thought Jense just signed an extension with Washington.

Hence being locked in for three more seasons 😉

[WhenWillItEnd66]

I have a feeling it is going to be dead until Friday.... all the real contenders locked their players up early as they are playing for now. 

[dudacek]

52 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

He is Fitz 2.0.  KA wanted another physical D in his organization and overpaid for one, especially when you consider Luke Schenn, a significantly better player on the same team, who went for a similar value.   KA is hoping that the terrible positioning he displayed the last two seasons is correctable in our system.  Sadly our system hasn't cured Bush or Fitz of similar issues.  They don't and Stillman doesn't have the hockey IQ to overcome his poor instincts.  I watched many Van games this season watching Schenn to see if the turnaround I saw in TB continued on a mediocre team (it did). What I saw of Stillman made me cringe and his advanced stats match the eye test.

I hope and pray DG and co can fix Stillman and turn him into a viable 3rd pairing guy or tough 7 that DG is comfortable throwing out there 18 minutes a night if needed and everyone can say I told you so.   However, to me this is KA betting on a long-shot to win the Triple Crown.

I think @Thorny has the rights of it: you were framing this as an operations issue, when what it really is (or it least could be) is a player evaluation issue.

It’s clear from your posts you’d have no issue whatsoever with Adams trading a 3rd-round pick for a 24-year-old physical defenceman with a year left on his deal and the potential to upgrade the bottom pairing. 

On the contrary, it’s what you have been yelling at him to do for months.

The objections come from people who think Bloom has value in excess of of a 3rd-rounder, and people who don’t think Stillman is an upgrade to Bryson/Clague.

Each of which is a legitimate concern, although probably not worth the pixels we’re using to discuss it.

[DarthEbriate]

53 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

KA knew who is homegrown core was this past off-season.  He extended Samuelsson long-term and had 2 1st overall players in his top3 in Dahlin and Power.  Dahlin at 22 was his most experienced D entering the season and he knew or should have known that a veteran presence was needed on the D.  He got one for the goalies in Anderson and had 2 (Z and KO) for the forwards.  Why not also get one for the D?  Instead we received the physical but positionally challenged Lyubushkin who had less NHL experience than Dahlin.

I'm putting words in Adams' mouth, but I think he'd tell us it's about building the culture and who wants to be here. He's secured the base, but he didn't want to strip away the supporting folks and replace them all at once (which he could've done). The Mitts, Asplund, VO, Jokers, and even Girgs or JJP to an extent (is JJP expendable for an upgrade?) of the team -- they're the ones he's deciding on this season.

They appear committed to keeping all of their top assets (1st/2nd prospects and picks) regardless of any situation.

And... it's just conjecture and the front office would deny it, but they certainly didn't disprove it -- they appear to have an internal cap at least for this season; or rather, a don't spend it because we're saving it for our own extensions. Why spend a ton when it's a development season and the building is only half full? They made the Bishop trade so they could move pieces if needed and still be at the floor, and they stayed away from any big free agents --- you throw enough money & term at a goalie and say you're our #1 and one of them will sell out to join you. But we are still operating on the Pegula-mandated Effective, Efficient, and Economical model until told otherwise (maybe when Dahlin is due up for his next contract we'll find out).

[GASabresIUFAN]

21 minutes ago, dudacek said:

it’s clear from your posts you’d have no issue whatsoever with Adams trading a 3rd-round pick for a 24-year-old physical defenceman with a year left on his deal and the potential to upgrade the bottom pairing. 

I would have been thrilled with trading Bloom for

1) A similar D prospect for our pipeline - sort of a smaller version of Nylander for Jokiharju

2) A 24-year-old D with term or control who is a proven upgrade on Bryson and Clague and would force them down the depth chart.  Someone like Schenn or Jensen or whomever.

Sadly this is not Stillman.  Stillman is an 8.  Only to be used in an emergency.  Stillman only plays in the top 6 on bad hockey NHL teams and that isn't us.  He is no better than Fitz who we waived.  Why trade for the same garbage we gave away for free?

Edited March 1, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[Thorny]

6 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I would have been thrilled with trading Bloom for

1) A similar D prospect for our pipeline - sort of a smaller version of Nylander for Jokiharju

2) A 24-year-old D with term or control who is an upgrade on Bryson and Clague and would force them down the depth chart.  Someone like Schenn or Jensen or whomever.

Sadly this is not Stillman.  Stillman is an 8.  Only to be used in an emergency.  Stillman only plays in the top 6 on bad hockey NHL teams and that isn't us.  He is no better than Fitz who we waived.  

I’m not / hate being “tAge is Josh allin” Guy but in a world where Tage can go from imminent bust to “is he actually Mario Lemieux 2?” in the span of a few Marvel movies, you seem to be spending an awful lot of words being upset with Still-Man when he’s a development jump under Meatballs all of the distance from #8 Guy to #6 Guy while jumping over minus a billion Bryson (insane stat outlier here), from satisfying the requirements you listed in 2)

Edited March 1, 2023 by Thorny

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

I’m not / hate being “tAge is Josh allin” guy but in a world where Tage can go from imminent bust to “is he actually Mario Lemieux 2?” in the span of a few Marvel movies, you seem to be spending an awful lot of words being upset with Still-Man when he’s a development jump under Meatballs all of the distance from #8 guy to #6 guy while jumping over minus a billion Bryson (insane stat outlier here) from satisfying the requirements you listed in 2)

There is one big difference.  Tage has real talent while Stillman not so much. When your hope for him is that he becomes Lyubushkin, that's not really the result we are looking for.  

 

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

There is one big difference.  Tage has real talent while Stillman not so much. When your hope for him is that he becomes Lyubushkin, that's not really the result we are looking for.  

 

I know but it was a relative comparison. Still-Man only needs to have talent real enough to get from 8 to 6. It’s not really a bridge too far in principle imo

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, Thorny said:

I know but it was a relative comparison. Still-Man only needs to have talent real enough to get from 8 to 6. It’s not really a bridge too far in principle imo

What we are looking for is a good 5 (Bush is the 6), not another AAAA player masquerading as a 5 because our other options are worse.  Honestly, it would almost be a bigger miracle than Thompson if Stillman turns out to be our 5 for the next season plus and is actually good.  

 

 

[dudacek]

24 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I would have been thrilled with trading Bloom for

1) A similar D prospect for our pipeline - sort of a smaller version of Nylander for Jokiharju

2) A 24-year-old D with term or control who is a proven upgrade on Bryson and Clague and would force them down the depth chart.  Someone like Schenn or Jensen or whomever.

Sadly this is not Stillman.  Stillman is an 8.  Only to be used in an emergency.  Stillman only plays in the top 6 on bad hockey NHL teams and that isn't us.  He is no better than Fitz who we waived.  Why trade for the same garbage we gave away for free?

So, you agree: player evaluation issue.

The issue with Schenn or Jensen is that they in all likelihood would represent operational hypocrisy on Adams part, unless he had a good sense he would have been able to sign them.

He’s made it clear he’s not interested in trading futures for pieces who won’t be here in the future.

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

What we are looking for is a good 5 (Bush is the 6), not another AAAA player masquerading as a 5 because our other options are worse.  Honestly, it would almost be a bigger miracle than Thompson if Stillman turns out to be our 5 for the next season plus and is actually good.  

 

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

13 minutes ago, dudacek said:

So, you agree: player evaluation issue.

Sure call it whatever you want, I don't like giving up assets for bad hockey players, especially bad hockey players with term. 

Edited March 1, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN