NHL Trade Deadline 2023

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 minutes ago, sabresparaavida said:

 

Huh? 
 

My bad it was @French Collection who brought up Matt Irwin and that is who I originally responded to.  

[Thorny]

5 minutes ago, sabresparaavida said:

 

Huh? 
 

We got him?

Just now, GASabresIUFAN said:

My bad it was @French Collection who brought up Matt Irwin and that is who I originally responded to.  

We got him?

[GASabresIUFAN]

3 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

 Caps just reupped Jensen for three more years.

Oh well.  

[LGR4GM]

31% of Ellers salary retained

Edited March 1, 2023 by LGR4GM

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

 

So Avs paid nothing, are getting healthy, and play in the weak conference while the east beats itself up. Colorado imo a great repeat bet right now 

not cause of this deal but just in general I think 

Edited March 1, 2023 by Thorny

[GASabresIUFAN]

It feels like 30% of the league has changed teams already.

Last season we had 27 trades from 2/14 to  3/20 starting with the Toffoli trade.  18 deals were made in the last week before Deadline Day. We had another 30 deals on Deadline Day.

This season we'd already had 32 deals from 1/30 to today starting with Horvat to the NYI, with 22 just in the last few days.

    

Edited March 1, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[JohnC]

34 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I disagree.  There have been numerous posts here that the guys (like Clague and Bryson) are still young and they'll get better. There wWas even a post today saying that Joki still has a chance to become Lydman, despite him getting caved again last night.  They say all this is going to happen just be patient.  They say waiting who knows how many years for Levi to save our goaltending is the right plan.  People keep posting about a young team's inconsistency and to just be patient. 

I'm sorry that just doesn't hold water any longer.  While I haven't said in over a year that Adams is doing a terrible job.  As I noted earlier, I have stated since the off-season that we have a playoff-caliber team with the right tweaks on Defense and in goal.  I have stated he has made mistakes in his decision-making on D and in goal.  Stillman is just the latest, and the facts support my argument.  However, I have also praised him when he made good decisions as well.  

Just look at the NJ Devils.  They were exactly where we were last year.  Their GM made the right tweaks on defense and in goal and they are now one of the best teams in the NHL. 

Ultimately it's KA's job to actually fix these problems and I mean really fix them.  No more Pysyks, no more Comries, no more Stillmans.  He has built a playoff-caliber offense, it's past time to give that offense the defense to win consistently.   Things change and a good plan changes with it.  

Just because a miniscule number of people might outlandishly over-rate the abilities of blueliners such as Clague and Bryson, that doesn't come close to representing the consensus of the posters. (As @dudacekpointed out.)

The comparison to NJ Devils doesn't hold water for the main reason that you don't know what the GM is going to do to address the manifest deficiencies that this roster has. Who is going to disagree that it is the GM's job to construct a roster? Most of the action taken to rework the roster is done in the offseason. The offseason hasn't started yet. Trades and wheeling and dealing is often done around the draft. That day hasn't arrived yet. 

Sometimes, one needs to stand back a little to get some perspective on things. Consider where this franchise was two years ago, last year and this year. It may not be at the pace you are satisfied with but the ladder is being climbed. And it should be remembered that this season is still ongoing. We're at the fringe of earning a wildcard spot. (Not saying that it is going to happen.) We are where many of us (the realistic ones) thought where we would be. 

Again, most of us agree that the problems you identify need to be addressed. They are glaringly obvious to most of us. But the GM has publicly stated from the beginning the approach that he was going to take to build this roster. He emphatically stated that he wasn't going to expend his young assets and draft picks for short-term gains. He's taking a bigger picture approach with a longer time frame that you would prefer. That's understood. But you can't deny that he is doing exactly what he said he was going to do and how he how he was going to go about executing his play. Your frustrations are understandable. But the course he set from the start and that he is currently on is working. If you don't believe that then consider where we were before he took over a couple of years ago. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

6 minutes ago, JohnC said:

He emphatically stated that he wasn't going to expend his young assets and draft picks for short-term gains.

Yet that is what he just did in the Stillman trade, except there was no short-term gain.

Also these problems aren't new.  These were the same issue from last season and were addressed with the poor acquisitions of Comire and Lyubushkin (and Clague) and now Stillman.  

You say he is playing the long developmental game. Ok that's easy on the forwards.  We have 1600, but we have only 1 legit D prospect at this point.  How does one prospect will 4 holes in your D group?  

Edited March 1, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[Eleven]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Yet that is what he just did in the Stillman trade, except there was no short-term gain.

No one seems to agree with this take, no matter how many times you repeat it.  Everyone else can see that Adams traded a guy who probably wasn't going to get through the Sabres' forward pipeline.  That's not an asset.  That's excess inventory, and it's costly for a business to carry excess inventory.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

So the Wild finally get their 2C. Bravo

Please just save some dealz till Friday 

So, Johansson has now been a Cap twice and a Wild twice.  When does he come back to Buffalo?  (If they answer is 1 day after never, that works.)

[GASabresIUFAN]

7 minutes ago, Eleven said:

No one seems to agree with this take, no matter how many times you repeat it.  Everyone else can see that Adams traded a guy who probably wasn't going to get through the Sabres' forward pipeline.  That's not an asset.  That's excess inventory, and it's costly for a business to carry excess inventory.

If he was excess inventory why give him a contract early?  If you had excess inventory why draft another 400 forwards the following draft, when you had a D inventory of 1?  If he had traded Bloom for a D prospect I'd have been thrilled.  If he had received good value for Bloom, I'd also would have been thrilled, but instead, he got someone who likely will be waived next season, just Fitz was this season.  That feels like a move that was completely unnecessary and a waste.  I'm also not the only one who believes this. I'm just the one who is most vocal about it.

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[Thorny]

12 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Yet that is what he just did in the Stillman trade, except there was no short-term gain.

Also these problems aren't new.  These were the same issue from last season and were addressed with the poor acquisitions of Comire and Lyubushkin (and Clague) and now Stillman.  

You say he is playing the long developmental game. Ok that's easy on the forwards.  We have 1600, but we have only 1 legit D prospect at this point.  How does one prospect will 4 holes in your D group?  

You are making a lot of good arguments here but imo you should focus them on his skills of analysis rather than modus of operation. It’s not plausibly logical to suggest Adams didn’t *THINK* stillman addressed a need for now, AND later (fitting in with the idea we won’t spend assets to MERELY help now) because he’s under contract next year. There’s no other logical inference. He didn’t betray, in his mind, the “not for short term gain” thing.

It’s not “exactly what he did” with the Stillman trade as, by KA’s parameters, it’s well within. I’m not smart enough to do it but you or others could probably figure out why exactly Adams’ talent analysis of Stillman doesn’t line up with yours. In an effort to understand why KA made the move its the only avenue to pursue here. 

What does Stillman bring 

Edited March 1, 2023 by Thorny

[Eleven]

8 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

If he was excess inventory why give him a contract early?  If you had excess inventory why draft another 400 forwards the following draft, when you had a D inventory of 1?  If he had traded Bloom for a D prospect I'd have been thrilled.  If he had received good value for Bloom, I'd also would have been thrilled, but instead, he got someone who likely will be waived next season, just Fitz was this season.  That feels a move that was completely unnecessary and a waste.  I'm also not the only one who believes this.

>If he was excess inventory why give him a contract early?

Because he's 19 and doesn't count against the cap of 50 contracts.  Not signing him results in a possible re-entry in the draft.

>If you had excess inventory why draft another 400 forwards the following draft, when you had a D inventory of 1?

I can't explain the Sabres' preference to draft fewer defensemen.  It has nothing to do with Bloom, though, and, in fact, it would point to a lack of confidence in Bloom.  Take it to its logical end:  Why *were* the Sabres still drafting forwards if Bloom was in their plans?

>If he had traded Bloom for a D prospect I'd have been thrilled. 

Pretend he did.  Stillman was ok in Florida.

>If he had received good value for Bloom, I'd also would have been thrilled, but instead...

You are overvaluing a guy who was unlikely to make the team.  If Adams thought Bloom would be with the Sabres in two years, do you think he would have traded Bloom?  No.  He would have traded some other guy whom he felt wouldn't make it.  And since Adams is in control of who makes the Sabres, well, I'd have to trust his opinion on whether Bloom will be there or not.  He traded surplus.  Give. It. Up.

>I'm also not the only one who believes this.

No, I'm sure there are a thousand Wallys from Cheektowaga calling into WGR to bitch about it, but it doesn't make it a reasonable position.

 

EDITED:  A lot of spelling and grammar!

Edited March 1, 2023 by Eleven

[Cheektorado]

1 minute ago, Eleven said:

No, I'm sure there are a thousand Wallys from Cheektowaga calling into WGR to bitch about it, but it doesn't make it a reasonable position.

Just FWIW, I wasn't one of them.

[Eleven]

Just now, Cheektorado said:

Just FWIW, I wasn't one of them.

Yes you were.  I saw you.

[GASabresIUFAN]

11 minutes ago, Thorny said:

You are making a lot of good arguments here but imo you should focus them on his skills of analysis rather than modus of operation. It’s not plausible logical to suggest Adams didn’t *THINK* stillman addressed a need for now, AND later (fitting in with the idea we won’t spend assets to MERELY help now) because he’s under contract next year. There’s no other logical inference. 

It’s not “exactly what he did” with your Stillman trade as, by KA’s parameters, it’s well within. I’m not smart enough to do it but you or others could probably figure out why exactly Adams talent analysis of Stillman doesn’t line up with yours. In an effort to understand why KA made the move its the only avenue to pursue here. 

What does Stillman bring 

He is Fitz 2.0.  KA wanted another physical D in his organization and overpaid for one, especially when you consider Luke Schenn, a significantly better player on the same team, who went for a similar value.   KA is hoping that the terrible positioning he displayed the last two seasons is correctable in our system.  Sadly our system hasn't cured Bush or Fitz of similar issues.  They don't and Stillman doesn't have the hockey IQ to overcome his poor instincts.  I watched many Van games this season watching Schenn to see if the turnaround I saw in TB continued on a mediocre team (it did). What I saw of Stillman made me cringe and his advanced stats match the eye test.

I hope and pray DG and co can fix Stillman and turn him into a viable 3rd pairing guy or tough 7 that DG is comfortable throwing out there 18 minutes a night if needed and everyone can say I told you so.   However, to me this is KA betting on a long-shot to win the Triple Crown.

Edited March 1, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[Cheektorado]

Just now, Eleven said:

Yes you were.  I saw you.

That was my twin brother Stosh.

[French Collection]

41 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

My bad it was @French Collection who brought up Matt Irwin and that is who I originally responded to.  

I brought up Irwin. I hope Stillman is better and that this is not the only move.

[DarthEbriate]

50 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

This is where the arguments fail.  No one is asking KA to accelerate the plan.  All I and others are asking for is for KA to fix obvious holes in the roster.  That doesn't mean spending our pipeline, but what it does mean is making smart deals for guys like Marino to shepherd a young D group and gives decent play.  DR did this with Teppo and then with Lydman to go with homegrown Kalinin, Campbell, Tallinder and McKee.   

And I think almost everyone, myself included, is in agreement that they needed 2 defensemen this past offseason (Boushh + someone who made Bryson/Fitz/Pilut/Clague the battle for 7-8 where they belong) and a good goalie. Comrie had great save above expected last year behind Hellebuyck, but got hurt early and hasn't been able to supplant UPL since.

It appears Adams doesn't want to go and get the Teppo until he's made his decisions on the homegrown to keep and he's using all of this season as the decision on that core and he's not going to break anything up with the chemistry or locker room until the offseason.

15 minutes ago, Thorny said:

What does Stillman bring 

He's a Fitz replacement with experience in the Granato-style (from his time in CHI/FLA) that we lost because we had a hot goalie and an injury-returning goalie and chose to keep both of them.

21 minutes ago, Taro T said:

So, Johansson has now been a Cap twice and a Wild twice.  When does he come back to Buffalo?  (If they answer is 1 day after never, that works.)

If he does...  just make sure he's a 4W and not The Solution at 2C. 🍺

Edited March 1, 2023 by DarthEbriate

[Eleven]

1 minute ago, Cheektorado said:

That was my twin brother Stosh.

Now this--a guy who knows "Stosh"--this is a real Cheektowaga guy!

[Eleven]

5 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

He is Fitz 2.0.  KA wanted another physical D in his organization and overpaid for one

This is the problem.  Yes, Adams wanted another physical D, and he was right to (and needs a better one, still).  No, he didn't overpay.  If you have a thousand crates of toilet paper (which you are paying to store) and your family is starving, wouldn't it make sense to trade 100 crates for some food?

Edited March 1, 2023 by Eleven

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, Eleven said:

This is the problem.  Yes, Adams wanted another physical D.  No, he didn't overpay.  If you have a thousand crates of toilet paper and your family is starving, wouldn't it make sense to trade 100 crates for some food?

Did anybody actually trade their hoarded TP for food?  Don't believe anyone dumb enough to stock up on TP over food actually did so.

[GASabresIUFAN]

11 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

t appears Adams doesn't want to go and get the Teppo until he's made his decisions on the homegrown to keep and he's using all of this season as the decision on that core and he's not going to break anything up with the chemistry or locker room until the offseason.

KA knew who is homegrown core was this past off-season.  He extended Samuelsson long-term and had 2 1st overall players in his top3 in Dahlin and Power.  Dahlin at 22 was his most experienced D entering the season and he knew or should have known that a veteran presence was needed on the D.  He got one for the goalies in Anderson and had 2 (Z and KO) for the forwards.  Why not also get one for the D?  Instead we received the physical but positionally challenged Lyubushkin who had less NHL experience than Dahlin.

Edited March 1, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[Eleven]

Just now, Taro T said:

Did anybody actually trade their hoarded TP for food?  Don't believe anyone dumb enough to stock up on TP over food actually did so.

Leave Pegula out of this.

[Cheektorado]

1 minute ago, Eleven said:

Now this--a guy who knows "Stosh"--this is a real Cheektowaga guy!

You got that right.

Street hockey in the tennis courts at Dingens St. Park.