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sweetlou

SabreSpace Trade Proposal: Cozens and 8th for Cirelli

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4 minutes ago, Mustache of God said:

sweetlou always has the most insane trade proposals. i find it endearing in a way. 

He certainly has taken over for @thewookie1 in that regard.

Love you, wook.

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20 hours ago, dejeanneret said:

Way to much.  Cozens is a stud in the making.  And then throw an 8th in an extremely deep draft?  

You can't make trades based on fear of failure.  Cirelli could come to Buffalo and turn into a Vessey.  Then what?

Keep Cozens.  Draft a stud at 8. 

dont get the Cozens love.  He is doing what he should be for a top 10 draft pick in juniors.  His high ceiling is number two center.  More likely becomes a number three center.

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4 minutes ago, Xzy89c said:

dont get the Cozens love.  He is doing what he should be for a top 10 draft pick in juniors.  His high ceiling is number two center.  More likely becomes a number three center.

Isn't he putting up better numbers than Samson was at the same time/age?

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36 minutes ago, erickompositör72 said:

Isn't he putting up better numbers than Samson was at the same time/age?

Well kinda. Samson was better in his draft year than Cozens but Cozens was better in his D1 year than Sam. Sam needed to and did work on his 2-way game a bunch during his D1 year (as well as skating and gaining strength).

Cozens is a very different style than Sam. Sam is very much about being cerebral and setting up teammates and sliding into spots while making sure he is defensive sound. Cozens is more about driving the net and being a shot guy although he can pass as well. Cozens skating is faster/quicker than Sams which helps with this. 

43 minutes ago, Xzy89c said:

dont get the Cozens love.  He is doing what he should be for a top 10 draft pick in juniors.  His high ceiling is number two center.  More likely becomes a number three center.

His ceiling is a #1 center but he could certainly only turn into a #3 center. 

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1 more thing, I think the WHL has gotten better in the 5 years since Reinhart left. It has better defense and overall play now IMPO. 

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57 minutes ago, Xzy89c said:

dont get the Cozens love.  He is doing what he should be for a top 10 draft pick in juniors.  His high ceiling is number two center.  More likely becomes a number three center.

Cozens IMO has a great shot and is a great skater I think he can be a complete and lethal #2 center on the Sabres and with Eichel being the #1, it should help Cozens get better match-ups and produce more. I wouldn't deal him unless Im getting a real difference maker for the top line under a reasonably manageable contract.

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20 minutes ago, Ruff Around The Edges said:

Cozens IMO has a great shot and is a great skater I think he can be a complete and lethal #2 center on the Sabres and with Eichel being the #1, it should help Cozens get better match-ups and produce more. I wouldn't deal him unless Im getting a real difference maker for the top line under a reasonably manageable contract.

One thing that doesn't get talked about enough with Cozens is the "hard-to-play-against" factor. He's big, he's fast, he's skilled, and he plays with pace — he's coming hard at you all the time, on either side of the puck: I don't know if he's got 1C skill, but it's close and he ticks all the other boxes. I think he has Chris Kreider floor, and he has the potential to be a two-way threat and an elite 2C.

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2 hours ago, Xzy89c said:

dont get the Cozens love.  He is doing what he should be for a top 10 draft pick in juniors.  His high ceiling is number two center.  More likely becomes a number three center.

Could you elaborate on why you think so?  I think you are in the minority with that opinion, so I’m interested in your reasoning.

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20 minutes ago, Curt said:

Could you elaborate on why you think so?  I think you are in the minority with that opinion, so I’m interested in your reasoning.

I think this guy is real buddy - buddy with that other guy.  You know, that guy ...

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Everyone calm down.  I did not say I would make this trade, I wanted to see the reaction of Sabres fans of such a trade.  They need help now and don't want to waste another couple of years of Jack's prime to wait on more prospects.  Yes I knew it would be overpayment to get a guy like Cirelli, but again what other options are out there.  

When dealing specifically with Tampa I had to keep in mind that they would only be able to get picks and prospects in return since they have no salary available.

A much better option for me to take advantage of Tampa's situation would be to get Cirelli for Mitts, Thompson, and 2021 1st rd pick.  Not sure Tampa would go for that though.

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I think TB will work out a way to trade a couple of expensive vets and keep Cirelli.

However, if they do trade him, the Sabres aren't getting him without including #8 this year.

If they are lucky, TB might take #8, Mittlestadt and one of Borgen, Samuelsson or Johnson.

 

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On 7/20/2020 at 1:12 PM, sweetlou said:

I know the writing is on the wall for Cozens as being a very good prospect. You also never know what you are going to get at #8.

But to get a proven player in the league that could be your #2 center for the next seven years behind Jack, would it be worth the risk to get a player that is already ready!!

 

Woof, absolutely NOT.  This is piss poor asset management.   Cozens should not be included in any deal for a centermen.  I like Cirelli, but he's proven that he is not worth a top 10 pick in a heavy draft class and a very high end forward.  God, please no.  Mittelstadt and #8, fine.  This is just absurd.

Edited by TheCerebral1

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8 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Trading away assets to cover short term holes is exactly what got us to this point with Jack, where we have him and limited forward depth behind him. 

My point was that we are in a stronger position now, with several key players (in particular, Jack) being more developed than they were then.  It was too early to make those moves.  Additionally, the O'Reilly trade (to bring him in) was a great trade on it own merits.  It was the set of moves, in total, that Murray made, combined with Botterill trading the one piece from them that actually panned out for relatively little in return, that put us in the bad position.

I agree that making lots of that type of move (as Murray did) is a bad idea.  However, individual ones at the right time can have a big (positive) effect.  If we can get a legit second-line center, who can effectively cover (not just fill in) that spot for 2-3 years until Cozens is really ready to take it, we'd be notably better off.

 

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10 hours ago, Pimlach said:


I, being Punch, would offer Montour for Cirelli. When they reject it then be willing to throw in a #2.  That’s it.  If they want Risto, which they might, we start as an even swap.   We can talk about swapping some picks in both directions but we need to come out better on the picks - like we get their 2 for our 3.  

 

9 hours ago, JohnC said:

If the trade was upgraded to Risto plus our first for Cirelli I would make the deal. If a trade was proposed for Cozens and our #1 I would say no. 

Again, TBL is in the position to lose a Cirelli because they need to move salary OUT. 

They would not be in a position to take IN a contract like Ristos - or even Montours. 

Edited by Andrew Amerk

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18 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said:

 

Again, TBL is in the position to lose a Cirelli because they need to move salary OUT.

They would not be in a position to take IN a contract like Ristos - or even Montours. 

Tampa has a financial cap puzzle to work out whether they decide to retain Cirelli or if they move him. If they retain him they will shed players and contracts. If they acquire a player for him and picks the contract that they will bring in will probably be less than the contract that Cirelli would garner if signed. The point is Tampa will have to shed contracts whether they retain him or not.  

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3 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Tampa has a financial cap puzzle to work out whether they decide to retain Cirelli or if they move him. If they retain him they will shed players and contracts. If they acquire a player for him and picks the contract that they will bring in will probably be less than the contract that Cirelli would garner if signed. The point is Tampa will have to shed contracts whether they retain him or not.  

TBL has something like 1.2 in space right now, and Cirelli is $728,000 currently. Moving him out puts them at 2 million in cap space. Taking on Ristos 5.4 only further compounds the already existing problem in an even swap for the two. 

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1 hour ago, Andrew Amerk said:

TBL has something like 1.2 in space right now, and Cirelli is $728,000 currently. Moving him out puts them at 2 million in cap space. Taking on Ristos 5.4 only further compounds the already existing problem in an even swap for the two. 

Cirelli will command significantly more than $728,000 as a RFA. I would guess he will be somewhere in the vicinity of 6 million.

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On 7/20/2020 at 1:32 PM, dejeanneret said:

Way to much.  Cozens is a stud in the making.  And then throw an 8th in an extremely deep draft?  

You can't make trades based on fear of failure.  Cirelli could come to Buffalo and turn into a Vessey.  Then what?

Keep Cozens.  Draft a stud at 8. 

^ This

 

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The disappointing thing in trading another 3rd for Vesey is that you could wait until after the draft and then offer sheet Cirelli (provided he is willing). Just to disrupt them.

A solid $4.2M--$5M as a bridge, or $6ish for longer term and only give up the 2021 1st and 3rd --- and not this 2020 #8. TBL surely matches, but has to dump Palat, Johnson, or Gourde (Allll of them with NTCs) to do it. They're in cap trouble. The flat cap for 2-3 years is going to give some savvy GM ample opportunity to poach a really good player.

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3 hours ago, sabresparaavida said:

Cirelli will command significantly more than $728,000 as a RFA. I would guess he will be somewhere in the vicinity of 6 million.

Except Point signed for that after a 40-goal, 90+point season. Cirelli just put up 16 goals and 44 points.

Tampa will offer him a Reinhart-style bridge deal - two years at $3.5-4 per and if he wants to stay in Tampa, he’ll take it.

If he wants to get paid what he’s worth, things will get interesting.

Edited by dudacek
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5 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

The disappointing thing in trading another 3rd for Vesey is that you could wait until after the draft and then offer sheet Cirelli (provided he is willing). Just to disrupt them.

A solid $4.2M--$5M as a bridge, or $6ish for longer term and only give up the 2021 1st and 3rd --- and not this 2020 #8. TBL surely matches, but has to dump Palat, Johnson, or Gourde (Allll of them with NTCs) to do it. They're in cap trouble. The flat cap for 2-3 years is going to give some savvy GM ample opportunity to poach a really good player.

They’ll have to dump one of them and Killorn, at minimum, and probably either Cernak or Sergachev as well.

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19 hours ago, sweetlou said:

Thank you everyone for input...great insight on what everyone is thinking.  I just don't want the #8 to be a Nylander and Cozens to end up being a Grigorenko 

Not convinced we have a management group/scouts that'll know what to do with the 8th pick BUT I am 100% absolutely sure Cozens will NOT be a Grigorenko. 

Unless we add someone new, in 3 years I predict Cozens will be the 3rd best player on the roster (assuming Jack and Dahlin are still here of course).Yes, he will be better than Sam, Much better. 

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22 minutes ago, Torpedo Forecheck said:

I don't get all the love on here for Cirelli and him being the second line center savior. He'd be fine as a 3, but I'm not planning on him being much more.

He's a 2nd line center already for one of the best teams in the league. His 5v5 game is so good already that he was a Selke nominee. 

Edited by LGR4GM
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