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sweetlou

SabreSpace Trade Proposal: Cozens and 8th for Cirelli

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I know the writing is on the wall for Cozens as being a very good prospect. You also never know what you are going to get at #8.

But to get a proven player in the league that could be your #2 center for the next seven years behind Jack, would it be worth the risk to get a player that is already ready!!

Edited by sweetlou
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[This is an automated response]

The topic title is potentially misleading. Accurate titles help the community find topics relevant to their interests and avoids reader frustration. Please change the topic title to more accurately reflect content of the original post.The topic starter can edit the topic title line to make it more appropriate. 

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9 minutes ago, SDS said:

[This is an automated response]

The topic title is potentially misleading. Accurate titles help the community find topics relevant to their interests and avoids reader frustration. Please change the topic title to more accurately reflect content of the original post.The topic starter can edit the topic title line to make it more appropriate. 

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FYI, @SDS it appears the "automated" message is forced to black text, so in dark mode it's black text on slightly less back background.

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Way to much.  Cozens is a stud in the making.  And then throw an 8th in an extremely deep draft?  

You can't make trades based on fear of failure.  Cirelli could come to Buffalo and turn into a Vessey.  Then what?

Keep Cozens.  Draft a stud at 8. 

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No. I love Cirelli and would give up 8 for him, but he’s not proven enough to command 8th overall and a prospect worth more than that.

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I wouldn’t.  That would be the equivalent of trading picks #8 and probably #3-4-5 in this years Draft.  Is Cirelli worth that?  I get the appeal but it’s just so much to give up, especially with so many teams lacking cap room and probably looking to acquire high end, cheap, young assets right now.

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1 hour ago, sweetlou said:

I know the writing is on the wall for Cozens as being a very good prospect. You also never know what you are going to get at #8.

But to get a proven player in the league that could be your #2 center for the next seven years behind Jack, would it be worth the risk to get a player that is already ready!!

Cozens is on my no touch list. I'm willing to deal my first round pick to get a second line center or winger. But I wouldn't accept the offer you propose. So work on another proposal to get Cirelli who I believe is on Tampa's must retain list. 

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1 hour ago, MattPie said:

FYI, @SDS it appears the "automated" message is forced to black text, so in dark mode it's black text on slightly less back background.

And though you probably already knew this (though some here might not), if the text and background appear similar/the same as each other, if you highlight the text (as if to then cut & paste it) the 2 will go to contrasting colors and become legible. 

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2 hours ago, sweetlou said:

I know the writing is on the wall for Cozens as being a very good prospect. You also never know what you are going to get at #8.

But to get a proven player in the league that could be your #2 center for the next seven years behind Jack, would it be worth the risk to get a player that is already ready!!

No. Please stop. We did this. We literally executed this plan in 2015 and I remember I had the same thought then, it is a rush job that is short sighted. You need the cozens and 8th overalls to be good players so you have 3 years of entry level salary cap help. You need them to replenish the system and considering Buffalo doesn't have a system they are even more needed now. I want Cirelli but trading our 2 best young assets for him is short sighted. 

1 hour ago, dejeanneret said:

Way to much.  Cozens is a stud in the making.  And then throw an 8th in an extremely deep draft?  

You can't make trades based on fear of failure.  Cirelli could come to Buffalo and turn into a Vessey.  Then what?

Keep Cozens.  Draft a stud at 8. 

These sentences oppose each other. That said there is no chance Cirelli comes to Buffalo and is Vesey, 0. 

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Nope. Too much. 
 

#8 and maybe a Borgen or Bryson or Johnson plus something else like Mitts, sure. 

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4 hours ago, SDS said:

[This is an automated response]

The topic title is potentially illegitimate topic. Please change the topic to help the community find topics relevant to their interests and avoids frustration.  The topic starter can edit the topic title line to make it more appropriate atoll. 

Thank you.

Fixed for you.

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Thank you everyone for input...great insight on what everyone is thinking.  I just don't want the #8 to be a Nylander and Cozens to end up being a Grigorenko and then we are still stuck with no help for Jack and the future!!

I have always thought the draft is a crap shoot, some high end players turn out to be bust, others fill their roles as role players and some no names and un-drafted players end up being stars.  You really never know what you are going to get. It is all in the development between 18-22 years old.  I have always thought that if you can get a young guy who has proven to have qualities you are looking for, it is worth it to give up two prospects to get one proven!

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14 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

No. Please stop. We did this. We literally executed this plan in 2015 and I remember I had the same thought then, it is a rush job that is short sighted.

Let me preface by saying that there's no way that I make the proposed trade, but ...

There is a big difference between 2015 and now.  Jack was literally just coming into the league, Sam was in just his second season and we had no Dahlin.  Fast forward a few years and and that exact player was the biggest thing we were missing over the last two seasons, and will be again, if we don't bring someone in.  Also, while it was too soon, the biggest problem was the number of moves made all at once.  If you look at the O'Reilly trade in isolation, it would have hurt our prospect pool, but wouldn't have emptied the cupboard.

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21 minutes ago, carpandean said:

Let me preface by saying that there's no way that I make the proposed trade, but ...

There is a big difference between 2015 and now.  Jack was literally just coming into the league, Sam was in just his second season and we had no Dahlin.  Fast forward a few years and and that exact player was the biggest thing we were missing over the last two seasons, and will be again, if we don't bring someone in.  Also, while it was too soon, the biggest problem was the number of moves made all at once.  If you look at the O'Reilly trade in isolation, it would have hurt our prospect pool, but wouldn't have emptied the cupboard.

Trading away assets to cover short term holes is exactly what got us to this point with Jack, where we have him and limited forward depth behind him. 

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3 hours ago, sweetlou said:

Thank you everyone for input...great insight on what everyone is thinking.  I just don't want the #8 to be a Nylander and Cozens to end up being a Grigorenko and then we are still stuck with no help for Jack and the future!!

I have always thought the draft is a crap shoot, some high end players turn out to be bust, others fill their roles as role players and some no names and un-drafted players end up being stars.  You really never know what you are going to get. It is all in the development between 18-22 years old.  I have always thought that if you can get a young guy who has proven to have qualities you are looking for, it is worth it to give up two prospects to get one proven!

Cozens does not play the game like Grigorenko (sp ?).  Grigorenko skated around like a roller hockey floater.  Cozen plays like a Canadian, with more grittiness. This years #8 should be a good player too.  Cirelli is not worth Cozens and #8.   No way.  
 

I, being Punch, would offer Montour for Cirelli. When they reject it then be willing to throw in a #2.  That’s it.  If they want Risto, which they might, we start as an even swap.   We can talk about swapping some picks in both directions but we need to come out better on the picks - like we get their 2 for our 3.  
 

We need a GM with balls.  We need to stop negotiating from a position of weakness.   This board is enamored with Cirelli.   I think he is better than Montour but less than Risto.   I have no reason to think Cozens will not end up on par with a Cirelli.  
 

Mitts is a guy we may need to move.  One more disappointing year and his stock will drop.  

 

Edited by Pimlach
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9 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Trading away assets to cover short term holes is exactly what got us to this point with Jack, where we have him and limited forward depth behind him. 

That is what GMTM did.  He gave up too much in his trades and his top acquisitions did not pan out.  He was in a hurry and made mistakes because of it.  

Edited by Pimlach

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35 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I, being Punch, would offer Montour for Cirelli. When they reject it then be willing to throw in a #2.  That’s it.  If they want Risto, which they might, we start as an even swap.   We can talk about swapping some picks in both directions but we need to come out better on the picks - like we get their 2 for our 3.  
 

We need a GM with balls.  We need to stop negotiating from a position of weakness.   This board is enamored with Cirelli.   I think he is better than Montour but less than Risto.   I have no reason to think Cozens will not end up on par with a Cirelli.  
 

Risto straight for Cirelli would robbery on the Sabres part. Cirelli just got nominated for the Selke at age 22 and went from .476 to .647 ppg all while getting almost no powerplay time, in fact only 5 of his 44 points in 68 games came with the man advantage. Risto is so far below Cirelli that a 1v1 trade is laughable from Tampa's standpoint... or they have a worse GM than Botts

I'm sorry the more I read this the more I shake my head. The thought that Ristolainen is more valuable than Anthony Cirelli is just false. 

Edited by LGR4GM

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3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Risto straight for Cirelli would robbery on the Sabres part. Cirelli just got nominated for the Selke at age 22 and went from .476 to .647 ppg all while getting almost no powerplay time, in fact only 5 of his 44 points in 68 games came with the man advantage. Risto is so far below Cirelli that a 1v1 trade is laughable from Tampa's standpoint... or they have a worse GM than Botts

If the trade was upgraded to Risto plus our first for Cirelli I would make the deal. If a trade was proposed for Cozens and our #1 I would say no. 

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18 hours ago, sweetlou said:

I know the writing is on the wall for Cozens as being a very good prospect. You also never know what you are going to get at #8.

But to get a proven player in the league that could be your #2 center for the next seven years behind Jack, would it be worth the risk to get a player that is already ready!!

NFW.  This proposal should get you banished from the board, and I love Cirelli. 

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