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Kane traded to San Jose for a Cond. ‘19 1st, Dan O’ Regan and Conditional 4th

Brawndo

By Brawndo
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Weave Hall of Famer

Weave

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So, a lottery ticket with a small chance of becoming a 50% chance at an NHL'er, an AHL'er, and a lottery ticket with a 10% chance at hitting.

 

Good thing we got some value for Kane. :blink:

 

This team can't afford to downgrade it's talent, but yet that is exactly what it continues to do. 

Edited by We've
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TrueBlueGED Hall of Famer

TrueBlueGED

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I didn't pay any attention to how Vegas built their team in one year. Are there lessons to be learned there?

Hope Dale Tallon decides to trade 2/3 of a top line again to protect Bjugstad?

So, a lottery ticket with a small chance of becoming a 50% chance at an NHL'er, an AHL'er, and a lottery ticket with a 10% chance at hitting.

 

Good thing we got some value for Kane. :blink:

 

This team can't afford to downgrade it's talent, but yet that is exactly what it continues to do.

And for as talented as Kane is, GMs weren't willing to give up anything for him.

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WildCard Hall of Famer

WildCard

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Hope Dale Tallon decides to trade 2/3 of a top line again to protect Bjugstad?

 

And for as talented as Kane is, GMs weren't willing to give up anything for him.

So maybe we were right about him all along then

 

Flagg made a good point, I've spent his entire time here bashing him, so I should be happy he's gone. Still, the next two years don't look bright for us

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Thorny Hall of Famer

Thorny

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Yup, it’s Lottery protected. Asked Paul Hamilton on Twitter. Not sure when it would defer to, I guess 2020.

 

So if it doesn’t remain a 2nd, it can be at best (depending on your preference) a later 2019 1st, or a 2020 1st.

 

Edit - Or does Lottery protected mean they can only defer if it wins a top 3 slot? Not sure.

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Weave Hall of Famer

Weave

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Hope Dale Tallon decides to trade 2/3 of a top line again to protect Bjugstad?

 

And for as talented as Kane is, GMs weren't willing to give up anything for him.

 

I'm not complaining about anything JB did.  The market for Kane was poor, obviously.  My beef is with the "we have to get something" mentality that leads to very good players being moved for baubles.

 

This probably isn't the thread for it, but....

I disagree wholeheartedly with the idea that it is somehow prudent to move a rental player for pennies on the dollar.  You almost never get back the quality of player you give up.  It is a guaranteed downgrade to your roster in nearly all cases.  IMO, if you let a player that you don't expect to re-sign go to rental stage, you are being incredibly irresponsible.  Move that player before the rental season in an honest to God hockey trade that gets equal value returned.  Anything else is setting your team backwards.  And this team has been doing exactly that since, what? 2011? 2012? 

 

In this case (Kane), my reaction is sour grapes.  JB is in his first year, so it's not like he was around to make that decision last season.  But this organization simply does not have enough depth of talent to continue to move players for a fraction of their on ice value as rentals. I'd hope any one year contract players that aren't part of the path forward get moved this offseason in hockey trades before we are forced to suffer through another deadline day of lottery tickets and AHL players that only move this team further backwards.

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Thorny Hall of Famer

Thorny

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I'm confused now, what are the actual details of this trade ? 

 

Lottery protected or kane signing ?

 

I don’t know where they are calling it a conditional 1st, as technically it’s a conditional 2nd. That’s the base.

 

- - -

 

Conditional 2nd in 2019, Conditional 4th in 2019, and F O’Regan.

 

Re: The 2nd - Becomes a 1st If SJ wins the Cup this season, or Kane re-signs this summer (Unclear if he has to sign pre- July 1 for that condition to be met)

 

If it DOES become a 1st, it’s lottery protected. So I guess that means if it wins a Top-3 Lottery spot, it’ll defer to 2020.

 

Re: The 4th - SJ has the option to defer to 2020 3rd.

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Scottysabres First Liner

Scottysabres

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I'm confused now, what are the actual details of this trade ? 

 

Lottery protected or kane signing ?

 

2019 conditional 1st

Coditions are sharks win the cup or re-sign Kane. If neither happens 2019 2nd

2019 4th rd pick

Condition is sharks could choose to keep it making it a 2020 3rd rd pick.

Presumabely if they see someone they like come draft time.

And of course, putting the band back together from Eichel's BU days. O'Regan. I think many here are surprised by Rodriguez, let's hope the same for this one.

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Taro T Hall of Famer

Taro T

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2019 conditional 1st

Coditions are sharks win the cup or re-sign Kane. If neither happens 2019 2nd

2019 4th rd pick

Condition is sharks could choose to keep it making it a 2020 3rd rd pick.

Presumabely if they see someone they like come draft time.

And of course, putting the band back together from Eichel's BU days. O'Regan. I think many here are surprised by Rodriguez, let's hope the same for this one.

Anybody remember who the starting D pair at BU was in '14-'15? As long as we're reassembling the band, might as well go for the works. :lol: (Don't want their goalie. Guy choked at crunch time.)

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Sabel79 First Liner

Sabel79

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I'm not complaining about anything JB did.  The market for Kane was poor, obviously.  My beef is with the "we have to get something" mentality that leads to very good players being moved for baubles.

 

This probably isn't the thread for it, but....

I disagree wholeheartedly with the idea that it is somehow prudent to move a rental player for pennies on the dollar.  You almost never get back the quality of player you give up.  It is a guaranteed downgrade to your roster in nearly all cases.  IMO, if you let a player that you don't expect to re-sign go to rental stage, you are being incredibly irresponsible.  Move that player before the rental season in an honest to God hockey trade that gets equal value returned.  Anything else is setting your team backwards.  And this team has been doing exactly that since, what? 2011? 2012? 

 

In this case (Kane), my reaction is sour grapes.  JB is in his first year, so it's not like he was around to make that decision last season.  But this organization simply does not have enough depth of talent to continue to move players for a fraction of their on ice value as rentals. I'd hope any one year contract players that aren't part of the path forward get moved this offseason in hockey trades before we are forced to suffer through another deadline day of lottery tickets and AHL players that only move this team further backwards.

While I completely understand the line of thought behind this, in the specific instance of Evander Kane, I fail to see how it can be argued that the something (actual value of that something yet to be determined) gotten in return for the player, if indeed it is the case that there was no way he was coming back, is somehow not the best move right now.

 

The slightly better than zero percent chance that anything coming back turns into something useful surely beats out the nothing gained when he walks.

 

We can, of course, discuss the circumstances bringing us to this point, but JBOTs really isn’t to blame for that, by a long shot. He got what he could.

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inkman Hall of Famer

inkman

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So, a lottery ticket with a small chance of becoming a 50% chance at an NHL'er, an AHL'er, and a lottery ticket with a 10% chance at hitting.

 

Good thing we got some value for Kane. :blink:

 

This team can't afford to downgrade it's talent, but yet that is exactly what it continues to do.

Word has it (can't remember who on WGR said it) that Kane's agent were so far from where Botterill was financially that the conversation couldn't even get started. I'm speculating JBot wanted to get him near his current price ($5-6 mill) and Evander is somewhere around $8 mill. If we had signed him to O'Reilly's deal, this place would have imploded the same way it did over the trade.
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nfreeman Hall of Famer

nfreeman

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I'm not complaining about anything JB did.  The market for Kane was poor, obviously.  My beef is with the "we have to get something" mentality that leads to very good players being moved for baubles.

 

This probably isn't the thread for it, but....

I disagree wholeheartedly with the idea that it is somehow prudent to move a rental player for pennies on the dollar.  You almost never get back the quality of player you give up.  It is a guaranteed downgrade to your roster in nearly all cases.  IMO, if you let a player that you don't expect to re-sign go to rental stage, you are being incredibly irresponsible.  Move that player before the rental season in an honest to God hockey trade that gets equal value returned.  Anything else is setting your team backwards.  And this team has been doing exactly that since, what? 2011? 2012? 

 

In this case (Kane), my reaction is sour grapes.  JB is in his first year, so it's not like he was around to make that decision last season.  But this organization simply does not have enough depth of talent to continue to move players for a fraction of their on ice value as rentals. I'd hope any one year contract players that aren't part of the path forward get moved this offseason in hockey trades before we are forced to suffer through another deadline day of lottery tickets and AHL players that only move this team further backwards.

 

I generally agree with this.

 

However, I don't think we can discount the possibility that Kane has certain qualities that made the Sabres not interested in keeping him under any circumstances. 

 

If that was the case, then their only choice was to trade him for the best return they could get.

 

 

I don’t know where they are calling it a conditional 1st, as technically it’s a conditional 2nd. That’s the base.

 

- - -

 

Conditional 2nd in 2019, Conditional 4th in 2019, and F O’Regan.

 

Re: The 2nd - Becomes a 1st If SJ wins the Cup this season, or Kane re-signs this summer (Unclear if he has to sign pre- July 1 for that condition to be met)

 

If it DOES become a 1st, it’s lottery protected. So I guess that means if it wins a Top-3 Lottery spot, it’ll defer to 2020.

 

Re: The 4th - SJ has the option to defer to 2020 3rd.

 

Interesting.  I thought it meant that if they finish out of the playoffs next year and are in the lottery then the Sabres don't get it.  But your alternative makes more sense (and is better for the Sabres).

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Weave Hall of Famer

Weave

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While I completely understand the line of thought behind this, in the specific instance of Evander Kane, I fail to see how it can be argued that the something (actual value of that something yet to be determined) gotten in return for the player, if indeed it is the case that there was no way he was coming back, is somehow not the best move right now.

 

The slightly better than zero percent chance that anything coming back turns into something useful surely beats out the nothing gained when he walks.

 

We can, of course, discuss the circumstances bringing us to this point, but JBOTs really isn’t to blame for that, by a long shot. He got what he could.

 

Unless Botteril thinks Kane is part of a locker room problem (and there is no way we can have any clue about this), I think the team would have been better served by icing the best team possible to continue to learn how to win than by obtaining a low probability lottery ticket and an AHLer.

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