Fire Phil Fan Club

[Sabel79]

Pining for the dedicated mediocrity of Dreary "Small Ice" Dan.

 

Lulz.

Not for nothing, but Disco was on the ESPN on Ice podcast yesterday (wysinski's new gig) extolling the virtue of +/- and stating that he's sure all sorts of guys dump the puck in and get off to improve their CORSI. As opposed to dumping the puck in and then not winning it down low because you were standing still at the blue line while the D are left abandoned to fire it down the ice in your general direction.

 

No wonder pi Stans so hard for him.. (rolls eyes emoji)

[Taro T]

Pining for the dedicated mediocrity of Dreary "Small Ice" Dan.

 

Lulz.

Rather than "Dreary Dan," it seems Dan Jauron would be more appropriate as a purjorative & accurate nickname. As, it really seems that his style of play is designed to drive bad & good teams to the NHL's version of 7-9.

[erickompositör72]

What we know about Phil Housely as a coach is that he's not a prodigy/savant. Doesn't mean he won't turn out to be a fantastic coach. He's learning on the job. The Sabres sacrificed a season for Phil to get his together. Hopefully it pays off.

[Wyldnwoody44]

Even on nhl games on Xbox you can make different lines playing different styles, it's very common, if the D isn't good enough to know the assignments then we need better D.

[That Aud Smell]

Sabres fandom, where how you lose is more important than winning.

 

The eff you talkin' about?

 

Rather than "Dreary Dan," it seems Dan Jauron would be more appropriate as a purjorative & accurate nickname. As, it really seems that his style of play is designed to drive bad & good teams to the NHL's version of 7-9.

 

BINGO.

 

Housley may fail, but my sense is he'd be intent on failing, if in fact he must, because he tried to get this team geared up to play real-life big boy NHL hockey, not that small ice, low event bullspit Dan Jauron preaches.

Edited March 7, 2018 by That Aud Smell

[pi2000]

The eff you talkin' about?

 

 

BINGO.

 

Housley may fail, but my sense is he'd be intent on failing, if in fact he must, because he tried to get this team geared up to play real-life big boy NHL hockey, not that small ice, low event bullspit Dan Jauron preaches.

 

They're worse in every single category this season.   If that's "real-life big boy hockey", then I'd like to politely unsubscribe.

 

If Bylsma had Eichel for the first half of the season last year, there's no question they make the playoffs... and that's with a worse roster than Dr. Phyllis has at his disposal... but go ahead and all over Cup Champion Danny O'Bylsma because that's what the hive mind wants you to think.   How about having an original thought and making an objective opinion based on the actual facts.

 

Fact #1 - They suck.

Fact #2 - They're exponentially worse THAN last season.

Fact #3 - They have a deeper more talented roster THAN last season.

Fact #4 - https://public.tableau.com/profile/sean.tierney#!/vizhome/Team-leveldata-shotsandgoals/Pace

Fact #5 - For those complaining that we don't have the depth scoring we had with guys like Foligno and Ennis... Those clowns have combine for 16 goals this season on a Cup contender.    New comers Pouliout and Pominville have combined for 23 goals. 

[PerreaultForever]

Have you even considered the idea that depth scoring is down because of Phil's style he's teaching?   He's asking grinders to play a speed/finesse game... they can't.   Let them get pucks deep, chase, bang and create turnovers.   The coaches job is to put his players in the best position to succeed.   He's failed at that and it's reflected in the standings.

Aside from Nolan, do we have any actual grinders? I mean real grinders? Seems to me most of our depth guys are 'tweeners, not quite tough enough to be grinders and not quite fast enough to be speed guys. AHL players really. 4th liners trying to be 3rd liners. 

My own view is that this has always been the plan and they knew they'd fail this year. It's a tank for Dahlin year without ever verbalizing it. 

Maybe Housley was hired because they figured he'd be the best available coach for Dahlin. 

 

In any event what you seem to want is a return to what Bylsma did and look where that got us. I'd rather take the transition year and slow learning curve if in the end we have a fast explosive team a year or two from now. 

[Weave]

It’s great to say the coach needs to adjust his system to his players, but you can’t change the system for each line. You can’t say Jack your line plays fast break, ROR you need to do puck control, but Larsson you dump and chase. However does your D group support lines all doing different things? You need one system, one style. If Jbot and Wowie are on the same page, it’s up to Jbot to get him the players he needs to run the system they want to run. If Larsson, Z, Etc, can’t succeed in the system, then they need to be gone, and they will be.

 

 

Bylsma coached Pittsburgh to a Cup doing exactly that.

 

Sabres fandom, where how you lose is more important than winning.

 

This is so true it hurts.

[Randall Flagg]

When we add talent to this general style of play, we will succeed more than we would have with the same level of talent playing Dan Bylsma hockey. It is so obvious that it got Dan fired 2 years into the second biggest contract a coach had ever signed with not a single person second guessing the firing. 

That is the last thing I am ever going to say about Bylsma or Housley or systems to be honest. I'm actually sick of it. Maybe it's Jackson's E&M putting me in this mood, but jesus christ i'm done

[SwampD]

When we add talent to this general style of play, we will succeed more than we would have with the same level of talent playing Dan Bylsma hockey. It is so obvious that it got Dan fired 2 years into the second biggest contract a coach had ever signed with not a single person second guessing the firing. 

That is the last thing I am ever going to say about Bylsma or Housley or systems to be honest. I'm actually sick of it. Maybe it's ###### Jackson's E&M putting me in this mood, but jesus christ i'm done

I feel it my duty to pull you back in.

 

There is just no way to prove this. You say that Phil isn't winning because there is no talent at depth and they aren't scoring, but at least the stars are scoring. Yet Dans depth was WAY worse and his stars were 19 and freakin 20!

 

There are more ways to win than the current FS guys would have you believe. Given the right talent for the right style of play and DD could have won. And like I've said before, a good team will come along playing a different style, and then everyone will be chasing that style down.

 

Analytics is the death of creativity. Let's all enjoy what we've seen before, cuz that worked.

[PASabreFan]

I feel it my duty to pull you back in.

 

There is just no way to prove this. You say that Phil isn't winning because there is no talent at depth and they aren't scoring, but at least the stars are scoring. Yet Dans depth was WAY worse and his stars were 19 and freakin 20!

 

There are more ways to win than the current FS guys would have you believe. Given the right talent for the right style of play and DD could have won. And like I've said before, a good team will come along playing a different style, and then everyone will be chasing that style down.

 

Analytics is the death of creativity. Let's all enjoy what we've seen before, cuz that worked.

Perfectly said. Remember paint by numbers?

[Radar]

They're worse in every single category this season.   If that's "real-life big boy hockey", then I'd like to politely unsubscribe.

 

If Bylsma had Eichel for the first half of the season last year, there's no question they make the playoffs... and that's with a worse roster than Dr. Phyllis has at his disposal... but go ahead and ###### all over Cup Champion Danny O'Bylsma because that's what the hive mind wants you to think.   How about having an original thought and making an objective opinion based on the actual facts.

 

Fact #1 - They suck.

Fact #2 - They're exponentially worse THAN last season.

Fact #3 - They have a deeper more talented roster THAN last season.

Fact #4 - https://public.tableau.com/profile/sean.tierney#!/vizhome/Team-leveldata-shotsandgoals/Pace

Fact #5 - For those complaining that we don't have the depth scoring we had with guys like Foligno and Ennis... Those clowns have combine for 16 goals this season on a Cup contender.    New comers Pouliout and Pominville have combined for 23 goals.

 

I don't think we can out of hand just dismiss what you're saying. I certainly think it's time,though, to turn our attention toward Housley and leave Dan Bylsma out of our assessments. I'm not sure Housley is going to be a good or a bad coach but comparing him to anyone else doesn't determine it either way. I do think this team's better than it's record.

[bunomatic]

I don't think we can out of hand just dismiss what you're saying. I certainly think it's time,though, to turn our attention toward Housley and leave Dan Bylsma out of our assessments. I'm not sure Housley is going to be a good or a bad coach but comparing him to anyone else doesn't determine it either way. I do think this team's better than it's record.

Watching this Calgary game this team resembles its record.

[That Aud Smell]

They're worse in every single category this season.   If that's "real-life big boy hockey", then I'd like to politely unsubscribe.

 

If Bylsma had Eichel for the first half of the season last year, there's no question they make the playoffs... and that's with a worse roster than Dr. Phyllis has at his disposal... but go ahead and ###### all over Cup Champion Danny O'Bylsma because that's what the hive mind wants you to think.   How about having an original thought and making an objective opinion based on the actual facts.

 

Fact #1 - They suck.

Fact #2 - They're exponentially worse THAN last season.

Fact #3 - They have a deeper more talented roster THAN last season.

Fact #4 - https://public.tableau.com/profile/sean.tierney#!/vizhome/Team-leveldata-shotsandgoals/Pace

Fact #5 - For those complaining that we don't have the depth scoring we had with guys like Foligno and Ennis... Those clowns have combine for 16 goals this season on a Cup contender.    New comers Pouliout and Pominville have combined for 23 goals. 

 

I won't let the current suckitude prompt me to forget how much I effing despised the team's play under Dreary Dan. Even while they were earning more points in the standings. Nope. Sorry. That's a Faustian bargain I will not make.

 

I am far from sold on Housley. I really, really (really) don't know whether he can be an effective HC. But I'll remain adamant that, in order to become a really good club, the Sabres as an organ-eye-zay-shun needed to embrace and execute a system that involved more risk, more upside, and more imagination than that which Hot Daniel preached.

 

So, yeah. Kindly take that bullpuck and shove it. I'll read takes and assess them on their own merits, and then respond to them, without questioning a poster's mental faculties or independence of thought. I encourage you to do the same.

 

I certainly think it's time,though, to turn our attention toward Housley and leave Dan Bylsma out of our assessments. I'm not sure Housley is going to be a good or a bad coach but comparing him to anyone else doesn't determine it either way. I do think this team's better than it's record.

 

Let the church say 'amen.'

 

Although I'm not so sure about this part.

[pi2000]

I won't let the current suckitude prompt me to forget how much I effing despised the team's play under Dreary Dan. Even while they were earning more points in the standings. Nope. Sorry. That's a Faustian bargain I will not make.

 

I am far from sold on Housley. I really, really (really) don't know whether he can be an effective HC. But I'll remain adamant that, in order to become a really good club, the Sabres as an organ-eye-zay-shun needed to embrace and execute a system that involved more risk, more upside, and more imagination than that which Hot Daniel preached.

 

So, yeah. Kindly take that bullpuck and shove it. I'll read takes and assess them on their own merits, and then respond to them, without questioning a poster's mental faculties or independence of thought. I encourage you to do the same.

 

 

Let the church say 'amen.'

 

Although I'm not so sure about this part.

 

Apologies for the personal attack, Aud.   You're one of the more original posters here, I enjoy reading your takes.    I was out of line.

 

 

I don't think we can out of hand just dismiss what you're saying. I certainly think it's time,though, to turn our attention toward Housley and leave Dan Bylsma out of our assessments. I'm not sure Housley is going to be a good or a bad coach but comparing him to anyone else doesn't determine it either way. I do think this team's better than it's record.

 

Considering Bylsma coached this team (arguably with a worse set of d-men, and less depth scoring) to an 80 point season just one year ago... you can't just dismiss the comparison. 

 

I'm not saying Bylsma is the answer, just that Housley is doing less with more.

 

Man how things might be different if they canned Bylsma and hired Gallant when he became available last season.    IIRC, Gallant was let go in the middle of a Sabres slump in late Nov... but they had the build in excuse the Eichel was out injured.   So maybe if Eichel doesn't get hurt, they can Bylsma and hire Gallant at that time.....    Would Vegas be where they are today?  Would Buffalo?

[dudacek]

I think we can say Bylsma was a failure independent of whether or not Housley is the same.

Smell articulated the issue with Dan very well, to which I will add the unmistakeable conclusion that he had lost the team.

 

Phil has a lot to prove and much of that rests on the first 30 games of next year.

[pi2000]

I think we can say Bylsma was a failure independent of whether or not Housley is the same.

Smell articulated the issue with Dan very well, to which I will add the unmistakeable conclusion that he had lost the team.

 

Phil has a lot to prove and much of that rests on the first 30 games of next year.

 

What has Phil done this season to be given that chance?   eg, what have they gotten better at?  which players have taken that step?

[Weave]

I think we can say Bylsma was a failure independent of whether or not Housley is the same.

Smell articulated the issue with Dan very well, to which I will add the unmistakeable conclusion that he had lost the team.

 

Phil has a lot to prove and much of that rests on the first 30 games of next year.

I still maintain that it is not possible to accurately judge Bylsma’s system performance because the team played maybe 10-15 games tops where they actually followed his game plan. The rest of the season was a bunch of players doing whatever the hell they wanted.

 

That Bylsma lost the room is the one we can use to say he’s a lousy coach. We know that happened in P-burgh too. I’d say that’s his real Achilles heel.

[dudacek]

What has Phil done this season to be given that chance?   eg, what have they gotten better at?  which players have taken that step?

I think this has been pretty well-articulated:

1) more shots for

2) fewer shots against

3) improved play of key players Eichel and Reinhart, and most of the other youngsters

4) better transition game

5) more sustained play in oppositions zone

6) a record that has improved as the season progressed

 

None of this matters if it translates into an 8-15-2 start.

But I’d rather take that risk again with a reinforced roster than start from scratch, yet again, while reinforcing the perception that the inmates run the asylum.

[GASabresIUFAN]

What has Phil done this season to be given that chance? eg, what have they gotten better at? which players have taken that step?

Reinhart?

 

They are actually better.

14 pts the first 20 games

15 pts the next 20

16 pts in the 3rd 20

And so far in games 61-67 they are 4-3 for 8 pts.

 

Ga has dropped from 71 to 64 to 63

GF has increased from 46 to 42 but then up to 55

Goal differential has also decreased from -24 to -22 to -8

 

Is this substantial improvement? Not really, but they are better. Special teams are also improved.

Edited March 8, 2018 by GASabresIUFAN

[That Aud Smell]

Apologies for the personal attack, Aud Smell.   You're one of the more original posters here, I enjoy reading your takes.    I was out of line.

 

 

As for objective data(lytics) on the team's ... improvement from last season to this season: Has that been captured somewhere here? 

Edited March 8, 2018 by That Aud Smell

[That Aud Smell]

Because I'm noodling around at hockey reference, and it looks like the team's Corsi % and Fenwick % are *just* slightly lower this season. About the same, really.

 

If you were to annualize the team's Fenwick Against (SOGs and Shots Attempted (but excluding blocks)) for *this* season, the team would end up at around 3019 FA for 2017-2018.

 

Last season, the team's total FA was 3122.  So, that's an improvement of ~1.3 FA per game? Yay?

 

Not for nothing: Last year's team had a much better PDO than this year's team -- 99.2 (20th overall) last season v. 97.9 (30th) this season to date. This year's team has a  better SH% (6.7 v. 7.1), but the SV% has fallen off quite a bit (92.5 SV% this season v. 90.8 SV% this season).

 

Come to think of it, that makes sense, if we are to credit Housley's choice to take more risks and leave the goalie exposed.

Edited March 8, 2018 by That Aud Smell

[Sabre fan]

Have you even considered the idea that depth scoring is down because of Phil's style he's teaching?   He's asking grinders to play a speed/finesse game... they can't.   Let them get pucks deep, chase, bang and create turnovers.   The coaches job is to put his players in the best position to succeed.   He's failed at that and it's reflected in the standings.

 

Consider there are infinite parallel universes (there are).  In at least one of those universes NHL standings are not based on results, rather they're based purely on coaching philosophy.   Flagg lives in that universe.

this is where Babs excels...he has the Leafs playing to each individual's strengths and never asks them to do something they are not capable of doing

[That Aud Smell]

this is where Babs excels...he has the Leafs playing to each individual's strengths and never asks them to do something they are not capable of doing

 

I've heard this discussed -- not just as to Babcock. That certain coaches succeed in not even having *a system* -- they have several. Or, at least, systems 1A, 1B, 1B.i, etc.

[pi2000]

I think this has been pretty well-articulated:

1) more shots for

2) fewer shots against

3) improved play of key players Eichel and Reinhart, and most of the other youngsters

4) better transition game

5) more sustained play in oppositions zone

6) a record that has improved as the season progressed

 

None of this matters if it translates into an 8-15-2 start.

But I’d rather take that risk again with a reinforced roster than start from scratch, yet again, while reinforcing the perception that the inmates run the asylum.

 

1) 5-on-5 they're generating 40 shot attempts/gm this season vs 42.5 last season...  winner: BYLSMA

2) 5-on-5 they're allowing 45.4 shot attempts/game this season vs 47.5 last season... winner: HOUSLEY

3) Eichel ppg is on par with his ppg under Bylsma (0.96 vs 0.93), Reinhart is slightly worse under Housley (0.54 vs 0.59).   Although I would say Eichel's game has matured, Reinhart looks great the last 20 games.. although I would argue that's a result of them just growing up as players.  winner: PUSH

4) Not sure how you quantify this... they avg 7 giveaways/gm under Housley vs 7.6/gm under Bylsma.... winner: HOUSLEY (barely)

5) Again, not sure how you quantify this other than 5-on-5 SAT%... Housley: 46.9% Bylsma: 47.2%.... winner: BYLSMA

6) In Bylsma's first year they went 5-8 in Feb.   Housley went 6-8 this past Feb.  I would argue the Feb 2018 team has much more talent than the Feb 2016 team... but... winner: PUSH