Hoss Posted June 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 Killer stuff, JJ. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 Thanks. Not sure if he can be that #1 QB type that Murray has been talking about, but he can certainly be a well rounded top 4 for a bunch of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 Explains why Matthew Coller was whining about the trade non-stop. You'd have thought that they traded his life-long best friend. I like Coller, but his whinging over this trade made him look ... weird. And odd. And sorta not smart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 I like Coller, but his whinging over this trade made him look ... weird. And odd. And sorta not smart. He certainly took it to an extreme and it seemed almost personal for him. But his points were sound, no? Which of his points made him look dumb? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 He certainly took it to an extreme and it seemed almost personal for him. But his points were sound, no? Which of his points made him look dumb? The ones that weren't agreed with. Duh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted June 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 Thanks. Not sure if he can be that #1 QB type that Murray has been talking about, but he can certainly be a well rounded top 4 for a bunch of years. Murray hasn't been talking about him as a powerplay dman, he's been talking about him as a #1 PK dman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 He certainly took it to an extreme and it seemed almost personal for him. But his points were sound, no? Which of his points made him look dumb?His insistence that the trade made no sense. It makes perfect sense. On a side note, I had no issue with Pisser. His game was nice but he may be a shining example of why one can't rely solely on analytics. As GMTM so quaintly put it, mark is an analytics darling but the eyeballs leave you wanting more. He looked like a tuned up version of Matt Ellis. Nothing bad is going to happen when he's on the ice but good things aren't necessarily in the fold either. I also get the feeling Tim likes his D big and mean, Mark is neither. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 His insistence that the trade made no sense. It makes perfect sense. On a side note, I had no issue with Pisser. His game was nice but he may be a shining example of why one can't rely solely on analytics. As GMTM so quaintly put it, mark is an analytics darling but the eyeballs leave you wanting more. He looked like a tuned up version of Matt Ellis. Nothing bad is going to happen when he's on the ice but good things aren't necessarily in the fold either. I also get the feeling Tim likes his D big and mean, Mark is neither. Sir, with respect...one cannot say they have no issue with Pisser and proceed to compare him, in any way, to Matt Ellis. Just can't do it! :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 I like Coller, but his whinging over this trade made him look ... weird. And odd. And sorta not smart. I had to turn it off. He was just awful. There has to be something to the possession numbers Pysyk has, and the lack of (apparently) for Kulikov. There have to be wide gaps in there that tell a different story when accurately and reasonably filled in. My eyeball test told me Pysyk was never "hard to play against". My eyes told me that a Pysyk-type player probably would show his weaknesses during the Conference Finals and Stanley Cup rounds. Those were fricking tough-played games with lots of battling. Risto doesn't go out of his way to hit, the hits line themselves up for him. If Kulikov plays a similar game to Risto and can QB a PP, and is left-handed...what's not to like? Pysyk doesn't have those qualities, which is not to say Pysyk is a bad D-man, but he wasn't/isn't a fit for this team the way DD and GMTM are putting it together. Plus, this allowed Murray the chance to move up and get a man he wants. I'm still a believin' Murray knows what he wants in a player and knows how he wants his team to fit together. You can talk about Bogo and Kane all you want, frankly I think Kane is panning out, but sometimes you're going to miss the mark a little. The Kane part of that trade got us Eichel - a huge component in that transaction IMHO. Anyway, look at ROR, Reinhart, Eichel, Kane, and now Nylander, and possibly Vesey and possibly Stamkos. He kept D-Lo which I think is great. I'm looking at those names and I'm thinking "now that's a line-up I would pay to go see..." and that tells me GMTM is doing his job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 (edited) Murray hasn't been talking about him as a powerplay dman, he's been talking about him as a #1 PK dman. I know he hasn't. But he has expressed his desire to acquire a #1 QB type D-man. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I didn't even bother with WGR after the trade. In one hour they must have had 50 minutes worth of commercials. Between the ads and PHam calling fans who prefer physical defensemen "knuckledraggers", I shut it off and called it a day. Edited June 26, 2016 by JJFIVEOH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasmus_ Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 (edited) Coller believes in the possession stats. But, honestly, he's been up, and down and up and down. I just haven't gotten enough satisfaction out of him. While he hasn't played enough due to injuries, or inconsistency I believe he's a solid citizen on the back end. I liked our side more, but I can understand it for Florida. Asplund was one of my higher rated guys and I fell in love with his game. Edited June 26, 2016 by TheCerebral1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Coller believes in the possession stats. But, honestly, he's been up, and down and up and down. I just haven't gotten enough satisfaction out of him. While he hasn't played enough due to injuries, or inconsistency I believe he's a solid citizen on the back end. I liked our side more, but I can understand it for Florida. Asplund was one of my higher rated guys and I fell in love with his game. The trade is really about Asplund, anyway, I think. Wouldn't surprise me at all if Kulikov is allowed to leave via free agency next offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 The trade is really about Asplund, anyway, I think. Wouldn't surprise me at all if Kulikov is allowed to leave via free agency next offseason. Or traded at the deadline? ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasmus_ Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 The trade is really about Asplund, anyway, I think. Wouldn't surprise me at all if Kulikov is allowed to leave via free agency next offseason. Correcto. I could see that. He's suitable for now, its a flyer situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Found this interesting. Comparing Kulikov to Fowler http://public.tableau.com/shared/9FZWDCG49?:display_count=yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kas23 Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 I am crushed that Murray has buried the "hates Russian" meme. It doesn't. It just alters it. Kulikov has shown that he's a dedicated player who know how to excel in the NHL and not run off to the KHL. Drafting Russian players is a whole different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted June 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Found this interesting. Comparing Kulikov to Fowler http://public.tableau.com/shared/9FZWDCG49?:display_count=yes Neither player is particularly inspiring when it comes to advanced/possession stats and both were heavily pursued by GMTM. It's an example that just because you're an analytics guy (as GMTM is considered to be) it doesn't mean that's the only way to evaluate players. Kevin Shattenkirk, on the other hand, is a great dman by every metric out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Neither player is particularly inspiring when it comes to advanced/possession stats and both were heavily pursued by GMTM. It's an example that just because you're an analytics guy (as GMTM is considered to be) it doesn't mean that's the only way to evaluate players. Kevin Shattenkirk, on the other hand, is a great dman by every metric out there. Of course, when you're one of the worst possession teams in hockey, I don't think wanting your GM to pay attention to them for at least one of your defensemen is asking a whole lot. Ultimately, I think the picture being painted so far is Murray likes his defensemen to be aggressive. I don't think they have to be big and mean, but he wants his Dmen going for big plays whether it's with or without the puck, even if it ends up backfiring a lot of the time. Certainly wasn't Pysyk's game, but it explains why he'd be high on players like Bogosian, McCabe, and Kulikov. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Pysyk didnt log many minutes against top lines so his possession numbers look great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 (edited) Neither player is particularly inspiring when it comes to advanced/possession stats and both were heavily pursued by GMTM. It's an example that just because you're an analytics guy (as GMTM is considered to be) it doesn't mean that's the only way to evaluate players. Kevin Shattenkirk, on the other hand, is a great dman by every metric out there. More importantly GMTM did not over pay to get Fowler. Some combo of Ennis, Girgs and their 2017 1st Round Pick were being discussed. If the Sabres miss out on Stamkos, I could see GMTM making a play for Shattenkirk if he agrees to an extension. Edited June 26, 2016 by BRAWNDO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Pysyk didnt log many minutes against top lines so his possession numbers look great. No, he didn't, and that matters. Maybe he could have made the jump to 2nd pair, maybe not. But ultimately you want players who can put up good possession numbers in their role, and Pysyk was the only one on the team that did so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabel79 Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 THere has to be another defenseman coming. Stamkos or no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresBillsFan Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 The trade is really about Asplund, anyway, I think. Wouldn't surprise me at all if Kulikov is allowed to leave via free agency next offseason. After looking at this trade more it sounds like they really wanted Asplund and to do this deal to move up require Pysyk and the two picks. I still think Psysk is a better steady d-man than Kulikov is. Little shocked by the deal. But if you really wanted a player you sometimes have to overpay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 I just do not get the McCabe love. Do not. Even if we want to dismiss the inconsistency as a product of youth, he doesn't have a single standout skill--he's just okay at a bunch of stuff. I think he's shown flashes of being good to very good at pretty much every desirable skill a defenseman should have, and he did so in his first full season. It should also be noted that an experienced NHL coaching staff clearly preferred him to Pysyk. Except for driving even strength puck possession ;) The eye test unmistakeably confirms that Pysyk never drove anything while on the ice. Pysyk didnt log many minutes against top lines so his possession numbers look great. This. Also, the coaches also didn't trust him to kill penalties, and he had zero power play skill. More importantly GMTM did not over pay to get Fowler. Yes indeed. I'm much happier with where the Sabres are today after the trade they made than I would've been if they had traded #8 for Fowler. No, he didn't, and that matters. Maybe he could have made the jump to 2nd pair, maybe not. But ultimately you want players who can put up good possession numbers in their role, and Pysyk was the only one on the team that did so. I don't think this is the ultimate goal. I also think it was more important to upgrade the role of Risto's partner than it was to maintain a good possession number at the #6-#7 defenseman slot. THere has to be another defenseman coming. Stamkos or no. This is an interesting question. I wouldn't be surprised either way. They still have Nelson and Franson at #6-#7. Separately: as Hoss noted upthread, GMTM spoke very highly of Kulikov -- high enough that I expect GMTM to try to sign him to an extension. Also worth noting that Kulikov played over 25 min per game for Florida in the playoffs this year after being 3rd on the team in ice time in the regular season (he was paired with Ekblad for much of the season too). I think this is a significant upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted June 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 It hasn't been said yet but Dmitry Kulikov is a pretty kickass name Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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