#freejame Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 The gauge I've been using is the league standings rather than last year's team. In that regard, we're still pretty far down the ladder; we've seen some improvement, but not as much as I'd hoped -While I never considered playoffs in 2016 - I thought it ridiculous that anyone was.... I hoped we'd hit 80-82 points, and a ~20th in the standings. We've had some real bright spots with Eichel and Reinhart - but we're going to need a heckuva lot MORE talent to put together a serious playoff ready team. They're a good nucleus to build around.... but a lot more building must be done. We should look at every single player in our lineup thusly; is this player realistically capable of supporting our team in defeating Chicago, Washington, Dallas, St. Louis, and the other top ten teams in a playoff game in 2018? IF not, then why keep them? If the Sabres got to 80 points and finished last would you be upset? I just really don't understand using position in the standing as a measure for this years team. Overall output compared to where we were makes more sense, to me at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 (edited) If the Sabres got to 80 points and finished last would you be upset? I just really don't understand using position in the standing as a measure for this years team. Overall output compared to where we were makes more sense, to me at least. ] perfectly said! +1 as I've all season, give me 75 points and 5th last and I think its a win-win for the Sabres Edited March 10, 2016 by Crusader1969 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 http://www.thestar.com/sports/breakaway_blog/2016/03/leafs-tank-job-not-nearly-as-embarrassing-as-buffalo-s-last-year.html I know Im not embarrased by what the Sabres did, I actually think it was genius. Just imagine if Buffalo beat the Coyotes in regulation at home last year towards the end of the season (ARI won in OT). Arizona would've finished with 54 points, Buffalo with 55. Arizona gets Eichel. Consider there are infinite parallel universes. I'm glad we don't live in that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Good night last night for moving down in the standings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsixspd Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 (edited) ] perfectly said! +1 as I've all season, give me 75 points and 5th last and I think its a win-win for the Sabres So what are we looking at next year? 80 points and 21st in the standings? Gonna take quite a few years to get to be a contender in the playoffs at that pace. GMTM said this was going to be a fast turn around - I think we should hold him to it in 2016-17. We should be at least in the running for a WC spot then. Edited March 10, 2016 by Jsixspd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 ] perfectly said! +1 as I've all season, give me 75 points and 5th last and I think its a win-win for the Sabres IMO it's more important for this group of young Sabres to start believing and learning how to win games, than it is to acquire another top 3 pick. IMO, there's not enough difference between picks 2-7 to cheer for this group to lose games at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 IMO it's more important for this group of young Sabres to start believing and learning how to win games, than it is to acquire another top 3 pick. IMO, there's not enough difference between picks 2-7 to cheer for this group to lose games at this point. There's a massive difference between pick 2 and 7. You are saying there is not much difference between Laine and Nylander/Chychurn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 There's a massive difference between pick 2 and 7. You are saying there is not much difference between Laine and Nylander/Chychurn? Yes, I think both Laine and Puljujarvi are overrated (and Matthews for that matter). Laine is just too slow, yes he has a fantastic shot, but he has zero foot speed.... won't translate well to today's NHL. I really like Chychrun, a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 I'm also liking this draft less and less, the more I see and read. Like Auston but refuse to put him at Eichel level yet, and really hope we find a good trade that sends out our pick for some immediate help coming back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Any chance your sudden disliking of the class coincides with the team showing signs of rising in the standings? The brain works in mysterious ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 Any chance your sudden disliking of the class coincides with the team showing signs of rising in the standings? The brain works in mysterious ways. No, I think I'm just actively trying to avoid shiny-new-toy syndrome. Drooling over the top 5 was something I did to cope while we were tanking, and now I'm trying to stop that, haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted March 10, 2016 Report Share Posted March 10, 2016 No, I think I'm just actively trying to avoid shiny-new-toy syndrome. Drooling over the top 5 was something I did to cope while we were tanking, and now I'm trying to stop that, haha. I do it when we're good, too. But I hear that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 So what are we looking at next year? 80 points and 21st in the standings? Gonna take quite a few years to get to be a contender in the playoffs at that pace. GMTM said this was going to be a fast turn around - I think we should hold him to it in 2016-17. We should be at least in the running for a WC spot then. No he said he doesn't believe in 5 year rebuilds. That doesn't mean it won't take that long. Fqcts are facts. We need more talented players on the wing and on d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 Edmonton wins, we lose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsixspd Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 (edited) No he said he doesn't believe in 5 year rebuilds. That doesn't mean it won't take that long. Fqcts are facts. We need more talented players on the wing and on d Chicago Blackhawks went from a NHL Cellar team, to winning the Stanley Cup, in 3 seasons, or 4 seasons, depending on where you start measuring 2006-07 - they were 71 points and 3rd worst team in the NHL - I consider the rebuild started AFTER the end of this season; because that's when they had an ownership change, and management change; 2007-08 - in the offseason, ownership changes, they start the rebuild - 88 points - no playoffs, but 19th place in the league. They still hadn't even changed their coach yet - they still had Savard as coach - the coach of previous managment. 2008-09 - they hire their franchise coach, Joe Quenneville, 4 games into the regular season. Now things really take off. 104 points, 6th place in the league and they make it all the way to the conference FINALS. 2009-10; 112 points - 3rd best regular season record in the NHL, AND Stanley Cup Champions! That's 3 years by my count. Some argue that it's 4 years; that the rebuild started after the 05-06 season, but I don't think so. Nothing had changed management wise in the team between the 05-06 season, and 06-07 seasons. But regardless, this was a FAST rebuild. Hell, they were at EIGHTY EIGHT points and 19th place in the NHL and they still had Savard, who wasn't retained the next year The Sabres already HAVE their FRANCHISE COACH this season! The Sabres coach of choice; Dan Bylsma. The coach whom GMTM believes will carry us to the Stanley Cup finals. The Hawks didn't get their Franchise Coach until 2008-09, and the Hawks made 104 points that first season with Quenneville at the helm! I think I'm going easy on the Sabres by not comparing the 15-16 Sabres to the 08-09 Hawks; but even lining up this season's Sabres to the 07-08 Hawks, helmed by the soon to be fired Savard, we're falling behind; they were 88 points and 19th place - we'll be lucky to hit 76 and 25th place. GMTM needs to keep the Sabres train on schedule, and get some scoring power on the ice. His rebuild needs to show a lot of results next year! If we only crawl up to an ~80-82 pt level in 2016-17, I'm going to start losing real faith in the direction of the GMTM rebuild. Edited March 11, 2016 by Jsixspd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 I think if you are comparing the Hawks the comparisons need to start with the arrival of Kane/Toews and Eichel/Reinhart. The coach, while important, is not the key piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsixspd Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 I think if you are comparing the Hawks the comparisons need to start with the arrival of Kane/Toews and Eichel/Reinhart. The coach, while important, is not the key piece. That would have been 2007-08 when Kane and Toews had their rookie season. Chicago did have a few good players on the roster or in the minors even in their awful 05 and 06 seasons - Seabrook, Keith, Byfuglien, Bickell, Sharp that would prove to be important in their upcoming Cup run in 09-10 . Heck, they even had Corey Crawford as early as 2003 Is there anyone on this roster, other than Eichel/Reinhart, who we see as capable of supporting a real future push for the Stanley Cup? Foligno? Moulson? Gionta? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 Seabrook and Keith, that's the distinct difference here. Between Chicago, and every other rebuild Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 Is there anyone on this roster, other than Eichel/Reinhart, who we see as capable of supporting a real future push for the Stanley Cup? Foligno? Moulson? Gionta? ?? O'reilly comes to mind. Kane does to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsixspd Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 (edited) Seabrook and Keith, that's the distinct difference here. Between Chicago, and every other rebuild Yup. Look at their stats in 2005-06 and 06-07; they were pretty decent even on a squalid team. Who have we got, on the roster today, that we can build with in 2017? Reinhart, Eichel, ROR I would say. Kane.... maybe. Anyone else? Even 2 years before the ownership change and the real rebuild began, Chicago had more latent talent on the roster going into the rebuild than do the Sabres today, at least as I see it. ?? O'reilly comes to mind. Kane does to Yup, I think definitely ROR - Kane - maybe.... BTW, I just crunched some numbers; projecting out for the remainder of the season, point estimates are as follows based on average points per game season to date; Buffalo -74 Calgary 74 Winnipeg 72 Edmonton 71 Toronto 68 So it looks like 25th or 26th place finish and 74 points. Edited March 11, 2016 by Jsixspd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 How come no one ever cites the numerous tanks that failed? Hell, pick any modern-era expansion team and tell me how long it took them to win a Cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 Are we really re-litigating the risks/probabilities associated with the tank? Didn't we get enough of that over the last two years? I think I'm gonna go talk about guns in the politics thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 Are we really re-litigating the risks/probabilities associated with the tank? Didn't we get enough of that over the last two years? I think I'm gonna go talk about guns in the politics thread. You'll shoot yer eye out, kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 How come no one ever cites the numerous tanks that failed? Hell, pick any modern-era expansion team and tell me how long it took them to win a Cup. NYI ... 5 years TBL ... 9 years That's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Buffalo Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 Carolina 32 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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