Tank 3.0

[LTS]

So we're tanking again?  Is that it?   

 

Oh stop it.  Seriously.  This nothing like a tank.  It doesn't fit into that definition, not even the one found on urban dictionary.

 

The team is improved.  The team still lacks the overall depth to be better than they are now, especially with injuries to top 6 forwards like Ennis.  

 

Losing is not tanking.  It's a a fair evaluation of the talent on this team.  This team is ranked near the top 10 in PK and PP.  No, really, they are.  

 

I can't stand the use of the word tank.  It's nothing like it. It's not remotely close.  It has to stop.

 

 

I gotta avoid this thread from now on.  It's a like a freakin' social club for hockey fan emos.

[Thorny]

Oh stop it.  Seriously.  This nothing like a tank.  It doesn't fit into that definition, not even the one found on urban dictionary.

 

The team is improved.  The team still lacks the overall depth to be better than they are now, especially with injuries to top 6 forwards like Ennis.  

 

Losing is not tanking.  It's a a fair evaluation of the talent on this team.  This team is ranked near the top 10 in PK and PP.  No, really, they are.  

 

I can't stand the use of the word tank.  It's nothing like it. It's not remotely close.  It has to stop.

 

 

I gotta avoid this thread from now on.  It's a like a freakin' social club for hockey fan emos.

 

It's quite clear that this is not a tank. Just look at the trade deadline. Last year, Murray went out of his way to deal anyone that he could, the point of most of the deals being to unload our guys. This year, just one deal, and it made sense, it was a rebuilding move. He could have sold off all the UFAs for nothing if we wanted to, but just made the one deal.  Just because he may or may not be at this point hoping for a high pick doesn't change anything, the team was constructed this season for the purpose of competing and developing, and winning if we got enough of the first two.

 

Just not at the expense of the second thing.

[Claude_Verret]

Oh stop it. Seriously. This nothing like a tank. It doesn't fit into that definition, not even the one found on urban dictionary.

 

The team is improved. The team still lacks the overall depth to be better than they are now, especially with injuries to top 6 forwards like Ennis.

 

Losing is not tanking. It's a a fair evaluation of the talent on this team. This team is ranked near the top 10 in PK and PP. No, really, they are.

 

I can't stand the use of the word tank. It's nothing like it. It's not remotely close. It has to stop.

 

 

I gotta avoid this thread from now on. It's a like a freakin' social club for hockey fan emos.

Thank you. After the last two seasons, both quintessential tanks, you'd think folks would know how to recognize one.

[Derrico]

 

WGR 550 ‏@WGR550  9m9 minutes ago

MURRAY: "There's lots of good stuff happening. We're better, we're closer to where we want to be, but we're not there yet."

 

WGR 550 ‏@WGR550  10m10 minutes ago

MURRAY: "At some point the pick is not enough or is too far out."

 

 

 

What does that even mean?

I listened to the interview on the way home.

 

It was in regards to the trade deadline.  He was asked about how he viewed this years deadline.  He went on to say he had a deal he could have made for another player but at some point the pick is too low and too far out to be worth trading that player.  He said he had a deal in place but decided not to do it and then that player/pick was traded to another team for similar compensation.  The quote was not in reference to our first round selection or tanking/not tanking in anyway.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Derrico

[That Aud Smell]

It was in regards to the trade deadline.  He was asked about how he viewed this years deadline.  He went on to say he had a deal he could have made for another player but at some point the pick is too low and too far out to be worth trading that player.  He said he had a deal in place but decided not to do it and then that player/pick was traded to another team for similar compensation.  The quote was not in reference to our first round selection or tanking/not tanking in anyway.

 

Many thanks - that makes more sense.

[LGR4GM]

Many thanks - that makes more sense.

Here is WGR's interview from yesterday with Murray

http://media.wgr550.com/a/113868012/3-3-tim-murray-with-schopp-and-the-bulldog-feat-sal-capaccio.htm?pageid=28473

[PASabreFan]

There's Tanking and then there's tanking behavior. Little t. Mini toy tanks. Towit:

 

One of Bylsma’s biggest failings this year has been how his constant line shuffling has impacted Eichel. Other teams have gotten regular linemates for their rookie stars.

 

According to Leftwinglock.com, Chicago’s Artemi Panarin has played 74.5 percent of the time with Patrick Kane and Artem Anisimov. That’s the Blackhawks, you say. Fair enough.

 

Out in Edmonton, McDavid entered Thursday having played 74.25 percent of the time with either Benoit Pouliot and Jordan Eberle or Pouliot and Nail Yakupov. In Detroit, Dylan Larkin has spent 44.3 percent of his shifts with Henrik Zetterberg and Justin Abdelkader.

 

Then there’s Eichel. He hasn’t played more than 8.5 percent of the time with any one combination, that being Evander Kane and Sam Reinhart. His biggest individual is Zemgus Girgensons, around 16 percent.

 

Bylsma’s concept of line duos that he brought from Pittsburgh is goofy. A line is three players with other teams, not two.

http://sabres.buffalonews.com/2016/03/04/bylsmas-tactics-as-sabres-coach-deserve-scrutiny/

 

This is not a sign that your coach is really trying to win.

Edited March 4, 2016 by PASabreFan

[LTS]

There's Tanking and then there's tanking behavior. Little t. Mini toy tanks. Towit:

 

http://sabres.buffalonews.com/2016/03/04/bylsmas-tactics-as-sabres-coach-deserve-scrutiny/

 

This is not a sign that your coach is really trying to win.

 

That's not much of an analysis.  Panarin has played with Kane and Anisimov 74.5% of the time.  How many games have Anisimov and Kane missed this year?  GP: Kane (66), Panarin (64), Anisimov (65). Add to that Toews (65), Shaw (66), Teravainen (62), Hossa (54) - and you can see a pattern develop.  The top forwards have not been shuffled around for two reasons.. one.. they win, and two.. no one is injured much.

 

Let's look at Edmonton.. using McDavid is ridiculous.. HE was injured most of the year and Harrington still uses 4 other forwards to make his point?

 

Larkin's % - Let;s look at top forwards GP: Zetterberg (64), Larkin (62), Tatar (63), Nyquist (64), Abdelkader (64), Sheahan (63), Glendening (63), Richards (50), Dasyuk (49).  So, a few high-end forward injuries but Larkin is only at 44%

 

The Sabres top forwards?  ROR (59), Eichel (65), Reinhart (62), Kane (54), Ennis (23), Gionta (62), Foligno (58), McGinn (63), Moulson (64).  The Sabres have had more injuries.

 

Lastly, and perhaps more importantly, the number of new players in the lineup for these teams also has some impact.  The Sabres injected 5 new forwards into their top 9.  The Red Wings, Oilers, and Blackhawks did not.

 

The combinations will settle themselves out.  Perhaps the shuffling will continue to be a problem, but there has to be better evidence given than what Harrington used.

[That Aud Smell]

There's Tanking and then there's tanking behavior. Little t. Mini toy tanks. Towit:

 

http://sabres.buffalonews.com/2016/03/04/bylsmas-tactics-as-sabres-coach-deserve-scrutiny/

 

This is not a sign that your coach is really trying to win.

 

I can't, won't read anything Harrington writes. Doctor's orders.

 

That said, it's poppycock to suggest that Bylsma's concept of forward pairings, and his shuffling of pairings with Eichel are quiet attempts on his part to tiny tank.

 

It may well be a bad idea, but Bylsma's doing his best to win games. Same went for Ted Nolan, of course.

[dudacek]

There's Tanking and then there's tanking behavior. Little t. Mini toy tanks. Towit:

 

http://sabres.buffalonews.com/2016/03/04/bylsmas-tactics-as-sabres-coach-deserve-scrutiny/

 

This is not a sign that your coach is really trying to win.

 

Is it really easier to believe that our coach is deliberately trying to sabotage our team's chances than it is that he puts more emphasis on situations and tactics than he does chemistry?

[PASabreFan]

I can't, won't read anything Harrington writes. Doctor's orders.

 

That said, it's poppycock to suggest that Bylsma's concept of forward pairings, and his shuffling of pairings with Eichel are quiet attempts on his part to tiny tank.

 

It may well be a bad idea, but Bylsma's doing his best to win games. Same went for Ted Nolan, of course.

Nah. I think Disco and Trader had a little talk before this season to talk about what this was going to be. It has looked like an elongated preseason.

Is it really easier to believe that our coach is deliberately trying to sabotage our team's chances than it is that he puts more emphasis on situations and tactics than he does chemistry?

Easy there. Don't make SDS pick up the bat phone. Sabotage is a pretty strong word, as if DB is working against whatever the plan is. I just happen to believe the plan all along was not to worry much about winning this season.

[Crusader1969]

I've said this a billion times and I will again: this team is MUCH better. You can tell by watching the games or looking at the standings. The team is on pace for 20 more points than last season. They need 15 goals in 18 games to surpass last year's goal total and would need to give up 125 goals in that span to catch up in goals against.

 

I know there's so many more ways to show the improvement (or lack thereof), but this team has improved. A lot.

 

improved on the back of players all under the age of 24. Im with you, if people cant see the improvement then Im really not sure what the heck they have been watching.

 

Actually, im sure they are not watching - they are just looking at the standings.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Crusader1969

[Crusader1969]

Its not looking as good for a top 7 pick - Arizona has lost 7 in a row, Calgary is brutal as we saw last night, I went to sleep with Vancouver having a 2-0 lead and ended up losing 3-2, Winnipeg gives up a 2-1 lead with 20 seconds to go and the Isles score in ot off of Ehlers face, 

 

Only hope is Edmonton and Columbus to continue to put up points. Hoping for a 3 points game between Oilers and Blue Jackets tonight.

 

That being said I can see the Sabres losing to Minnesota tomorrow and I think the Leafs / Sabres game will be close and could go either way.

 

-+

[That Aud Smell]

Nah. I think Disco and Trader had a little talk before this season to talk about what this was going to be. It has looked like an elongated preseason.

 

Mmm. K.

I just happen to believe the plan all along was not to worry much about winning this season.

 

Well, on that, there may be some room for agreement.

[LGR4GM]

Since I'm good drafting sergachev I am not concerned with where we draft that much. 1st or 8th doesn't matter as long as we see progress from the young guns.

[Crusader1969]

you get to 9th or 10th and you may not be drafting Sergi either

[LTS]

Nah. I think Disco and Trader had a little talk before this season to talk about what this was going to be. It has looked like an elongated preseason.

Easy there. Don't make SDS pick up the bat phone. Sabotage is a pretty strong word, as if DB is working against whatever the plan is. I just happen to believe the plan all along was not to worry much about winning this season.

 

I agree with this.  I have thought all along the idea was to make a stride towards improvement.  it's a methodical process.

 

2014-15 - Move out the last of the pieces and lose. Your coach is gone and you know it. You are going for the top pick to get some talent in the door.

2015-16 - Begin the build

• Hire your coach of the future - implement his system
• Bring in the key pieces you want moving out the assets you don't want (ROR, Lehner, Legwand, McGinn)
• Begin the talent evaluation process against the coach you believe you will be keeping
• Talent evaluation - juggle lines, places players in new situations, see who floats, who sinks, who can be moved on from and who has to stay for the final build
• Make your final moves - McGinn and Weber off to contenders - this makes current players happy to see guys who they respect or are friends with get a shot
• If you win you win, if you lose you lose.  The overall goal is to see improvement this year while learning who has what it takes in a real hockey system.

2016-17 - Begin the winning phase

• Move as many players as you can who you want to move on from
• Drafting high again
• The team should improve further and contend for a wild card spot or better.

I believe this has been exactly how it's played out the whole time.  It explains what appear to be maddening roster moves, lineup combinations, etc. I don't think they are concerned with perfecting the winning so much as analyzing their assets for a better fit in 2016.

 

Murray's message has been fairly consistent this entire time that said basically.. if we win that's great, if not we're going to have a shot at the top 3 picks.

[dudacek]

I just happen to believe the plan all along was not to worry much about winning this season.

I agree and Murray has baldly stated that is the case.

LTS does a good job of laying things out.

[WildCard]

Here is WGR's interview from yesterday with Murray

http://media.wgr550.com/a/113868012/3-3-tim-murray-with-schopp-and-the-bulldog-feat-sal-capaccio.htm?pageid=28473

Was just about to go hunting for this, thanks

"2nd in the league in 1 goal losses, maybe 1st if you add the empty netters" 

[North Buffalo]

Was just about to go hunting for this, thanks

"2nd in the league in 1 goal losses, maybe 1st if you add the empty netters" 

And if I remember correctly, the year the last year of Drury and Briere when the Sabres led the league in points, they also led the league in 1 goal wins and wins in overtime....   Goes to show.... and even more telling is who Blysma puts out the shootouts.

[LTS]

I firmly believe you can tell the direction of the team by its special teams.  The Sabres PK and PP have been ranked much higher this year.  This should be because they condense their talent and can be effective.  In 5v5 play they have to spread it out a bit more.  The good news is as they fill in those final pieces the talent is less spread out.  Players are in their effective role and the corner is turned. 

 

It's defense right now and I would bet anything that gets taken care of in the off season.

[French Collection]

I recall Babcock talking about team stats a few years ago. One stat he valued was goal differential. We're sitting at -21 after 65 games and trending towards zero. We are 24th in the league and a few more wins like last game can get us to the mid teens. Washington 30 plus ahead of next best with +61.

[dudacek]

23rd now in the overall standings.

About the same in goal differential

Middle of the pack in goals against.

Same for our road record

Top half of the league in PK and PP

We are stil bottom five in goals for, but just 10 more goals would move us up to 18th.

 

We are horrible at home still, but in pretty much every other category we've gone from "historically bad" (whatever that means) to mediocre.

We could conceivably still drop to 29, but there is no way the Leafs are going to catch us.

Given our schedule and the way we are trending a 4-8 seed in the lottery looks likely.

There will be no carrion league title this year boys and girls.

The tank is in the garage.

Edited March 8, 2016 by dudacek

[Crusader1969]

http://www.thestar.com/sports/breakaway_blog/2016/03/leafs-tank-job-not-nearly-as-embarrassing-as-buffalo-s-last-year.html

 

I know Im not embarrased by what the Sabres did, I actually think it was genius.

[Jsixspd]

The beginning of this conversation came when somebody implied this team hasn't improved. If we're talking about improvement how do we do it if we can't use last year? What is the improvement target?

The gauge I've been using is the league standings rather than last year's team.  

 

 

In that regard, we're still pretty far down the ladder; we've seen some improvement, but not as much as I'd hoped -While I never considered playoffs in 2016 - I thought it ridiculous that anyone was.... I hoped we'd hit 80-82 points, and a ~20th in the standings.     We've had some real bright spots with Eichel and Reinhart -  but we're going to need a heckuva lot MORE talent to put together a serious playoff ready team.  They're a good nucleus to build around.... but a lot more building must be done.   

 

 

We should look at every single player in our lineup thusly;  is this player realistically capable of supporting our team in defeating Chicago,  Washington, Dallas, St. Louis, and the other top ten teams in a playoff game in 2018?   IF not, then why keep them?