26CornerBlitz Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 I would have freaked out if Vanek ended up on the leafs..... The Aud Club would have exploded!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 This deal was really a surprise, didn't even know the Islanders were looking at Vanek. For those that think picks are gold, this deal was a steal for the Sabres. Anyway you look at it, it was confusing on the Islanders part because they gave up Moulson in the deal too. On the ice while looking at the stats, it does not appear they upgraded except if you believe that Moulson is at his peak playing with a talent like Tavares while vanek has not reached his potential because he doesn't have an elite talent to play with in Buffalo. It looks confusing also because the islanders biggest concerns according to the "experts" was on defence and in net, which this does not address (unless something else is being worked on that will eventual send Miller to them in a deal that will look more lopsided in the other direction) its hard to get excited watching Moulson out there because you know that he is purely a rental and won't be here long (If Vanek didn't fit into their re-building plans, how can a guy who is the same age fit in?), and this deal continues to signal to the league that the Sabres are for sale and are going through the motions this season in hopes of getting the #1 pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 @TSNBobMcKenzie BUF retained approx $1.4M, give or take a few thousand $, or roughly 20 per cent of Thomas Vanek's remaining salary, as part of NYI trade. @DarrenDreger As per @TSNBobMcKenzie Buf retains roughly $1.4 mil of Vanek's salary. Sabres offered Vanek to Toronto along with willingness to eat salary. @DarrenDreger Vanek offer to Leafs was made 3-4 days ago, but, told there was no deal to be made. So now Buffalo can only retain salary in one more trade this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sicknfla Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Offering him to Toronto is just another indication of how certain it is he ends up in Minny. So now Buffalo can only retain salary in one more trade this year. With that most likely being Miller's plan on a full year of Stafford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Vanek must have asked to be traded to Toronto. I bet Darcy asked a high price to keep that trade from happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FolignosJock Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Vanek must have asked to be traded to Toronto. I bet Darcy asked a high price to keep that trade from happening. Makes sense so his family wouldnt have to be uprooted for an extra few months Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 This deal was really a surprise, didn't even know the Islanders were looking at Vanek. For those that think picks are gold, this deal was a steal for the Sabres. Anyway you look at it, it was confusing on the Islanders part because they gave up Moulson in the deal too. On the ice while looking at the stats, it does not appear they upgraded except if you believe that Moulson is at his peak playing with a talent like Tavares while vanek has not reached his potential because he doesn't have an elite talent to play with in Buffalo. It looks confusing also because the islanders biggest concerns according to the "experts" was on defence and in net, which this does not address (unless something else is being worked on that will eventual send Miller to them in a deal that will look more lopsided in the other direction) its hard to get excited watching Moulson out there because you know that he is purely a rental and won't be here long (If Vanek didn't fit into their re-building plans, how can a guy who is the same age fit in?), and this deal continues to signal to the league that the Sabres are for sale and are going through the motions this season in hopes of getting the #1 pick. I'm not sure how you come to this conclusion. Vanek is gone because he didn't want to stay through the rebuild, but that doesn't mean the Sabres didn't want him--all indications are the Sabres DID want him. Moulson may well be a rental who is flipped at the deadline, but it's not because the team doesn't think a 29 year old player can fit in. Offering him to Toronto is just another indication of how certain it is he ends up in Minny. How does offering him to Toronto guarantee he signs in Minnesota? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 How does offering him to Toronto guarantee he signs in Minnesota? I don't think you can trade him in the division if there's even a slight chance he signs with Toronto. Trading within the conference is bad enough but it's rare you see a divisional trade. I know there are some exceptions ie Kessel for T.O.'s picks etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) I don't think you can trade him in the division if there's even a slight chance he signs with Toronto. Trading within the conference is bad enough but it's rare you see a divisional trade. I know there are some exceptions ie Kessel for T.O.'s picks etc. Toronto is in a pretty terrible cap situation, so them not taking on Vanek could be a result of that just as easily as Vanek being unwilling to sign there. Edit: Put another way, how many teams want to invest $16MM in two wingers? Edited October 29, 2013 by TrueBluePhD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Not sure the leafs bit is important. I would hope Darcy offered him everyone before he pulled the trigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 I'm not sure how you come to this conclusion. Vanek is gone because he didn't want to stay through the rebuild, but that doesn't mean the Sabres didn't want him--all indications are the Sabres DID want him. Moulson may well be a rental who is flipped at the deadline, but it's not because the team doesn't think a 29 year old player can fit in. How does offering him to Toronto guarantee he signs in Minnesota? If Vanek was truly part of their rebuilding plans, they wouldn't have traded him so early, the writing is on the wall that they want to go with a full youth movement with picks and prospects. There may have been rumors that they offered him a huge deal, but I don't think those were confirmed by the team? As for the Toronto part, I believe Sick believes that Darcy wouldn't be dumb enough to contact a division rival and offer them one of their best players in a deal without knowing that he would only be a rental to them because he has already made up his mind that he is off to the Wild next season Toronto is in a pretty terrible cap situation, so them not taking on Vanek could be a result of that just as easily as Vanek being unwilling to sign there. Edit: Put another way, how many teams want to invest $16MM in two wingers? I don't see why the Leafs would do the deal, I think they have more of a need for defence right now and not a scoring forward. I'm sure they would have gladly taken Vanek if the Sabres kept a chunk of salary, and took back some bad contracts for them to get them under the cap, but I don't see why they would given Buffalo anything decent for him when he isn't a need for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sicknfla Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 As for the Toronto part, I believe Sick believes that Darcy wouldn't be dumb enough to contact a division rival and offer them one of their best players in a deal without knowing that he would only be a rental to them because he has already made up his mind that he is off to the Wild next season Exactly. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 If Vanek was truly part of their rebuilding plans, they wouldn't have traded him so early, the writing is on the wall that they want to go with a full youth movement with picks and prospects. There may have been rumors that they offered him a huge deal, but I don't think those were confirmed by the team? As for the Toronto part, I believe Sick believes that Darcy wouldn't be dumb enough to contact a division rival and offer them one of their best players in a deal without knowing that he would only be a rental to them because he has already made up his mind that he is off to the Wild next season The team will never confirm what they did or did not offer him, so all we really have to go on is what has been reported and guess-work. I just think the more likely explanation of the trade now is they didn't think they could sign him and they got a deal they liked, rather than him simply not being in the plans. We'll have to agree to disagree on that. With respect to the Toronto point, maybe that's what he's thinking--and I think that's a severe leap in logic. Other possible (and just as likely, if not more so) explanations for offering him to Toronto: Darcy wanted a specific player in the Toronto organization Darcy thinks Toronto's draft picks would ultimately be more valuable than the Isles' Darcy was trying to play teams against one another to drive up the price Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sicknfla Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 The team will never confirm what they did or did not offer him, so all we really have to go on is what has been reported and guess-work. I just think p.O.the more likely explanation of the trade now is they didn't think they could sign him and they got a deal they liked, rather than him simply not being in the plans. We'll have to agree to disagree on that. With respect to the Toronto point, maybe that's what he's thinking--and I think that's a severe leap in logic. Other possible (and just as likely, if not more so) explanations for offering him to Toronto: Darcy wanted a specific player in the Toronto organization Darcy thinks Toronto's draft picks would ultimately be more valuable than the Isles' Darcy was trying to play teams against one another to drive up the price I think in the position we were in with him you had to pretty much put him out there for whoever offered the best return. If it was Toronto so be it. I still believe DR is very confident that he ends up in Minny. If he doesn't it will be because somebody grossly overpays. If that happens to be Toronto then so be it. It's not like Toronto can't try signing him in the summer if they want him that bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Toronto is in a pretty terrible cap situation, so them not taking on Vanek could be a result of that just as easily as Vanek being unwilling to sign there. Edit: Put another way, how many teams want to invest $16MM in two wingers? Well, allegedly Minnesota does (but I'm not convinced). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 How would y'all feel about a Vanek for Lupul centerpiece? I'm not advocating it, and maybe some other parts are involved.....just stumbled upon it as a possibility. He's locked up at $5 million as well, so probably a $3 million breather going forward. That would make it pretty funny. He has a little spunk to him though. Maybe the Leafs are going for it this year and you get Lupul and some picks for Vanek and something-something. I guess he does have a limited NTC. Just had a fresh stumble on him as a possibility. Could be nothing to it, but interesting hit on the radar. I'm sure if they wanted Vanek, they can find a way to chop another $2 million off their roster. Ooooo.....I got me a live wire! "Testing...Testing....1..2..3....Ted...can you hear me....can you hear me Ted?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 It is important to remember that there are cumulative limits to how much money you can retain in trades and also how many times you can do it (can only retain money from 3 traded contracts at the same time). This is going to get in the way sooner or later if we keep saying "trade this guy and retain XX% of his salary". We've already got Pominville on the books, so we can only take on money from two more players. Good point, but my thought was only that they needed to do it for Miller so they were good. Now we know they did it with Vanek, but Moulson moves easier than Vanek's salary if they decide to move him. Most likely use of that clause is with Miller and they have more room to maneuver. All of those contracts come off the books at the end of the season so they could start again but I think they are going to use their buyouts. The question is which two of the three end up gone? (Myers, Leino, Stafford). My guess is Leino and Stafford. If I am recalling correctly the Sabres still have two compliance buyouts as Gerbe was a straight buyout right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Ooooo.....I got me a live wire! "Testing...Testing....1..2..3....Ted...can you hear me....can you hear me Ted?" Maybe you *are* Ted Black? After all, he's the one guy in the brain trust you like, he's the one hope for the future, and so on.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 All of those contracts come off the books at the end of the season so they could start again but I think they are going to use their buyouts. The question is which two of the three end up gone? (Myers, Leino, Stafford). My guess is Leino and Stafford. If I am recalling correctly the Sabres still have two compliance buyouts as Gerbe was a straight buyout right? Yes, they used a mornal buyout on Gerbe. Maybe Stafford. Doubtful on Myers. To my eyes, Leino has looked fairly good at getting and keeping the puck on the boards, and other than being tripped the other night, hasn't been a liability. He's a bit overpaid but not so much that he needs to be gone. Although if he gets hurt again before the end of the season, I think the team should declare him Timmy and buy him out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Maybe you *are* Ted Black? After all, he's the one guy in the brain trust you like, he's the one hope for the future, and so on.... That would be awesome! I'm nobody....just found another loophole from inside the Sabres. They all leave too many breadcrumbs laying around. And again, as to not get anyone in trouble.....nobody told me that information about the Leafs. There is no deliberate leak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Isles have some pick protection: @Real_ESPNLeBrun So it's Isles' option to either have Buffalo pick this year or next if it's top 10. A little insurance for Isles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMatrix31 Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Figured it was too good to be true to be getting it outright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Isles have some pick protection: @Real_ESPNLeBrun So it's Isles' option to either have Buffalo pick this year or next if it's top 10. A little insurance for Isles And the RPM's of the neck and tongue from some, orderly decelerate as they process what this means..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Isles have some pick protection: @Real_ESPNLeBrun So it's Isles' option to either have Buffalo pick this year or next if it's top 10. A little insurance for Isles Imagine if they defer to next year and then have some wacky tank season... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Imagine if they defer to next year and then have some wacky tank season... So we root for the bottom to fall out and they finish last the next two years, right? (Or close to) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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