nfreeman Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 My bad. For some reason I thought they won it when they were the #1 seed two years ago. The 'Nucks edged them out by 2 points. The point remains they went from 1st in the East, to 6th, and now to 13th at this moment (and yes, I know he's injured). Pominville regularly got ripped for not elevating the team, and yet it seems Callahan isn't held to that standard--it's enough that he plays a style people want to see here. Respectfully, I don't think It's just a question of style. The year Callahan was named captain, they went from bubble playoff team to #1 in the EC. They dropped to #6 last year, but I kinda think last year was a strange year league-wide and for the Rangers in particular (and that Slats mighta made too many big moves based on an abbreviated season). I'll also say that Callahan would've responded forcefully in a Lucic-Miller situation, unlike Pommer. And for the record, I wish Pommer were still here, although I didn't like him being captain and I really didn't like his contract. You're right that Callahan is hurt this year -- I forgot about his recent injury. Still, though, it's not a TC-level of injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 1) Darcy is out of his mind. There are 50-100 players in skill level and age that are worth more than Vanek. I've seen some pretty ridiculous statements on here, and this is most likely the worst. Not even close to the right number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro60 Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Happy for Vanek. He did the best he could for 10 years with the Sabres. Not the best on defense in his own end. Good trade but would have liked another body instead of a draft pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trettioåtta Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 I've seen some pretty ridiculous statements on here, and this is most likely the worst. Not even close to the right number. 1 Crosby 2 Stamkos 3 Sedin 4 Ovi 5 Marleau 6 Kessel 7 St Louis 8 Couture 9 Duchene 10 Perry 11 Tavares 12 Thornton 13 Toews 14 Zetterberg 15 Datsyuk 16 Getzlaf 17 Sedin 18 Backstrom 19 Spezza 20 Benn 21 Subban 22 Kopitar 23 Sequin 24 Karlsson 25 Malkin 26 Parise 27 Kane 28 Ryan 29 OEL 30 Pietrangelo 31 Kronwall 32 Suter 33 Weber 34 Keith 35 Shattenkirk 36 Doughty 37 Seabrook 38 Niemi 39 Quick 40 Rask 41 Luongo 42 Rinne 43 Miller 44 Lundqvist 45 Giroux 46 Staal 47 Hall 48 Nash 49 Koivu 50 Kovalchuk (if still around) 51 Eriksson 52 Chara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 I'm really not upset at all about Moulson wearing #26 given Vanek's willingness to always do what's in his best interest. Number one being signing the offer sheet with the Oil seven years ago in order to maximize his earnings and secondly not wanting to hang around the organization as they go through rough waters. I totally understand his mindset in each scenario, but he's not an all time beloved Sabre IMO. Truly enjoyed him as a Sabre, but he's always kind of had the mercenary attitude. Next! I agree with all of this. People seem to fail to realize he signed the offer sheet to leave. He was leaving. He didn't come back to the team and say look this is what I've got or anything just signed. So none of the current situation should surprise anyone. I did enjoy some of his time and often felt let down by him. As good as he is you there's more that he can give but chooses to coast etc. Good luck TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Thank you ThirtyEight.....and when you consider salary and age as well.... I want to rub Vanek's head. Darcy gave him 40% over his value for 7 years, and offered to do it again. Unbelievable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Not even if Luca Brasi attended the negotiations on the Sabres behalf. yeah but you would love that line :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKnowPhysics Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Among active players with 200+ career goals, Vanek is 12th in goals per game. He is a veteran, proven, top line goal scorer. Some team will pay him for the maximum term, and in all probability, for the maximum salary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Crotch Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 I agree with all of this. People seem to fail to realize he signed the offer sheet to leave. He was leaving. He didn't come back to the team and say look this is what I've got or anything just signed. So none of the current situation should surprise anyone. I did enjoy some of his time and often felt let down by him. As good as he is you there's more that he can give but chooses to coast etc. Good luck TV. F Vanek, I like Moulson better. :P (I'm only half kidding, I always really liked Matt Moulson.) Vanek never seemed like the "heart and soul" guy who wills his team to a championship through blood, sweat, and tears. Maybe I'm wrong, but I just never got the impression he was that sort of player. Talented for sure, but if he wants out, he wants out. Build around guys who want to be a Sabre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) 1 Crosby 2 Stamkos 3 Sedin 4 Ovi 5 Marleau 6 Kessel 7 St Louis 8 Couture 9 Duchene 10 Perry 11 Tavares 12 Thornton 13 Toews 14 Zetterberg 15 Datsyuk 16 Getzlaf 17 Sedin 18 Backstrom 19 Spezza 20 Benn 21 Subban 22 Kopitar 23 Sequin 24 Karlsson 25 Malkin 26 Parise 27 Kane 28 Ryan 29 OEL 30 Pietrangelo 31 Kronwall 32 Suter 33 Weber 34 Keith 35 Shattenkirk 36 Doughty 37 Seabrook 38 Niemi 39 Quick 40 Rask 41 Luongo 42 Rinne 43 Miller 44 Lundqvist 45 Giroux 46 Staal 47 Hall 48 Nash 49 Koivu 50 Kovalchuk (if still around) 51 Eriksson 52 Chara Keep going and get it closer to 100 and then I'll relax. Because that was more what I was calling out. It's somewhere between 40-70. Nowhere near 100. Koivu (age), Eriksson (talent), Shattenkirk (position), OEL (position), Seguin (still unproven), Backstrom (talent) are not worth more than Vanek. The point wasn't wrong, but the number was an exaggeration. Among active players with 200+ career goals, Vanek is 12th in goals per game. He is a veteran, proven, top line goal scorer. Some team will pay him for the maximum term, and in all probability, for the maximum salary. There is no "maximum salary." Nobody is paying him over $8 mill. I'd expect him to get something like 7 years, $49 mill or 8 and $53 million or so if extending. Edited October 29, 2013 by DStebb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 We over paid Vanek and he still didn't want to be here. Moulson has similar stats for a lot less pay and wants to be here from a suburb of Toronto, plus we get a 1st and 2nd. Great job by Darcy. Now sign him long term (Ott also) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubkev Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) We over paid Vanek and he still didn't want to be here. Moulson has similar stats for a lot less pay and wants to be here from a suburb of Toronto, plus we get a 1st and 2nd. Great job by Darcy. Now sign him long term (Ott also) Who says Moulson wants to be here? He's a UFA in a couple months. He'll be 30 and hes never been on a winner. "Hey Matt, its Darcy! Hey are you cool with not making g the playoff til you're 37? See we have all these draft picks and...hello?" Edit: and trade Ott too. Edited October 29, 2013 by ubkev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 There is no "maximum salary." Nobody is paying him over $8 mill. I'd expect him to get something like 7 years, $49 mill or 8 and $53 million or so if extending. Did the new CBA do away with the 20% of the cap max? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Among active players with 200+ career goals, Vanek is 12th in goals per game. He is a veteran, proven, top line goal scorer. Some team will pay him for the maximum term, and in all probability, for the maximum salary. He's probably worth 6 for $45....someone will give him 7 for $56 if a crap team...and 7 for $50 if good. The Sabres would have had to give him 7 for $69 if reports are correct.... That's apesh!t crazy!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Crotch Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 We traded a malcontent in Vanek for a guy who has scored more goals over the last few years, is less injury prone, and is less than 1/2 of Vanek's cap hit. Plus, we got a 1st and a 2nd. So if there was any way to resign Moulson for a reasonable amount (doubtful, but you never know). And, if the Isles tank with Vanek (doubtful, but you never know). Then, we'd get a cheaper goal scorer who wants to be here plus a nice 1st round pick to add to our surefire top-5 pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Did the new CBA do away with the 20% of the cap max? Well there is a max, but Vanek isn't getting it. So I just pushed it aside. We traded a malcontent in Vanek for a guy who has scored more goals over the last few years, is less injury prone, and is less than 1/2 of Vanek's cap hit. Plus, we got a 1st and a 2nd. So if there was any way to resign Moulson for a reasonable amount (doubtful, but you never know). And, if the Isles tank with Vanek (doubtful, but you never know). Then, we'd get a cheaper goal scorer who wants to be here plus a nice 1st round pick to add to our surefire top-5 pick. While I seriously doubt Moulson will want to stick around, I would love to have him. I wonder if something similar to Pominville's deal gets him to stick around. I won't mind overpaying him for multiple reasons: 1. Give Hodgson somebody to build confidence and skill with. 2. Have to get to the cap floor, so it's okay to overpay in a rebuild. But imagine if Moulson plays at a high-level here and doesn't want to be around? We might get another first and a top prospect out of it. He'll have proven that he isn't just a product of JT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Crotch Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 While I seriously doubt Moulson will want to stick around, I would love to have him. On NHL radio today they were joking that maybe having grandparents an hour up the road in Mississauga is enough to keep Moulson around (he has two young kids, one is a newborn I think?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveAndWarrener Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 I love how a guy who might think losing sucks and that the team isn't serious about winning is a "malcontent." The guy did his job and produced. We don't need to tar and feather a guy just because he's left town. Thank him for his service and move on. He's been an excellent Sabre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 On NHL radio today they were joking that maybe having grandparents an hour up the road in Mississauga is enough to keep Moulson around (he has two young kids, one is a newborn I think?). Buffalo is a great family city. Just not sure if Moulson is the type of guy who just wants to win. He's already spent his entire career in a rebuild. It takes a special kind of guy to not mind going through that again. If he extends in Buffalo there's a solid chance he'll never win while playing at a high level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Crotch Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 I love how a guy who might think losing sucks and that the team isn't serious about winning is a "malcontent." The guy did his job and produced. Malcontent in that you can't leave a guy on your roster for 3/4 of a year when everyone in the room knows he doesn't want to be there. That Vanek wanted out was the worst kept secret in the world. IMHO, you are best off with guys like that out of the room sooner rather than later (certainly Darcy could have moved him this summer). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro60 Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 If I was Vanek, I would not want to go through a 3 or 4 year rebuild at this stage of his career. He will become a Free Agent at the end of the season and all indications are that he wants to finish his career with Minnesota. Good luck to him and thanks for the time with the Sabres. He was a consistent player and tougher than what folks think. Time to the page for the Sabres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKnowPhysics Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 There is no "maximum salary." Did the new CBA do away with the 20% of the cap max? Well there is a max, but Vanek isn't getting it. So I just pushed it aside. Apologies, brain fart in my end. I incorrectly assumed for some reason the max was about $8.5-9.0M. That's the number I was thinking. Yes, there's a max, the individual salary cap is 20% of the team salary cap (20% of $64.3M is $12.86M). I knew that percentage too, I just didn't think to doublecheck my thinking above. Interesting concept that I hadn't seen discussed, one that I overlooked. If Vanek doesn't resign on the Island before the deadline, the Islanders will likely try to move him (just as we would with Matt Moulson), and I'm guessing that they could* recoup their picks. *Large presumption that Snow is at least of Feaster-grade intelligence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 yeah but vanek is less "moveable" because of his huge contract. And they won't move him if he and tavares find chemistry and are in a playoff spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 I love how a guy who might think losing sucks and that the team isn't serious about winning is a "malcontent." The guy did his job and produced. We don't need to tar and feather a guy just because he's left town. Thank him for his service and move on. He's been an excellent Sabre. :thumbsup: We can be a bitter bunch when we want to be. This was the right move for everyone involved. When they sent Gaustad out the door, the die was cast. It was only a matter of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kishoph Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Vanek: "I enjoyed my time there, but I didn’t want to be a part of that.” Thanks Tommy. I really can't blame him. He is in his prime, and in Buffalo he's never really had the A team of line-mates. He was probably more gracious than he needed to be. Vanek could of milked the Sabres and Darcy of a big contract to finish up his career, I give him credit for wanting to be somewhere where winning is going to be more important to him than being paid more money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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