Sabres’ Refusal to “Salute” Fans Confirmed

[PromoTheRobot]

41 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Meddling is telling the GM to trade a player, or draft a player,  etc.  

Meddling is not putting a stop to the players' fu@king with our fan base in a childish tit for tat snit.  

I expect him to know the difference.  

You're embarrassing your players publicly by calling them out. Not to mention going over the head of your coach and GM. 

[Flashsabre]

9 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Not really sure what that means, but, I’m innocent. I don’t play for the team and I certainly don’t go to games.

Take some ownership for your major part played in this mess😜😄

[PerreaultForever]

This speaks to something that many of us have talked about for a long time and that's the cultural problem in Buffalo, or perhaps better stated as the lack of a culture. This is a team of individuals who play for themselves (and this shows on ice often) and it is not a TEAM that plays with pride or makes the sacrifices and commitment that sort of culture requires. This is why it's been a disaster since Pegula took over. They tanked and gutted the team so there was no team left. But then instead of rebuilding the culture first, they tried to build a franchise around big names, bratty divas and big egos. What we see now is players who play for themselves when they need new contracts or want to reach milestones but in no way do they hate to lose. Matter of fact, I suspect most of them are quite happy to see the seasons end early so they don't have to do all that extra playoff work. 

Contrast this with Trotz in Nashville who is on record saying the FIRST thing he had to do was reset and rebuild the culture. I think the words were something like wins right now are nice but the main thing is to get these guys to play the right way and build a team culture to build on. 

Or Torts in Philly who said "first we have to subtract and then rebuild a culture and identity" and they are doing it.

Or contrast it with Boston who were booed recently and the response from Montgomery was "our fans are smart, we deserved to be booed" or from Marchand who as captain said "the fans were right. We have to be better". The thought of turning on the fans does not enter into a solidly built franchise. For them, the fans are all that matters. 

imo we'd all think a little better of TP if he'd reacted to this action by lambasting the players and ditching whoever the leader of this decision was. You don't have to fire the coach when the fans demand it, but you do have to accept their right to say it any way they want to. In Buffalo however, the players are pampered and the fans are taken for granted

[Broken Ankles]

  In contrast, our neighbors up north just signed Keefe to a two year extension this summer but rumors late January was that he was on the hot seat, and the front office might consider a change.  Their team is solidly in third place of the division, Keefe just signed an extension and yet he is in the hot seat. But Donny’s subpar performance doesn’t qualify for the same? That’s because they run a business, not a f#*$ing charity.  Did you hear anything from Leaf players about support for their coach?  Because the players are professional and they know it’s a business about winning.  Apparently this memo hasn’t matriculated to the locker room south of the border.

Maybe platitudes, but this is all you need to do to ingratiate yourself to the fans.  50 second mark of his post game last night.  

https://www.nhl.com/mapleleafs/video/auston-matthews-post-game-6347135355112

 

[Weave]

I am going to take a different stance.  That stick raise IS important.

No coincidence that the practice started with the Rags in MSG.  It is customary after a live performance that the cast recognize the audience’s applause and attendance with a bow and signs of appreciation of their own.  And it happens every night, not just on special nights.  It is a basic, “ you’re welcome” to those that made the effort to be there.

These athletes are performers and absolutely should be expected to acknowledge signs of appreciation for the paying audience. 

Im not going to assume it was KO that led this charge.  But I am deeply disappointed and displeased with whoever it was that championed this idea.  They have forgotten the basic tenet that they are performers first and foremost, and that those in the audience are fundamentally why they are there.

Im glad someone in the organization had the sense and leadership to turn the players around and acknowledge the support of those that were in attendance.  At least that someone had their head pointed straight.

***** with your paying crowd is stupid, at best.

[Weave]

Oh, and if this team needs a common enemy to rally around, and they decide the fans are that enemy, they are *****.  Straight up *****.  The cancer has metastasized somewhere else in the body.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I must say that I kinda like 'Angry @Weave

[Weave]

8 minutes ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

I must say that I kinda like 'Angry @Weave

Not angry in the slightest.  I suppose those censored bad words make it read otherwise.

[Pimlach]

6 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

You're embarrassing your players publicly by calling them out. Not to mention going over the head of your coach and GM. 

Embarrassing the players?  Hardly.  No one has to call them out.  They get to be anonymous unless they chose not to be.  

I believe that DG and KA hurt the team by not leading them to a better decision than this.  Especially Adams, he should have concluded that the players decision on this issue while understandable, was not the correct path.  All that frustration by the players was for nothing as they slipped further down in the standings anyway.  Misguided is what this was.  

So what happens if DG gets fired anyway, who is at fault?   Not the few fans who were chanting, its on the players.  

Going over the head of the GM or Coach is a point to be taken seriously, I do agree.   TP, assuming he knew about it, could have worked this quietly, immediately, and without any press involvement.  This is a time when the owner steps in.  His customers should be his priority.  This is more of an owner policy than who to draft or who to trade.  

I would love to know if and when TP was aware of this and what he said about it.  I sure hope he would have been the kind of leader to shut it down.  

Final note, you keep throwing the meddling thing at me, as if to imply anything Terry does could be called meddling.   I do not think the owner has zero involvement, on the contrary the owner sets the tone for how things are run. The owner sets the culture and the strategy.   If the customers are not his top priority the business will fail.   That said, this owner in this business should not be involved in decisions on trades and draft choices.  He sets the budget, that is understandable. 

[Flashsabre]

51 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

This speaks to something that many of us have talked about for a long time and that's the cultural problem in Buffalo, or perhaps better stated as the lack of a culture. This is a team of individuals who play for themselves (and this shows on ice often) and it is not a TEAM that plays with pride or makes the sacrifices and commitment that sort of culture requires. This is why it's been a disaster since Pegula took over. They tanked and gutted the team so there was no team left. But then instead of rebuilding the culture first, they tried to build a franchise around big names, bratty divas and big egos. What we see now is players who play for themselves when they need new contracts or want to reach milestones but in no way do they hate to lose. Matter of fact, I suspect most of them are quite happy to see the seasons end early so they don't have to do all that extra playoff work. 

Contrast this with Trotz in Nashville who is on record saying the FIRST thing he had to do was reset and rebuild the culture. I think the words were something like wins right now are nice but the main thing is to get these guys to play the right way and build a team culture to build on. 

Or Torts in Philly who said "first we have to subtract and then rebuild a culture and identity" and they are doing it.

Or contrast it with Boston who were booed recently and the response from Montgomery was "our fans are smart, we deserved to be booed" or from Marchand who as captain said "the fans were right. We have to be better". The thought of turning on the fans does not enter into a solidly built franchise. For them, the fans are all that matters. 

imo we'd all think a little better of TP if he'd reacted to this action by lambasting the players and ditching whoever the leader of this decision was. You don't have to fire the coach when the fans demand it, but you do have to accept their right to say it any way they want to. In Buffalo however, the players are pampered and the fans are taken for granted

Good post.  There is no way in the world a rebuild should take 13 years and counting. It is culture.

Boston don’t get high draft picks every year. They have a strong winning culture. They have people in place that have identified what it takes to win and they look for coaches and players that fit that mold. Their vet leaders understand it and lead the way and new players and young kids coming in are held to those standards and learn to play to them. Every year the Bruins lose key guys and everyone writes them off yet they still end up competing.

There is none of that in Buffalo. Just year after year of first time GMs, first time coaches with ECHL assistants and a lack of quality vets in the ice to lead the way. Just a boatload of young picks being thrown to the wolves without a plan or culture and just hope they somehow figure it out.

The frustrating part is that this isn’t rocket science. Look how Tocchet, Foote and Gonchar turned Vancouver around in one season, Bowness in Winnipeg. Accountability, expectations, simple, structured defensive system and a solid plan on the PP

Edited February 18 by Flashsabre

[bunomatic]

Not sure anyone has mentioned it but the stick salute is a thing in Europe and carried over to the NHL when the Euro heavy teams adopted the tradition. Rather than the salute I’d like to see the players came onto the ice in the first period ready to compete and lay it all out there for the fans but more importantly for their own pride. I mean what better way to collectively give the paying fans the middle finger than to come out flat every single home game. I could care less that they choose not to acknowledge the fans with the salute. Give me some effort and compete when it matters. From the first puckdrop. I’ll also add that the us against the world is from the coaching 101 handbook. All coaches resort to that tactic in some form or another.
 

Edited February 18 by bunomatic

[spndnchz]

I’ve never heard but one section chant this. 
 

and it’s fun after a win to see the ‘stick raise’. 
 

Let’s totally overboard on something else.

[shrader]

2 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

Arena experience snobbery! Lol.

There’s nothing so ear splitting as the sound from a noise meter graphic during a kid-heavy, sold-out matinee.

You should see it down here. They have the volume jacked up so high that I could feel an uncomfortable vibration in my chest. I don’t know if it’s just certain seats, but it was genuinely uncomfortable. 

[shrader]

56 minutes ago, Weave said:

I am going to take a different stance.  That stick raise IS important.

No coincidence that the practice started with the Rags in MSG.  It is customary after a live performance that the cast recognize the audience’s applause and attendance with a bow and signs of appreciation of their own.  And it happens every night, not just on special nights.  It is a basic, “ you’re welcome” to those that made the effort to be there.

I like that you chose a scripted event as an example. 

[GoPuckYourself]

To be fair i thought they stopped it because they never win at home.... Who knew? 

 

[...]

2 hours ago, Doohickie said:

As was stated up thread, I never see it anyway as an expat who watches the games on ESPN+.  This is such a non-issue to me.  I think most fans also don't notice because they're already on their way to the exits.

Call me crazy, but I can swear @That Aud Smell clarified multiple times up thread that this take completely misses the point of the thread.

[Weave]

39 minutes ago, shrader said:

I like that you chose a scripted event as an example. 

Performers are performers.  Entertainment is entertainment.  The only difference is the outcome might not be known in advance.

[OverPowerYou]

53 minutes ago, GoPuckYourself said:

To be fair i thought they stopped it because they never win at home.... Who knew? 

 

 

is it really a home game when you have 7600 people in the building and half of them are fans of the other team?

[Mango]

Man the 1200 people that show up will be super bummed they don't get a waive after they tie their season record win streak of .... checks notes....2 games!

It is bonkers to me. This team sat there on RJ night and Ryan Miller night and veterans of old told them point blank "if you turn this thing around, there is no better place to play hockey".

Then they played in front of a packed and rowdy crowd and they said "Yeah, Lets Forking Gooo!

They opened up the season with a letter to the fans that basically said "Hold my beer, I gotchu". 

Now they are going to turn on the 25% capacity crowd that still shows up to see them even though they can't win more than 2 games in a row. And why? Because they booed at a team that got their ashes kicked by the worst team in the league, who fired their GM shortly after? 2 years ago until last offseason I was pretty loud that I thought this team was on to something. They were playing fun, fast, and watchable hockey. They were young. This could be the group. 

Whoever is turning on this town after stringing together seasons with P% of .493, .330, .457, .555, and .481 can GTFO at this point. Maybe I am firing from the hip, but it feels like we may be approaching the "cut out the cancer" part of the Sabres life cycle again. 

Thanks Terry

[Mango]

8 hours ago, Pimlach said:

The players no salute policy stopped after the 7-0 win last week.  Even then, they were skating off but were redirected, and some of them went out to the circle.  Big deal for them.     

Ironically, since the home wins are so scarce, most of us never knew this was happening.  My TV feed on ESPN+ does not include post game.  
 

I read the article 3 times.  I am more upset that Granato and Adams could even allow that to be their response.  No one is in charge, to coin an old phrase - the lunatics are running the asylum. 
 

This group lacks accountability in the biggest ways.  The things they say about the 13 year drought, especially alluding to “we haven’t been here for that long” tell me how much, or little, they care.  It’s now beyond the players and it’s infected the coaching and the FO.   

Can it get any worse ?  

 

This times a million. 

Nobody is showing up to games. If Terry were to do only 2 more things going forward it would be: 

1. Hire a POH and never show up to a hockey related meeting ever again
2. March down to the locker room and tell each and every one of those guys to cut the shirt. For every player that refuses, I will plaster your face on a billboard saying what an ash hole you are to this town. Nobody comes into this rink and disrespects this building or these fans. You do it again after that and I will make it my sole mission in life to make sure you never play another second of professional hockey in North America. I will pay every owner $1M each to not sign you. Respect this ice, respect this building, respect these fans, or get used to the cold cause you and your family will be in Russia. 

[Mango]

7 hours ago, ska-T Chitown said:

My impression of the discussion isn't so much that those that are complaining are doing so because they so desperately need to see the stick salute; but rather the Sabres' reason for stopping it is childish. I forget who mentioned it up-thread, but I also recall that it was a PR move by the league after the lockout.

As for the players. who do they expect the fans to yell to get fired? The chant would be incredibly long and hard to coordinate if the fans listed out all the underperforming players on any given night, lol.

Honest question. Would an "EAT-SHIRT-TER-RY. CLAP- CLAP- clap clap clap" chant be a reasonable compromise. Because I could get behind that. And honestly this should maybe be what we are chanting anyways. 

Maybe I will drive in for the next game and try and start it. 

Edited February 18 by Mango

[JoeSchmoe]

 

 

[Buffalonill]

This team is so unlikeable I want them to succeed but part of me just wants to start over with players that Actually care 

 

[Sabres73]

I dunno, this whole salute thing is relatively new in sports in the last decade or two. It was fine before the salute came into vogue, and it seems a little gratuitous. I don't care about this at all. It has nothing to do with disrespecting the fans.

[PASabreFan]

I'm guilty of popping into threads and popping off from time to time so I can't be too mad. But a number of people don't seem to grasp the issue here.