Idle SabreSpacer speculation re: Patrick Kane

[PASabreFan]

You sign him if he's better than the player whose position he takes.

I continue to smh.

[That Aud Smell]

21 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Signing Kane before the season would be strange given the injury

ah shoot - i keep forgetting this. nfw then.

[xzy89c1]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

He very well could hurt the team. First of all, what position is he going to be taking? Is he really going to be THAT much better of a scorer than one of the young guys/wingers?  His production has been dropping over the past couple years, he's going to be 35 years old the next time he skates in an NHL game (with a LOT of miles even for a 35 year old). And he is coming off of a major injury/surgery. Over the past few seasons, he has turned into about a 25 goal per 82 game guy, and now he is a year older with that surgery and major injury so I think there is a good chance he won't even be that 25 goal guy.  So you are getting a guy who would likely be outscored by Victor Olofsson. 

That is his recent offensive production. Defense?  If people think Olofsson is bad, take a look at Kane.  He is next level bad.  Someone posted some advanced stats last year that showed he wasn't good at all. Basic stats show despite all his offensive production, he is a -48 over the last 3 seasons and he hasn't even been a plus 10 more for 7 seasons.  And watch him play.  I am not a coach and I don't know where people should or should not be on the ice but the 10 or so games per year I see him play I watch him and the eye test? it is really really bad in terms of his effort, positioning, and effectiveness of backchecking or winning battles (when that even occurs).

So he won't hurt the team? I disagree with that.  An aging, injured, declining production player who doesn't have the skill nor the ability to play much defense can for sure hurt your team if he takes that spot away from even the youngest of your prospects who could be there.

you are dead on. He is king of changing instead of backchecking. He put up stats on an awful team where he was focal point. He would be an awful signing. Thankfully, all of KA moves are around building a cohesive team not catering to a malcontent like Kane. He will be a cancer wherever he ends up.

Also if you look at our biggest needs, they are face offs and penalty killing. he brings neither. And did i mention he is a horrendous defensive player 🙂 

[nfreeman]

2 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

He very well could hurt the team. First of all, what position is he going to be taking? Is he really going to be THAT much better of a scorer than one of the young guys/wingers?  His production has been dropping over the past couple years, he's going to be 35 years old the next time he skates in an NHL game (with a LOT of miles even for a 35 year old). And he is coming off of a major injury/surgery. Over the past few seasons, he has turned into about a 25 goal per 82 game guy, and now he is a year older with that surgery and major injury so I think there is a good chance he won't even be that 25 goal guy.  So you are getting a guy who would likely be outscored by Victor Olofsson. 

That is his recent offensive production. Defense?  If people think Olofsson is bad, take a look at Kane.  He is next level bad.  Someone posted some advanced stats last year that showed he wasn't good at all. Basic stats show despite all his offensive production, he is a -48 over the last 3 seasons and he hasn't even been a plus 10 more for 7 seasons.  And watch him play.  I am not a coach and I don't know where people should or should not be on the ice but the 10 or so games per year I see him play I watch him and the eye test? it is really really bad in terms of his effort, positioning, and effectiveness of backchecking or winning battles (when that even occurs).

So he won't hurt the team? I disagree with that.  An aging, injured, declining production player who doesn't have the skill nor the ability to play much defense can for sure hurt your team if he takes that spot away from even the youngest of your prospects who could be there.

Oh, and this Sabres team is no longer a team with seemingly endless cap space.  And this is before signing Dahlin or Power. Once those deals are done, cap space will become a decision in any deal. I don't want Kane taking up really any cap space that will make it harder to aquire/fit in anyone else around the trade deadline (or offseason if Kane wants more than a 1 year deal.)

You are free to dislike him -- he's provided ample reason to do so -- but we need to deal in facts here.  Last season he had a major injury and fell off the table.  The season before, at age 33, he had 92 pts (14th in the NHL!) in 78 games for a crappy team with a 56% FF% and a 54.5% XGF%.

It's quite possible the surgery doesn't take and he never gets his wheels back.  If he does, though, he's a major weapon who can score it and pass it at an elite level, with a ton of playoff experience.  And he'd be playing in his hometown, trying to help the franchise turn the page from an awful, misbegotten era to an exciting new one.  You want a loud, raucous, sold-out arena that creates a real home-ice advantage?  Here's one way to help get there.

If he's healthy, it's a no-brainer IMHO.

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

You are free to dislike him -- he's provided ample reason to do so -- but we need to deal in facts here.  Last season he had a major injury and fell off the table.  The season before, at age 33, he had 92 pts (14th in the NHL!) in 78 games for a crappy team with a 56% FF% and a 54.5% XGF%.

It's quite possible the surgery doesn't take and he never gets his wheels back.  If he does, though, he's a major weapon who can score it and pass it at an elite level, with a ton of playoff experience.  And he'd be playing in his hometown, trying to help the franchise turn the page from an awful, misbegotten era to an exciting new one.  You want a loud, raucous, sold-out arena that creates a real home-ice advantage?  Here's one way to help get there.

If he's healthy, it's a no-brainer IMHO.

Ya, I find it odd that people were happy they re-signed Kyle Okposo and Zemgus Girgensens but Patrick Kane is an over the hill has been they don't want to add. Strange way of thinking imo. 

I really don't think Kane has any interest in coming here but adding a guy like that would be huge.  No, he won't get 92 points but what's Quinn's projection? Peterka? Mitts? etc?  How many points does he actually have to add to be valuable? and the experience and leadership would also be huge. 

But again, I don't see him coming. Coming to Buffalo is all pressure for him and it's a cup team he wants where he can slide into a lesser profile role. There's a slim chance he wants a hometown finish, but I'd doubt it. 

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Ya, I find it odd that people were happy they re-signed Kyle Okposo and Zemgus Girgensens but Patrick Kane is an over the hill has been they don't want to add. Strange way of thinking imo. 

I really don't think Kane has any interest in coming here but adding a guy like that would be huge.  No, he won't get 92 points but what's Quinn's projection? Peterka? Mitts? etc?  How many points does he actually have to add to be valuable? and the experience and leadership would also be huge. 

But again, I don't see him coming. Coming to Buffalo is all pressure for him and it's a cup team he wants where he can slide into a lesser profile role. There's a slim chance he wants a hometown finish, but I'd doubt it. 

I'm happy that Okposo and Girgs were re-signed. Why would you find that odd? You more than most commentators have strenuously argued for this team to play with more toughness. (Rightly so.)These two fourth liners are a couple of our best forward defenders and leaders on a team full of players who are not as mindful of their defensive responsibilities as they should be. 

I agree with you that I don't think that Kane has much interest in playing here. Can he continue to play at a high-level that he has played for most of his career? Maybe not quite, but he still can be a valuable asset in the right situation. I just don't think that western NY is the right situation for him. I would rather see Savoie or Kurlick given the opportunity to play while Quinn is on the mend. 

[Zamboni]

On 8/23/2023 at 11:52 AM, Hawerchuk said:

Never say never, but I'm gonna say never on this one.

 

On 8/23/2023 at 12:28 PM, #freejame said:

It’s not just clickbait but it mostly is

[GoPuckYourself]

Can he play goalie?

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, JohnC said:

I'm happy that Okposo and Girgs were re-signed. Why would you find that odd?

Because Kyle is 35 and scored 11 goals last year and 28 points (and has an injury history) while Kane is 34 and scored 21 goals and 67 points so for people to be happy Kyle is signed and also say Kane is over the hill is just silly. 

[JohnC]

3 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Because Kyle is 35 and scored 11 goals last year and 28 points (and has an injury history) while Kane is 34 and scored 21 goals and 67 points so for people to be happy Kyle is signed and also say Kane is over the hill is just silly. 

I didn't say Kane is over the hill. You are off the mark interpreting what I actually did say.  What I said is that Okposo and Girgs are better fits for this team this season. This is very likely Okposo's last season in hockey. Keeping the both of them was the right call for this upcoming year.  

[French Collection]

I haven’t been a fan of Kane coming to Buffalo. 
He is not what the team needs, PK, faceoffs, defensive play, grit etc…

With Quinn’s injury I would consider him as a replacement but he is injured as well.

A big fat no from me.

[Huckleberry]

I don't get people saying no to this, a healthy Kane you add to de line up anytime.  Just the look at the numbers he put up playing injured last 2 years. 

Kane on a line with Cozens and Mittelstadt would be firework,  and you can have a 3rd line of  Peterka - Krebs - Quinn.

[mjd1001]

7 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

I don't get people saying no to this, a healthy Kane you add to de line up anytime.  Just the look at the numbers he put up playing injured last 2 years. 

Kane on a line with Cozens and Mittelstadt would be firework,  and you can have a 3rd line of  Peterka - Krebs - Quinn.

To many people he isn't very likeable. (to each their own reasons).  As far as his numbers, he is basically a mid 20 goal scorer per 82 games over the last few years with awful defensive play and defensive metrics (same for his whole career even when he was on a good team.) AND he is coming off of a major injury/surgery now at 35 years of age. After joining the Rangers, he wasn't really a difference maker for them (6 goals in 26 games including playoffs, a 19 goal pace)  To me, not much to like.

Edited August 25, 2023 by mjd1001

[Eli Cash]

Signing Patrick Kane would remind me of John Brandon’s signing of Terrell Owens.  Thankfully, Adams appears to be a real GM.

[Drag0nDan]

So he has been dealing with a hip injury for a long time, and hip injuries have proven career ending for lots of players.... Ryan Kesler, Andrew Ference, Brent Seabrook.  We'll see on Backstrom and Kane though, i think kane gets a 1yr deal halfway through the season somewhere with LTIR space or something like that. 

[Drag0nDan]

3 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

To many people he isn't very likeable. (to each their own reasons).  As far as his numbers, he is basically a mid 20 goal scorer per 82 games over the last few years with awful defensive play and defensive metrics (same for his whole career even when he was on a good team.) AND he is coming off of a major injury/surgery now at 35 years of age. After joining the Rangers, he wasn't really a difference maker for them (6 goals in 26 games including playoffs, a 19 goal pace)  To me, not much to like.

Well... he was injured last year and played through it...

He was greater than a point per game the previous 4 seasons.  To me it comes down to physicals, can he still play?

[mjd1001]

11 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said:

Well... he was injured last year and played through it...

He was greater than a point per game the previous 4 seasons.  To me it comes down to physicals, can he still play?

Except when you consider the age and the wear-and-tear. Hes going to be 35, with additional playing time, a surgery, and injuries since the last time he was a point per game player.

 

[PerreaultForever]

16 hours ago, JohnC said:

I didn't say Kane is over the hill. You are off the mark interpreting what I actually did say.  What I said is that Okposo and Girgs are better fits for this team this season. This is very likely Okposo's last season in hockey. Keeping the both of them was the right call for this upcoming year.  

Now how did you manage to think my original comment was about YOU? Come on man, I made a comment on a board to the board, not to your personal DMs. Go have a beer and chill. 

[Eleven]

1 minute ago, PerreaultForever said:

Now how did you manage to think my original comment was about YOU? Come on man, I made a comment on a board to the board, not to your personal DMs. Go have a beer and chill. 

It actually was about me, I know.  I'm so vain, I think your song is about me.

[PerreaultForever]

2 minutes ago, Eleven said:

It actually was about me, I know.  I'm so vain, I think your song is about me.

Well everything's about you. I mean I'm PerreaultForever and you're 11 so there's a mirror and an echo in here somewhere. 

[#freejame]

Hip issues aside, Kane was always destined to have a much more gradual decline because what makes him a star are his hands and eyes. As long as he is of serviceable skating his PPG should be at or exceed his last years number. 

[Drag0nDan]

24 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Except when you consider the age and the wear-and-tear. Hes going to be 35, with additional playing time, a surgery, and injuries since the last time he was a point per game player.

 

Thats what i meant with physicals though.  Can he play at a higher level than he did with the injury, and can he match some of his play from before that?  My assumption is no, as most people with bad hip injuries tend to retire.  I suspect he gets signed, gets injured again, and retires. 

[JohnC]

4 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Now how did you manage to think my original comment was about YOU? Come on man, I made a comment on a board to the board, not to your personal DMs. Go have a beer and chill. 

You ask how I thought you were responding to my post. Because you responded directly to my post. Thanks for the clarification. 

[...]

Who sees Kane delivering a powerful, inspiring locker room speech during the second intermission of a game that could put the Sabres into the playoffs but they're down three points?

[thewookie1]

7 minutes ago, ... said:

Who sees Kane delivering a powerful, inspiring locker room speech during the second intermission of a game that could put the Sabres into the playoffs but they're down three points?

Probably not, I could see him making a magical play to start one though