Attendance issues at whatever our arena is named now

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

First of all, how do you expect people to pay for season tickets when they know they can get bargain tickets at a fire sale? A team should not crap on its season ticket base pursuing casual fans. And they are casual fans because price wouldn't keep real fans from games. You can see a mid week game for $29. How much cheaper should they be? 

Would cheaper tickets draw more fans? The Sabres have the 4th cheapest average ticket at $55.22. Meanwhile the Florida Panthers, one of the most talented and exciting teams in the league, have the lowest average at $37.19. And yet last year they averaged just 14,811 in a building that can hold 19,500. So apparently bargain priced tickets and a cup contender still won't fill a building.

Ticket prices are fine. The team is on the rise. There's nothing stopping Sabres fans from going to games other than disinterest.

 

I don't agree. I pay for seasons for both teams. Giving casual fans a better deal would be a slap in the face to people who support the team.

You are missing my point. Having more flexibility in the pricing of tickets when the arena is often half filled isn't a bad thing. It can bring more fans into the arena in the short-term and result in a larger customer base in the not too distant longer-term. In addition, what you are losing sight of is that the franchise will increase its revenue take. How is that a bad thing? Marketing rigidity is not a solution to a clear attendance problem as much as it is an obstacle to getting this franchise back on a more stable financial footing. 

[PromoTheRobot]

31 minutes ago, JohnC said:

You are missing my point. Having more flexibility in the pricing of tickets when the arena is often half filled isn't a bad thing. It can bring more fans into the arena in the short-term and result in a larger customer base in the not too distant longer-term. In addition, what you are losing sight of is that the franchise will increase its revenue take. How is that a bad thing? Marketing rigidity is not a solution to a clear attendance problem as much as it is an obstacle to getting this franchise back on a more stable financial footing. 

So you don't care about undercutting season ticket holders? It's pretty much proven cutting prices is a road to nowhere. It's not like the Sabres are charging Leafs prices. If people won't go to a game at $29 they won't go at $25.

And speaking of prices, have you noticed you can't find $6 seats on StubHub anymore? In fact resale tickets are priced higher than box office right now.

[Contempt]

5 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

First of all, how do you expect people to pay for season tickets when they know they can get bargain tickets at a fire sale? A team should not crap on its season ticket base pursuing casual fans. And they are casual fans because price wouldn't keep real fans from games. You can see a mid week game for $29. How much cheaper should they be? 

Would cheaper tickets draw more fans? The Sabres have the 4th cheapest average ticket at $55.22. Meanwhile the Florida Panthers, one of the most talented and exciting teams in the league, have the lowest average at $37.19. And yet last year they averaged just 14,811 in a building that can hold 19,500. So apparently bargain priced tickets and a cup contender still won't fill a building.

Ticket prices are fine. The team is on the rise. There's nothing stopping Sabres fans from going to games other than disinterest.

 

I don't agree. I pay for seasons for both teams. Giving casual fans a better deal would be a slap in the face to people who support the team.

That's all fine. What do you do to pursue casual fans then because the STHers dont come close to filling the building? The way I see they are keeping the building half empty to keep you happy. There are other ways to do that. Their sales and marketing department sucks.

[Contempt]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

So you don't care about undercutting season ticket holders? It's pretty much proven cutting prices is a road to nowhere. It's not like the Sabres are charging Leafs prices. If people won't go to a game at $29 they won't go at $25.

And speaking of prices, have you noticed you can't find $6 seats on StubHub anymore? In fact resale tickets are priced higher than box office right now.

There aren't $6 resale tickets because people dropped their ST and don't have them to dump anymore. I'm serious about that Red Wings game in December, take a look at what they have left to sell. It's crazy. The ONLY tickets they've sold to that game are STHers and probably only the full season ones at that.

[PerreaultForever]

Just WIN and the fans will return. Simple as that. 

People are still skeptical and afraid of wasting their money on a bad effort/result. Can't blame them. It's been a long road of suffering. Give it time, win, and it'll all be back to how it was. 

Another cycle of losing hockey however will make that much harder if not impossible. 

[Marvin]

32 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Just WIN and the fans will return. Simple as that. 

People are still skeptical and afraid of wasting their money on a bad effort/result. Can't blame them. It's been a long road of suffering. Give it time, win, and it'll all be back to how it was. 

Another cycle of losing hockey however will make that much harder if not impossible. 

Not only that: the Sabres have had a few years of fool's gold with great starts followed by slides out of contention.  (Blame XGMJB for one of them ending SOOOOOO badly.)  So fans are even more likely to be skeptical about anything unless there is consistent performance.

[tom webster]

10 hours ago, JohnC said:

How does the organization benefit when there is a persistent abundance of empty seats? That empty seat is not going to have anyone pay cash at the concession stand. Even with a discounted ticket that is added revenue. It's not unusual for students to get significant discounts. And it's not unusual for military or police and safety personnel get discounted tickets. My point is that price flexibility is a standard practice when marketing a product. 

Providing discount tickets is a standard marketing tool to get your targeted audience to try your product with the hope that you will get return visits. It's more likely that an attendee, even with a discounted ticket, will return for additional games with family and friends if they have an enjoyable experience at a game.   

I don't totally dismiss the fairness issue to the loyal season ticket holder. But there is a way to handle that issue: Provide more benefits to the loyal season ticket customers by providing greater discounts for concessions and store products. You can also have more player meet and greets and locker room tours. Some of those tactics are already happening but it can be done on a greater scale. 

As others have repeatedly stated the best way to increase attendance is to have a winning and entertaining team. I believe the organization is moving in the right direction in that area. But having more marketing creativity will also help to increase attendance and hopefully soon get to the point where you won't have to work so hard to get people to attend the games because the product will sell itself. The reality is that we are not there yet. 

Crunch some numbers. Are they really losing if they get 12K with a $60M payroll versus 19K with an $85M?

[JohnC]

10 hours ago, tom webster said:

Crunch some numbers. Are they really losing if they get 12K with a $60M payroll versus 19K with an $85M?

The Sabres have a number of good young players whose contracts will significantly rise when their next contract comes up. So the payroll should go up. And if you desire the Sabres to be a serious cup contending team their payroll will certainly have to go up. The ownership could keep the payroll down for the next number of years but if they do (don't expect they will) the fan base will wither even more. 

I have never argued that the organization should give away tickets at a penny on the dollar going out of business price. All that I have argued for is more price flexibility to induce fans to fill the copious amount of empty seats. The marketing strategy of inducing people to attend your games in the short-term will pay dividends in the longer term with an expanded paying audience. 

[John Tucker]

After being hosed by ownership/management for 10+ years, it's going to be tough to win back the fans without actually making the playoffs.  Hell, we'll be closing in on almost an entire generation of Sabres fans that have never experienced playoff hockey.

[BMWR100RT]

1 hour ago, John Tucker said:

After being hosed by ownership/management for 10+ years, it's going to be tough to win back the fans without actually making the playoffs.  Hell, we'll be closing in on almost an entire generation of Sabres fans that have never experienced playoff hockey.

I've taken my family a few times prior to COVID traveling from the Rochester area. The place was dead and both times were big losses. My kids didn't hate it, but it's not like with the Bills when they were bad, where at least the tailgaiting was fun. I won't take them again, but it's a chicken / egg thing. They have never know the Sabres to be playoff good although when they were little they wore slug Briere/Drury/Miller gear. they were too young to remember that.

I'll also offer that my 65" HDTV cost less than a game with the family and the televised product is so much better than it used to be.   

Edited October 31, 2022 by BMWR100RT

[tom webster]

3 hours ago, JohnC said:

The Sabres have a number of good young players whose contracts will significantly rise when their next contract comes up. So the payroll should go up. And if you desire the Sabres to be a serious cup contending team their payroll will certainly have to go up. The ownership could keep the payroll down for the next number of years but if they do (don't expect they will) the fan base will wither even more. 

I have never argued that the organization should give away tickets at a penny on the dollar going out of business price. All that I have argued for is more price flexibility to induce fans to fill the copious amount of empty seats. The marketing strategy of inducing people to attend your games in the short-term will pay dividends in the longer term with an expanded paying audience. 

All businesses have two choices when it comes to selling their product. Strive for the best and price it accordingly. Strive to be the cheapest and make it up on volume. Anything in the middle is a waste of time.

Discounts and coupons invariably lead to price conscious consumers who only spend when induced by coupons /discounts and said coupons/discounts devalue your product.

[PromoTheRobot]

19 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Just WIN and the fans will return. Simple as that. 

People are still skeptical and afraid of wasting their money on a bad effort/result. Can't blame them. It's been a long road of suffering. Give it time, win, and it'll all be back to how it was. 

Another cycle of losing hockey however will make that much harder if not impossible. 

Maybe after the Bills are done.  If the Sabres are in playoff contention after the Bills are done and still can't fill the building, then you'll know this market is toast.

Edited October 31, 2022 by PromoTheRobot

[#freejame]

Red Wings broadcast making fun of our attendance...

[mudberry]

Not sure how it is in Buffalo, but the last game I went to was a few years ago in Phoenix and I was so annoyed by the loud music in between plays that I don't think I'll go to another game there again. Is this a standard practice in the NHL, or is it something that mostly occurs in the non-traditional markets? I always enjoyed talking about what I saw after the whistle and feel like this is difficult when I'm covering my ears. Are there people who would not go to games if the non-hockey entertainment didn't exist?

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, #freejame said:

Red Wings broadcast making fun of our attendance...

Not so much when the fans were chanting "we want 8"

[Taro T]

Wasn't anywhere close to the 9,600 announced.  Probably 5,000.  Seems all of the mini pack holders were not interested in this one as at least 1/2 of the "good" 100 level seats were empty & there were at least 7 sections in the 300's that had 30 people or less in them.

Darn shame, those fans dressed as empty seats saw the Sabres lay a whooping on the Wings.

[Eleven]

25 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Wasn't anywhere close to the 9,600 announced.  Probably 5,000.  Seems all of the mini pack holders were not interested in this one as at least 1/2 of the "good" 100 level seats were empty & there were at least 7 sections in the 300's that had 30 people or less in them.

Darn shame, those fans dressed as empty seats saw the Sabres lay a whooping on the Wings.

This is the perfect example of a game I would have selected when I split seasons with one other guy, too.  Weeknight, early, can get Dad in and out of the arena, all that.  I really would have loved to go to this one.

[Taro T]

5 minutes ago, Eleven said:

This is the perfect example of a game I would have selected when I split seasons with one other guy, too.  Weeknight, early, can get Dad in and out of the arena, all that.  I really would have loved to go to this one.

 

Pretty sure there's tickets available for the Yotes game in a week if you're in town.  Might have an even sparser crowd.  You should be able to get your old man all around w/ no issues for that one.

[Eleven]

11 minutes ago, Taro T said:

 

Pretty sure there's tickets available for the Yotes game in a week if you're in town.  Might have an even sparser crowd.  You should be able to get your old man all around w/ no issues for that one.

I won't be :(.

[Weave]

On 10/29/2022 at 11:46 AM, PromoTheRobot said:

We've got a million excuses. The bottom line is not enough people go to games. You say they'll come when the win? They've been playing winning hockey the last three months. The arena? You're not a hockey fan if the arena is stopping you. Too expensive? Go anywhere else and buy a ticket, buy a beer or pay for parking. I think Buffalo needs to prove it's still an NHL market. If you can't be bothered to go watch the current team then maybe the AHL is more your speed.

I’ve been debating about how to reply to your posts here.  This morning it all came together.

I am a Sabres fan.  We never had alot of discretionary income when I was young.  We used to roll up on the Aud at 7:10 and buy whatever tix the scalpers had left at a pretty good discount.  For a short while I had season tix in the oranges.  I couldn’t afford tix at the new arena and ended up only seeing a few games a year live.  I was still a Sabres fan.

When the team became good again around Drury and Briere and Miller I had already cut the cable cord.  We bummed off friends and nursed a beer or two at bars to watch the insane runs.  I was still a Sabres fan.

The last decade plus has severely wounded the fanbase.  This Sabres fan stopped watching.  So how am I a fan?  I still paid attention.  I still kept up on what they were and weren’t doing.  I stayed here and debated with you guys about what was wrong and what was right.  I mostly tuned into until it was unbearable to watch and then I turned it off.  Usually that was before the end of the 1st period.  I still bought merch. But there was no way I was going to pay for a ticket for the crap that’s been on the ice for a decade or more.  Hell, I wasn’t going to pay to watch at home either.  But I still cared.  I was still a Sabres fan.

so, today….. I realized this morning that I haven’t felt compelled to watch something else at all so far this season.  I still respect my sleep schedule, which means I stop watching after 2 periods, but it is not because I am going to watch something more compelling.  Before the Pegulas ruined this team I watched the game and lost sleep on weeknights.  Now, I watch, but I won’t lose sleep over the games.  I’m still a fan.

The process of winning back this fanbase is going to take time.  Even the most devoted of fans lost interest. You can be a dick and proclaim that maybe we should be fans of an AHL team, but the reality is, the Pegulas did this and it is going to take more than 40 or so games to get formerly devoted fans back to being fanatics again.  It may take repeat playoff seasons.  This is what happens when you choose a plan that decimates a team for a decade.  Remember, the Pegulas turned their backs on us first.

I am a fan.  Your condescension can get put in a piss bucket.  You spend your money how you see fit.  I’ll put mine in a better investment until I am convinced that this isn’t a 2018 win streak.

Edited November 1, 2022 by Weave

[CallawaySabres]

Monday night game after Bills Sunday Night game, I will give the attendance a pass on that one.

[Justin C]

7 minutes ago, CallawaySabres said:

Monday night game after Bills Sunday Night game, I will give the attendance a pass on that one.

Plus Halloween. Kids are going to be out trick or treating instead of going to a game.

[PASabreFan]

2 hours ago, Weave said:

I’ve been debating about how to reply to your posts here.  This morning it all came together.

I am a Sabres fan.  We never had alot of discretionary income when I was young.  We used to roll up on the Aud at 7:10 and buy whatever tix the scalpers had left at a pretty good discount.  For a short while I had season tix in the oranges.  I couldn’t afford tix at the new arena and ended up only seeing a few games a year live.  I was still a Sabres fan.

When the team became good again around Drury and Briere and Miller I had already cut the cable cord.  We bummed off friends and nursed a beer or two at bars to watch the insane runs.  I was still a Sabres fan.

The last decade plus has severely wounded the fanbase.  This Sabres fan stopped watching.  So how am I a fan?  I still paid attention.  I still kept up on what they were and weren’t doing.  I stayed here and debated with you guys about what was wrong and what was right.  I mostly tuned into until it was unbearable to watch and then I turned it off.  Usually that was before the end of the 1st period.  I still bought merch. But there was no way I was going to pay for a ticket for the crap that’s been on the ice for a decade or more.  Hell, I wasn’t going to pay to watch at home either.  But I still cared.  I was still a Sabres fan.

so, today….. I realized this morning that I haven’t felt compelled to watch something else at all so far this season.  I still respect my sleep schedule, which means I stop watching after 2 periods, but it is not because I am going to watch something more compelling.  Before the Pegulas ruined this team I watched the game and lost sleep on weeknights.  Now, I watch, but I won’t lose sleep over the games.  I’m still a fan.

The process of winning back this fanbase is going to take time.  Even the most devoted of fans lost interest. You can be a dick and proclaim that maybe we should be fans of an AHL team, but the reality is, the Pegulas did this and it is going to take more than 40 or so games to get formerly devoted fans back to being fanatics again.  It may take repeat playoff seasons.  This is what happens when you choose a plan that decimates a team for a decade.  Remember, the Pegulas turned their backs on us first.

I am a fan.  Your condescension can get put in a piss bucket.  You spend your money how you see fit.  I’ll put mine in a better investment until I am convinced that this isn’t a 2018 win streak.

Dam s...

[tom webster]

The team needs to grow back their season ticket base. You will never get a huge walk up crowd to a weekday game in the Fall or Winter when there is huge inventory for weekend games. Season ticket holders will limit availability and they will sell games they don’t want below cost if they have to, in effect “papering” the house.

I am not privy to the numbers but I’ll bet total single game buys are not much lower then they were when the team was getting 18K plus. 

[sabrefanday1]

One can also assume that I am not alone when I say that I miss going to my beloved Sabres' games, but being Canadian, I simply cannot afford to get a passport that I now need to cross into the US, and also the price of tickets and of course gas which is absurd wherever you go. I know for sure that there use to be lots of us from Canada coming down, but I am sure many are in the same boat as I am  not being able to afford al the related cost of driving down for a game.  I miss going...